Why does almost all "Female Protagonist"-games suck??

[Miles_Umbrae]

I mean, if they wanted to promote Female Protagonists to "prove that females are just as capable", then WHY OH WHY do they only make games that suck so extremely much both in quality and in story!?!
Isn't that counter-productive to the fight that Feminists wanted in the gaming-community??

[Miles_Umbrae]

Originally posted by ILikePie:

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

Did I say the games were bad because they had a female main character?
Did I say that ALL games with female main characters are bad?
Read what is written _BEFORE_ you get offended and make accusations people...

Why such hostility? I'm just asking a simple question. You said most are bad, but you didn't specify which. How am I supposed to know if the original tomb raiders fall into the most category or not?

This is also awful ironic because it seems to me that YOU are the one making accusations here.

And what does asking me to list all games that does NOT fall under the meaning of "almost all" add to the conversation?
What does it matter to know exactly which games with a Female Protagonist are crap quality- and story-vise and which are not?

[Miles_Umbrae]

Originally posted by Gankuskhan:

You can do lady uncharted, where you play as drake's sister in tomb raider. Thats a good lady winner game.

You even use a bow to kill rabbits.

Yeah, but it is not a game with only a Female Protagonist, which is what the tag is used for here on Steam, and which is what Feminists demans more of.

[Miles_Umbrae]

Originally posted by CharlestONE:

People just tend not to associate male protagonists with games that suck because male protagonists games are the norm. Since male protagonists are the norm, we don't typically associate that aspect with sucky games.We typicall subconciously disassociate the male gender from a game that sucks.

What support do you have for those claims?
What support do you have that gamers make that difference between male and female protagonists?
What support do you have that gamers have EVER cared about if they play as a male or female main character?

[HLCinSC]

Originally posted by CharlestONE:

It just appears that way. Out of games with a sole protagonists, most are male. Most games are not great. For every game that sucks featuring only a female protagonist you could probably name ten games that suck with a male protagonists. People just tend not to associate male protagonists with games that suck because male protagonists games are the norm. Since female only protagonist games appear far less they stand out more than their male counterparts. Since male protagonists are the norm, we don't typically associate that aspect with sucky games.We typicall subconciously disassociate the male gender from a game that sucks.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

What support do you have for those claims?

I admit it is annecdotal, but I think most would say it is true. I mean if we want to be scientific about it, you and I could go through steam's 7000 game and find all the ones that only have a female or male protagonist then find the average user and metacritic score for female vs. male games, but I honestly don't care about it enough that's why I made the statement Fr every bad female game I could probably find 10 bad make games.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

What support do you have that gamers make that difference between male and female protagonists?

Sorry I'm not understanding what you are asking with that question

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

What support do you have that gamers have EVER cared about if they play as a male or female main character?

It is more annecdotal, but I am sure I can find some examples of games females wish they could play as their own sex, kind of like now how many games their have a romantic element are asked to include GLBT characters or how some gamers want characters tthey can select or make closer to their own race. If gamers didn't care about being able to play as the sex of their choice we would not see them rising in big game like the Mass Effect or Fallout series.


NOTE EDITED DUE TO FAIL AT PROPER FORMATTING.

[Miles_Umbrae]

Originally posted by Walsh:

Metroid, bayonetta, Tomb raider, Portal, Resident evil, TRANSISTOR. w0t?

I'm talking about the games that came to be as a result of the Feminist-outrage started by Feminists like Anita Sarkeesian.
I'm talking about the games marketed as revolutionary because they have a Female Main Character.
I'm talking about the games created to cater to the Feminists demands.
I'm talking about the games that has been released under the tag of "Female Protagonist" by companies to basically say "Please don't call us woman-haters!! Look! We made a game with a Female Main Character to play, so please don't hate us...".
I'm talking about the games made by indi-devs that think they are edgy because they won't "fall in line with the patriarchal games-industry that wants to portray women as weak"...

Samus Aran, Bayonetta, Lara Croft, Chell, and the myriad of playable female characters in the Resident Evil series have all been talked about by Feminists as negative portrayals of women by either needing constant help or by being portrayed as excessively and "un-womanly" sexual.
Red, the playable character in Transistor, proves what gamers(male and female alike) have been saying to Feminists from day, that we do not care if the Main Character is male, female, or some genderless slug, as long as the game is well made and the story is intriguing .. but that game and others like it have been completely ignored as if saying that it is irrelevant...

