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So the M1 didn't come out in 2013 so that plot point makes zeros sense dude. As does your claim for metal releasing 1 year earlier than it did.
Also OpenGL while not perfect has been competitive with DX for almost all of its existence especially in the 2010s as proven time and time again by devs like Id.
The only reason Apple wanted to get rid of OGL and use their own API was to slowly drive out the ability for Nvidia cards to work on their systems. It was also the driving force behind deprecating OGL instead of supporting newer versions. And if that Nvidia v Apple feud doesn't make sense to you than it shows how little you know so maybe look it up
You also spend a cringy amount of time trying to justify not having Vulkan as if that would make any sense. Theres ZERO reasons not to support Vulkan. None. They've had plenty of time and even the new ARM chips coming out AFTER THE M1 support Vulkan.
You also speak as if there can only be one graphics API supported my Apple.
So far you've come up with ZERO reasons as to why Apple can't support Vulkan. Its an arbitrary choice.
Then you claim theres no games being made for Linux? Dude, theres more AA and AAA games being made native Linux than native M1.
Total war war hammer 3, men of war 2, The Stanley parable ultra deluxe, Selaco, hearts of iron 4, Victoria 3, Banana (literally one of the most popular games right now is on Linux and Windows but not Mac), Jackbox party 10 (and all of them I think), Rome total war remastered, Pools..... I guess. People seem to like it, TMNT Shredders revenge, baldur's gate Dark Alliance 2, return to monkey island, etc, etc. And thats just a few from the last 2 or 3 years, the tomb raiders, hitman games, Civ, total war, xcom, Dirt, and saints row series to name a few have had constant Linux releases.
On top of literally every Indie game being released and crap loads released earlier have native Linux builds.
Then theres the fact that devs don't even have to make a native build as Windows games just work in Linux. All they have to do is not block Linux with an arbitrary choice.
That level of developmental ease does not exist on Mac.
You again are trying to blame Valve for Apples choices and are demanding Valve start RnDing a built in tool for a CLOSED PLATFORM.
Sorry, that makes zero sense from a technical standpoint as well as a commercial one since there is FAR less machines that could use it in the Mac world compared to machines that can use Proton.
Want change? Take it up with Apple, or even you're self. You bought into a walled garden this is what that looks like.
Wow, what a worthless wall of text. I'm going to keep my reply short.
Its not devs who have a hard time spending $1000 on a Mac its the consumer. That WHOOSHED right past your head. Or maybe you just head what you wanted.
Thats alot of money for a mid range gaming PC, gamers aren't likely going to drop their performance like that for that price when a similar priced PC build destroys it.
Vulkan DOES NOT HAVE TO PREDATE METAL TO BE USED. This argument makes ZERO SENSE, they had 8 YEARS to add Vulcan support yet choose not to.
Also saying "they use GPTK 2 and AVX2" doesn't erase their refusal to support open stanards like Vulkan. Why you even thought that was an argument to be made is beyond me.
Also saying RT extensions only work in 3%~4% of GPUs but metal's works with "all recent Macs" is literally the same thing. You tally the percentage of Macs with that and its going to be in a similar percentage.
And yes Apple blocked Vulkan, their still doing it now. Its blocked until the day they add it.
Also you mention a committee like its a bad thing. Thats how open standards work, its how people get their ideas organized and their voices heard. Apple could LITERALLY join the committee if they wanted.
You also throw that stupid myth out that "vulkan has to support more hardware so its not optimized". Its just as dumb and baseless as the "millions of PC configs/ hundreds of distros" fallacy people throw around.
I know you know little about computers and are new to gaming so I'm going to make this as clear as possible.
Vulkan doesn't support hardware, it does not target hardware. There is no "compromises" made. Its a standard that hardware/software follows not the other way around. That comment shows how little you understand on the matter.
Your whole point is based on you pretending Apple can't support Vulkan when it could have years ago, you claiming a metric ton of shovel ware games on Steam targeting Mac is "amazing", and a crap ton of appeal to authority as a "this point is legit!".
Sorry but if Mac really was so easy and inviting studios wouldn't have to be paid by Apple themselves and then providing free support to get games on their platform.
If Vulkan was so bad it wouldn't be the way Linux plays Windows games better than Windows does, it wouldn't be playing xonotic faster on Asahi Linux on a Mac with better performance than the Mac native version.
