Roguelikes are LIKE ROGUE

[jofadda]

Can we collectively stop tagging games that arent /like Rogue/ as "Roguelikes?"
This is rogue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(video_game)
Is your game predicated on fast paced action gameplay? Then its not a Roguelike as Rogue is by nature, by gameplay and by mechanics a strategy game.

Does your game eschew or lessen the impact of permadeath and/or procedural generation? Then its highly likely not to be a Roguelike, Rogue is a game of permadeath wherein the games very layout was predicated on procedural generation

Does your game have permadeath(partial or full) and/or procedural generation but lacks any and all other similarity to rogue? Use the damn rogueLITE tag instead.

Hell, one could say Antyoy, Battle for Wesnoth and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ CIV are more like Rogue than half the games tagged as such here. They are not roguelikes as they're specifically predicated on unit management and as such the permadeath aspects of each dont matter.

[ReBoot]

That's rather anal-retentive. See it this way: "Like Rogue" can be described as "Capturing the core concepts of Rogue".
See it this way: A "Rogue clone" would indeed offend your definition as it's not a friggin' clone then!

[jofadda]

引用自 ReBoot：

That's rather anal-retentive. See it this way: "Like Rogue" can be described as "Capturing the core concepts of Rogue".
See it this way: A "Rogue clone" would indeed offend your definition as it's not a friggin' clone then!

Let me put it this way:
Dungeons of Dredmor is a roguelike. Got that yea? Good.
Nethack is a roguelike. Still with me? Good.
Caves of Qud is a Roguelike. Still following? Good
you'll have to go off of steam for this one but:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is a roguelike. Still with me? good.

Then compare games like that to The Binding of Isaac(not a roguelike, wrongfully tagged. Its a twin stick shooter with minimal things in common with rogue)
Risk of rain 1 and 2(first ones a sidescrolling shooter, second one is a bloody third person shooter, neither of these are roguelikes)
Domina(its a gladitorial management sim NOT a roguelike)

Did you play one lot of games with a complete genre then a hodgepodge of random disconnected game types or did you play one lot of equally similar titles?

The first lot are roguelikes, the second lot is a bastardisation of the term that ignores Rogue in its entirety. If a game does not play like the namesake of its genre it should not be in that genre

Tagging the second lot of games "roguelikes" is like Tagging the Super Mario series "metroidvania games." Its like calling a clidesdale horse a ruddy canine. Its like unironically stating "Cory in the House is my favorite anime"
Its just not accurate.

[Zekiran]

The ones that anger me most are those who describe their game as "rogue lite"

.... That's not even remotely a thing.

[jofadda]

引用自 Zekiran：

The ones that anger me most are those who describe their game as "rogue lite"

.... That's not even remotely a thing.

I prefer them using roguelite to roguelike when they're not "like Rogue" tbh. If your game has pseudo-permadeath and RNG use the roguelite tag.

If your game actually is "like Rogue" in gameplay, in mechanics, in feel and it's actually similar to rogue in some large degree that surpasses what I've come to call the "generic TBS" test then I take no issue.
However if your game is so unlike rogue that a myriad of other genres fit it moreso than the "roguelike" tag then please for the sake of preservation of what roguelikes actually are use the damn roguelite tag!

[Kargor]

The term is "rogue-like", not "rogue-clone".

Just stop expecting you can look at tags and know the game. You cannot.

[Zefar]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike

There they mention The Binding of Isac and Rogue Legacy. Both are similar to Risk of Rain in the way that it's more action packed.

I don't know why you have such a beef with Risk of rain 1 and 2 being classified as rogue like because that's what they are. They are also both awesome.

Permadeath
Random generated maps(Not in the second one)
Lots of random items to pick up with random effects.

It's like a Rogue like game.

[Gus the Crocodile]

I was happily tagging things like Isaac roguelikelikes because it's a great term, but Steam is having none of it apparently. Their loss.

[jofadda]

引用自 Zefar：

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike

There they mention The Binding of Isac and Rogue Legacy. Both are similar to Risk of Rain in the way that it's more action packed.

I don't know why you have such a beef with Risk of rain 1 and 2 being classified as rogue like because that's what they are. They are also both awesome.

Permadeath
Random generated maps(Not in the second one)
Lots of random items to pick up with random effects.

It's like a Rogue like game.

None of those are like Rogue. Civ is more like Rogue than the games you listed. Is Civ then a roguelike too? No. Battle for Wesnoth is more like Rogue, does it fit? No. Antyoy is again more akin to rogue than those titles is it a roguelike? No.

Roguelike actually means "Like Rogue." The genre stood as I am describing it for 20+ years. What you're describing is a bastardisation of the genre to the point it'd be akin to calling "Mario" a "metroidvania"

[jofadda]

引用自 Gus the Crocodile：

I was happily tagging things like Isaac roguelikelikes because it's a great term, but Steam is having none of it apparently. Their loss.