[LittleDoYouKnow]

It's always a case to case basis

[The Questing Bunny]

Feminists are blind. They just want to pretend like there has always been a problem, when there has not. Does anyone remember Alis Landale of Phantasy Star? Even back on the Master System we had leading ladies kicking ass and saving the universe. There has never been a female protagonist problem. Maybe they just can't handle the fact that they joined the hobby late, don't want to do any real research regarding the subject, and take over what may not have been perfect, but has always been fine the way it is in male and female representation.

OP, I am convinced you are simply looking to piss people off right now. You want people that disagree with you to scream at.

[Miles_Umbrae]

Originally posted by CharlestONE:

Originally posted by CharlestONE:

It just appears that way. Out of games with a sole protagonists, most are male. Most games are not great. For every game that sucks featuring only a female protagonist you could probably name ten games that suck with a male protagonists. People just tend not to associate male protagonists with games that suck because male protagonists games are the norm. Since female only protagonist games appear far less they stand out more than their male counterparts. Since male protagonists are the norm, we don't typically associate that aspect with sucky games.We typicall subconciously disassociate the male gender from a game that sucks.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

What support do you have for those claims?
I admit it is annecdotal, but I think most would say it is true. I mean if we want to be scientific about it, you and I could go through steam's 7000 game and find all the ones that only have a female or male protagonist then find the average user and metacritic score for female vs. male games, but I honestly don't care about it enough that's why I made the statement Fr every bad female game I could probably find 10 bad make games.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

What support do you have that gamers make that difference between male and female protagonists?

Sorry I'm not understanding what you are asking with that question

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

What support do you have that gamers have EVER cared about if they play as a male or female main character?

It is more annecdotal, but I am sure I can find some examples of games females wish they could play as their own sex, kind of like now how many games their have a romantic element are asked to include GLBT characters or how some gamers want characters tthey can select or make closer to their own race. If gamers didn't care about being able to play as the sex of their choice we would not see them rising in big game like the Mass Effect or Fallout series.

First of all, I edited your comment to highligh the fact that I was asking questions specific to the segments I left in the quotation-box, so including your full comment while taking out the edited version I responded to is misleading and dishonest.

Secondly, it is good that you admit that it is anecdotal.
Here's the thing, games are like books or movies, they are someone elses creating, someone elses attempt at telling a story, what gives you, me, or any one else the right to dictate to for example George R. R. Martin or J. K. Rowling how to write their protagonist, that their protagonists MUST be of this or that gender or sexuality.
If someone doesn't like that so many games have primarily male playable characters, then vote with your wallet, it's a free market, no one is forcing anyone to buy something against their will. And making demands of how someone should create their work of fiction is the way of tyrants and dictators.
..not to mention the fact that the vast majority of games with male protagonists give the playable character less personality and backstory than a doorknob...

Thirdly, if you had looked at how I had edited your comment you might have been able to understand my question.

Fourth, yes, you bring up even more anecdotal "evidence", all being proven untrue by the #NotYourShield campaign.
The people of color or of varying sexualities or genderdescriptions that also consider themselves gamers does not care about the gender, race, or sexuality of the main character, because they do NOT want games to be a reflection of their reality, they want to be immersed in another world, a world of their choosing, where they can be that futuristic super-soldier that doesn't force a personality onto the players experience, or where they can be that medieval thief that can steal the clothes off of the person wearing them...
The people complaining about the lack of option for gender, race, or sexuality are people that doesn't actually care about playing games in the first place...
How do I know this?
Simple. There has been 15+ years where people could have made their voices heard about their wish to have options or more "representation", but no one has ever said anything.
It is only these past 3 - 4 years where it has been an issue, an issue that conveniently started more or less at the same time as Feminists like Anita Sarkeesian started making a stink about "Video-games are sexist"...

[Miles_Umbrae]

Originally posted by Mama Dragon:

Feminists are blind. They just want to pretend like there has always been a problem, when there has not. Does anyone remember Alis Landale of Phantasy Star? Even back on the Master System we had leading ladies kicking ass and saving the universe. There has never been a female protagonist problem. Maybe they just can't handle the fact that they joined the hobby late, don't want to do any real research regarding the subject, and take over what may not have been perfect, but has always been fine the way it is in male and female representation.

OP, I am convinced you are simply looking to piss people off right now. You want people that disagree with you to scream at.

A tiny correction there Mama Dragon; Feminists have not joined the hobby, they just want to control it.
Back in their school-years they found Gamers(nerds and geeks as we were called by them back then) to be disgusting losers that they kept bullying all through school, and now they have come back to keep bully us after school...

