Steam doesn't sell games in Australia... (Valve vs ACCC)

[Ken]

http://games.on.net/2015/10/valve-accc-lol-come-on/

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/10/valves-court-showdown-with-the-accc-delayed-until-march-2016/

"Valve Corporation does not admit that it carried on business in Australia although it admits that it has made available to Australian Consumers online access to use video games through Steam Client pursuant to the terms of a Steam Subscriber Agreement."

"Valve Corporation denies that it supplied “goods” within the meaning of “consumer goods” in s 2(1) of the Australian Consumer Law. It says that it supplied “online access to video games via a subscription service”. It says that this is a “service” within s 2(1) of the Australian Consumer Law so that the consumer guarantee of acceptable quality in s 54 does not apply."

The things they will do to avoid paying their fair share of tax, and yet still price gouge our market...disgraceful.

[Start_Running]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย gallifrey:

Sorry - can't let that last one stand. Firstly there is little movement between classes. If you're born poor you are likely to die poor and that situation is currently ossifying.

And yet you can rise out of your class in the system as opposed to pretty much ever other system wherein you are literally and legally/societally confined to your class. Go to India sometime, they still have the remnants of their olde Caste system and you get the weirdest brickwalls if youy dare trying to even so much as marry someoine above or below your standing.

Also the USA with the largest health spend on the face of the planet actually has a substantially shorter life expectancies than most other comparable nations. The difference becomes even more emphatic when comparing the poorest with the poorest.

True but the US has also the largest percentage of centenarians than any other country percentage wise. The average life expectancy may be shorter but your chances of beating said life expectancy are much higher. Also Immigration and emmigration tend to skew figures and cause and effect quite a bit.

Better solution ? Arguable. Different solution. Definitely. A lot of China's industries are still state (or Red Army) owned. Cuba even more so. Germany is a typical European mix of state and private enterprise. As are other less well performing European economies.

ANd they all have their own problems. The Chinese beuracracy is legendary for it's atrociousness and the outright corruption. Cuba, well let's put it this way. I've spent a fair a mount of time in cuba. IT has it's ups but it has it's downs and again in both cases you still have the dividing classes. Except the divvision is not so much personal wealth as it is who you know and who you are related to.

France 1789 is a rather convincing example that economic growth of which the benefits were primarily received by a very small proportion of society is not conducive to a stable society.
S.x.

But Can you say France was any different from it's neightbhors at the time? And remember what did they eventually replace it with?

As said. Different systems yes, nbetter systems... that's a problem. What's better is a mixture of uunique situation. Population size, ethinic make up , religion, culture, resources, political alliances and tension.

[Start_Running]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Fayde:

If there's a new way
I'll be the first in line...
...But it better work this time...

It will work untiul someone finds the exploits. Not system is without exploits and we humans are hardwired to find these exploits.

[Unexpected]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Astori Heichalot:

AUS government put taxes on digital goods sold by Valve in Australia,
but Aussies still buy games from Valve despite all that,

sooo.... whats the problem again..?

so basically it's like australian rules brazilian taxes? brazil's government has a similar digital goods tax that raises prices to the roof

[Unexpected]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย gallifrey:

But my prediction is over the next thirty years there will be substantial trouble over this issue - and it will make the present Occupy protests seem gentile in comparison.

S.x.

gentile?

[Gallifrey - CSSC Gaming Founder]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Gas mask TV thief:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย gallifrey:

But my prediction is over the next thirty years there will be substantial trouble over this issue - and it will make the present Occupy protests seem gentile in comparison.

S.x.

gentile?

Sorry genteel. My bad.

S.x.

[UberNoodle]

I think that businesses should have to pay all the tax and do all the things that lay people say they should after they've looked in their hearts, read something on Google or most convincingly, appealed to common sense. That sounds like a way to do things.

[Clan Wolf]

Duno what is happening with that appeal....anyway just briefly what got them into trouble is operating in that uber style that requires unique regulation per country. This happens because steam operates in the grey market.

Also Valve no bosses approach, meaning there is no oversight and turns out there is not many people that can really work that way. They probably did know it was going to happen, suing is inevitable for big companys.

I'm sure their legal counsel would of just assured them the fine wouldn't be that big of a deal. But who knows with Valve, they often know more then they let on.

It was funny of them to truly annoy the Judge/s with their defense arguments.
For something that was fixed in 2014 and still fighting in court in 2016 and ongoing.
No one cares ACCC. you doushwads.

[username12121]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Clan Wolf:

Duno what is happening with that appeal....anyway just briefly what got them into trouble is operating in that uber style that requires unique regulation per country. This happens because steam operates in the grey market.

Also Valve no bosses approach, meaning there is no oversight and turns out there is not many people that can really work that way. They probably did know it was going to happen, suing is inevitable for big companys.

I'm sure their legal counsel would of just assured them the fine wouldn't be that big of a deal. But who knows with Valve, they often know more then they let on.

It was funny of them to truly annoy the Judge/s with their defense arguments.
For something that was fixed in 2014 and still fighting in court in 2016 and ongoing.
No one cares ACCC. you doushwads.

Don't underestimate what was achieved by the ACCC's action. Some people argue that Valve would have brought in refunds out of the goodness of their own hearts and just needed the time to get around to it. You can believe that if you like, but one thing we do know is that Valve didn't bring in refunds until after charges were brought against them by the ACCC. The fact that the courtcase has gone on for some years after that point in time is just the way courtcases go.

[Start_Running]

But Valve would have. See the little fact people misunderstand about that case is that it wasn't not giving refunds that got Valve in trouble. The Australian courts actually upheld all the refund denials saying Valve was within their rights to refuse those refunds.

What got Valve in trouble is they said that you couldn't ask for one. Which was probably more just someone forgetting to uypdate the boiler plate.

We were going to get refunds regardless. The biggest challenge was getting the publishers on board with that. Such things take time.