TBH I tag games like that as "not a roguelike" cause they just not like rogue, the issue is it takes a substantial amount of people using a tag for it to show. I'm also flagging the roguelike tag on those games because its simply invalid

[jofadda]

引用自 Kargor：

The term is "rogue-like", not "rogue-clone".

Just stop expecting you can look at tags and know the game. You cannot.

<Sarcasm> Ahh yes dungeon crawl stone soup is totally a clone of Rogue despite the different races, classes and the fact that DCSS has about 20 times the amount of races/classes Rogue had. Neoscavenger is totally a clone of rogue despite the fact that a hex grid completely changes the strategy of the game. Jeff Liats "POWDER" is totally a clone of rogue despite different enemy types different dungeon layout a different magic system and the inability to move diagonally.</sarcasm>

In reality all of those games are roguelikes, as they are like Rogue without being exact carbon copies. What you want to call a "rogue-clone" is a roguelike as it doesnt mirror Rogue quite enough to be called a "rogue-clone"

What you want to call a roguelike is a damn rogueLITE.

[jofadda]

引用自 Zefar：

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike

There they mention The Binding of Isac and Rogue Legacy. Both are similar to Risk of Rain in the way that it's more action packed.

I don't know why you have such a beef with Risk of rain 1 and 2 being classified as rogue like because that's what they are. They are also both awesome.

Permadeath
Random generated maps(Not in the second one)
Lots of random items to pick up with random effects.

It's like a Rogue like game.

Also:
http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation

http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

https://www.giantbomb.com/roguelike/3015-1065/

https://www.greenmangaming.com/blog/what-is-a-roguelike/

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Roguelike

your definition is wrong.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Wrong according to some people, who nobody else is obligated to agree with anyway. Genre is subjective, as ever. We're not exactly in ISO technical standard territory here.

[Cherrycat]

引用自 jofadda：

Can we collectively stop tagging games that arent /like Rogue/ as "Roguelikes?"
This is rogue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(video_game)
Is your game predicated on fast paced action gameplay? Then its not a Roguelike as Rogue is by nature, by gameplay and by mechanics a strategy game.

Does your game eschew or lessen the impact of permadeath and/or procedural generation? Then its highly likely not to be a Roguelike, Rogue is a game of permadeath wherein the games very layout was predicated on procedural generation

Does your game have permadeath(partial or full) and/or procedural generation but lacks any and all other similarity to rogue? Use the damn rogueLITE tag instead.

Hell, one could say Antyoy, Battle for Wesnoth and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ CIV are more like Rogue than half the games tagged as such here. They are not roguelikes as they're specifically predicated on unit management and as such the permadeath aspects of each dont matter.

Tags are useless, they are user generated and if enough trolls push bad tags they can add any tag they want to any game they want.

[Crazy Tiger]

Roguelike is merely a term to indicate that the gameplay shares some of the core values of Rogue. Permadeath and randomness are the most important factors, together with a strong emphasis on the gameplay above graphics. "Doing a run" is what you'd say about playing a Roguelike.

Binding of Isaac certainly falls within that.

引用自 jofadda：

Also:
http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation

http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

https://www.giantbomb.com/roguelike/3015-1065/

https://www.greenmangaming.com/blog/what-is-a-roguelike/

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Roguelike

your definition is wrong.

Funny, from the very first link you post: "Roguelike" refers to a genre, not merely "like-Rogue".

Have you btw read those links? You'd see that Binding of Isaac certainly falls within roguelike territory.

[jofadda]

引用自 Crazy Tiger：

Roguelike is merely a term to indicate that the gameplay shares some of the core values of Rogue. Permadeath and randomness are the most important factors, together with a strong emphasis on the gameplay above graphics. "Doing a run" is what you'd say about playing a Roguelike.

Binding of Isaac certainly falls within that.

引用自 jofadda：

Also:
http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation

http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

https://www.giantbomb.com/roguelike/3015-1065/

https://www.greenmangaming.com/blog/what-is-a-roguelike/

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Roguelike

your definition is wrong.

Funny, from the very first link you post: "Roguelike" refers to a genre, not merely "like-Rogue".

Have you btw read those links? You'd see that Binding of Isaac certainly falls within roguelike territory.

Binding of isaac is not a roguelike. It does not rely on strategy in the same way Rogue and roguelikes do. And yes I read those links. how very convenient you left out the next line of the excerpt from the berlin interpretation link

"The genre is represented by its canon. The canon for Roguelikes is ADOM, Angband, Crawl, Nethack, and Rogue." Nice try.