[JJ, Professional Fool]

What is the actual point of this thread? Feels about gay and lesbian infuence? Being bullied for playing electronic stimuli? Feminists crying for equality? I thought this was about finding games with female prots, and its become a typical reddit page. Who cares? At the end of the day, a game is a game. Social media has diluted the minds of the masses, and natural selection is a thing. Unpopular opinions aside, what flag we carry and what rebel yell we spew is a personal agenda, and is pointless in the grand scale.

[HLCinSC]

Sorry for the messed up formatting earlier.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

First of all, I edited your comment to highligh the fact that I was asking questions specific to the segments I left in the quotation-box, so including your full comment while taking out the edited version I responded to is misleading and dishonest.

I added it back in because I thought the first part was helped preface and explain what I was about to say.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

Secondly, it is good that you admit that it is anecdotal.

Yes I feel it is just as annecdotal as your post title "Why does almost all "Female Protagonist"-games suck??". I gave an example for how either of us could prove our claims with large amounts of data. If you have done or found other research to prove your claim empirically, I'm all ears.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

Here's the thing, games are like books or movies, they are someone elses creating, someone elses attempt at telling a story, what gives you, me, or any one else the right to dictate to for example George R. R. Martin or J. K. Rowling how to write their protagonist, that their protagonists MUST be of this or that gender or sexuality.
If someone doesn't like that so many games have primarily male playable characters, then vote with your wallet, it's a free market, no one is forcing anyone to buy something against their will. And making demands of how someone should create their work of fiction is the way of tyrants and dictators.
..not to mention the fact that the vast majority of games with male protagonists give the playable character less personality and backstory than a doorknob...

I think we misunderstood each other because I agree with this completely. It is their art and it is their choice. If they want to include things like race sex or gender that's up to them whether they make that decision because the want to or in the search for more profits. I don't believe in forcing anything on acontent creator.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

Thirdly, if you had looked at how I had edited your comment you might have been able to understand my question.

I did but I am unsure of what you are asking that I think users differenitiate between male/female protagonists.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

Fourth, yes, you bring up even more anecdotal "evidence", all being proven untrue by the #NotYourShield campaign.
The people of color or of varying sexualities or genderdescriptions that also consider themselves gamers does not care about the gender, race, or sexuality of the main character, because they do NOT want games to be a reflection of their reality, they want to be immersed in another world, a world of their choosing, where they can be that futuristic super-soldier that doesn't force a personality onto the players experience, or where they can be that medieval thief that can steal the clothes off of the person wearing them...
The people complaining about the lack of option for gender, race, or sexuality are people that doesn't actually care about playing games in the first place...
How do I know this?
Simple. There has been 15+ years where people could have made their voices heard about their wish to have options or more "representation", but no one has ever said anything.
It is only these past 3 - 4 years where it has been an issue, an issue that conveniently started more or less at the same time as Feminists like Anita Sarkeesian started making a stink about "Video-games are sexist"...

Well video games are a reltively new medium. There were campaigns and battles to get African americans and women into leading movie roles. Pretty much the same with tv. I love lucy started it all as she forced her show on air due to a contractural clause and it became a hit. When Mary Tyler Moore was rumored to be canceled people rallied to keep the female lead show on in a medium dominated by men. Hell there's enough demand today for people that want relateable content that we have tv stations like Lifetime, Oxygen, Oprah's channel, or back to race BET or Univision/telemundo. If everyone was fine with the status quo then those would of never sprung up.

[Miles_Umbrae]

Originally posted by LittleDoYouKnow:

It's always a case to case basis

No, it's not on a case-by-case basis, because I am questioning what good the tag "Female Protagonist" has brought seeing as most games with it has been of a very poor quality and/or having an extremely lacking story...

[Miles_Umbrae]

Originally posted by Gankuskhan:

What is the actual point of this thread? Feels about gay and lesbian infuence? Being bullied for playing electronic stimuli? Feminists crying for equality? I thought this was about finding games with female prots, and its become a typical reddit page. Who cares? At the end of the day, a game is a game. Social media has diluted the minds of the masses, and natural selection is a thing. Unpopular opinions aside, what flag we carry and what rebel yell we spew is a personal agenda, and is pointless in the grand scale.

If you compare this to reddit then I guess you haven't been on reddit much...
This thread is me putting words to something that has been bothering me for some time; the fact that most games with the tag "Female Protagonist" are of very poor quality and/or has a very lackluster story...
Because for feminists trying to defend these games the way Anita Sarkeesian did with Sword & Sworcery, they are basically shooting themselves in the foot and proving that they did not care about gaming in the first place, and all their attacks and threats was for nothing...

[JJ, Professional Fool]

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

Originally posted by Gankuskhan:

What is _blah_

Nah, im on the nail, Social justice blah blah, As soon as you wrote anita, i wipe my hands of this. The only folks who care about such topics are those silly enough to follow them from the source. Its not news worthy, its never mentioned outside social media sites and youtube, its internet bickering and finger pointing with this desire to over analyze and justify the smallest things. Before gaming, it was sexism and violence in music, then it was sexism and violence in tv and films, and before that im sure there was a finger to point elsewhere. Thus feminism in its entirety, 3rd wave, is a hilarious joke. And now we got people wondering why women prot games cant carry a candle to that of male prot games? Its only american's who have nothing better to do with themselves so they take a cause lawmakers cant touch or care to mess with. Pixels and the people who make them. This thread is a farce. And its just more social justice warriors looking for answers to pointless and stupid questions.

But hey, could just be me. Of every heavy issues on this planet, this is worth investing.

[Miles_Umbrae]

Originally posted by CharlestONE:

Sorry for the messed up formatting earlier.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

First of all, I edited your comment to highligh the fact that I was asking questions specific to the segments I left in the quotation-box, so including your full comment while taking out the edited version I responded to is misleading and dishonest.

I added it back in because I thought the first part was helped preface and explain what I was about to say.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

Secondly, it is good that you admit that it is anecdotal.

Yes I feel it is just as annecdotal as your post title "Why does almost all "Female Protagonist"-games suck??". I gave an example for how either of us could prove our claims with large amounts of data. If you have done or found other research to prove your claim empirically, I'm all ears.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

Here's the thing, games are like books or movies, they are someone elses creating, someone elses attempt at telling a story, what gives you, me, or any one else the right to dictate to for example George R. R. Martin or J. K. Rowling how to write their protagonist, that their protagonists MUST be of this or that gender or sexuality.
If someone doesn't like that so many games have primarily male playable characters, then vote with your wallet, it's a free market, no one is forcing anyone to buy something against their will. And making demands of how someone should create their work of fiction is the way of tyrants and dictators.
..not to mention the fact that the vast majority of games with male protagonists give the playable character less personality and backstory than a doorknob...

I think we misunderstood each other because I agree with this completely. It is their art and it is their choice. If they want to include things like race sex or gender that's up to them whether they make that decision because the want to or in the search for more profits. I don't believe in forcing anything on acontent creator.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

Thirdly, if you had looked at how I had edited your comment you might have been able to understand my question.

I did but I am unsure of what you are asking that I think users differenitiate between male/female protagonists.

Originally posted by Miles_Umbrae:

Fourth, yes, you bring up even more anecdotal "evidence", all being proven untrue by the #NotYourShield campaign.
The people of color or of varying sexualities or genderdescriptions that also consider themselves gamers does not care about the gender, race, or sexuality of the main character, because they do NOT want games to be a reflection of their reality, they want to be immersed in another world, a world of their choosing, where they can be that futuristic super-soldier that doesn't force a personality onto the players experience, or where they can be that medieval thief that can steal the clothes off of the person wearing them...
The people complaining about the lack of option for gender, race, or sexuality are people that doesn't actually care about playing games in the first place...
How do I know this?
Simple. There has been 15+ years where people could have made their voices heard about their wish to have options or more "representation", but no one has ever said anything.
It is only these past 3 - 4 years where it has been an issue, an issue that conveniently started more or less at the same time as Feminists like Anita Sarkeesian started making a stink about "Video-games are sexist"...

Well video games are a reltively new medium. There were campaigns and battles to get African americans and women into leading movie roles. Pretty much the same with tv. I love lucy started it all as she forced her show on air due to a contractural clause and it became a hit. When Mary Tyler Moore was rumored to be canceled people rallied to keep the female lead show on in a medium dominated by men. Hell there's enough demand today for people that want relateable content that we have tv stations like Lifetime, Oxygen, Oprah's channel, or back to race BET or Univision/telemundo. If everyone was fine with the status quo then those would of never sprung up.

You are clearly not reading what I write, because you completely ignore everything and reply to things I have not stated.
So unless you are willing to actually read what I write instead of spouting of literal nonsense then you have nothing to contribute here.
Also, I suggest you read up on the "controversy" surrounding 'I love Lucy' which you brought up as an example, because you clearly do not know what it was about.