Right now I can just install and play a game new or old without much worry at all as the games that don't work on Linux are now in the lower single digit percentages.
This was done by a third party with no official access to the internal workings of Windows or DX. Infact, its randos paid by Valve.
Apple has more than $200 BILLION in cash, is a multi TRILLION dollar company, and literally OWNS the OS and hardware in question.
Stop acting like Apple is some helpless baby and that this is all Valves fault.
If I can install Linux on a phone and use box64 to then use proton to play Windows games with decent performance thanks to randos on the web thenApple can gets off their ass and put in real work.
Theres no reason my Windows games on Linux running through a x86/ARM compatibility layer made by several different randos should have a better performance delta than Apples translation layers for their own platforms.
To be fair tho, Epic Games hasn't made a native update for their Mac client either yet
Whatever it is, just gonna wait with Mac Steam purchases until this case is finally solved.
I usually don’t engage further in discussions that don’t lead anywhere because of people’s rigid opinions despite facts but there are a few things that need to be cleared up here.
Everything you said has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. You didn’t manage to provide any valid reasons for Valve’s inability or unwillingness to release a native Steam client for Apple Silicon, other than making excuses for Valve.
Unfortunately you seem to take this whole discussion personally. Using condescending language, nitpicking and making empty assumptions with a cognitive bias won’t get you far if you want to be taken seriously. You call opposing arguments and facts worthless and stupid myths but yet you don’t provide anything yourself but your highly questionable and personal opinions without any sources. That doesn’t help your credibility much. Despite sounding over-confident your answers contain many errors, misconceptions and contradictions. Here are some of them but I must warn you of another ”wall of text” because of everything you have said here.
1. Considering how much you promote Linux it’s obvious that you’re a Linux gamer. The question that comes to mind then is why do you care about Apple and Mac gaming? You already have your gaming PC, Android phone and Steam deck so what difference does it make to you if Apple supports Vulkan or not? You seem to try to rather be right than have a real use case for Vulkan on Mac; more catholic than the pop so to speak. I have heard very few, if any Mac users complain about the lack of native Vulkan support. All the complaints usually come from those who don’t own/use Macs or even less play games on them, especially hardcore gamers who want to have something to complain about. Are you only here to unconditionally defend Valve because of your love for the company and its products? One could almost believe it’s Gabe himself writing these posts but it’s all right. It’s not the first time I see such an attitude against Mac users and such a dislike of Apple and Mac.
2. About you thinking you ”know” me I can’t say I’m surprised to hear that from a Linux gamer. It’s obvious you’re trying to act as some kind of all-knowing entity with superior knowledge here in Steam’s Multiverse of Madness; The One Above All. In that case all I have to say is ”You know nothing Jon Snow”. With all the different gaming solutions out there the definition of a ”gamer” is so broad nowadays. Your definition seems to only revolve around a Linux gamer with Steam Deck who loves to play CS or Xonotic at 800 fps, or click on Banana. In that case I’m definitely not your type of gamer but again that has nothing to do with Valve’s failure to deliver Steam for AS.
3. Speaking of Xonotic, your claim about Vulkan being faster than Metal because Xonotic runs faster in Asahi Linux on Mac than the macOS version is wrong. Again you provide no source to your claim but the only source I can think of is Asahi Lina who reported this in her blog. She wrote ”Now we can run Xonotic at over 800 FPS, which is faster than macOS on the same hardware (M2 MacBook Air) at around 600*! This proves that open source reverse engineered GPU drivers really have the power to beat Apple’s drivers in real-world scenarios!”.
What she also wrote as a disclaimer was ”Please don’t take the exact number too seriously, as there are other differences too (Xonotic runs under Rosetta on macOS, but it was also rendering at a lower resolution there due to being a non-Retina app). The point is that the results are in the same league, and we will only keep improving our driver going forward!”.
So the Linux version of Xonotic was rendered at a lower resolution and the Mac version was running under Rosetta at a higher resolution. Do I need to say more?
https://asahilinux.org/2023/03/road-to-vulkan/
4. You were talking about developers and their point of view when you wrote ”no sh** less people want to develop for it especially since the barrier of entry is $1000 minimum…”. If you were talking about the consumers it doesn’t make much sense either because as it’s been said many times before people don’t buy a Mac primarily for gaming but Mac buyers like to game. So there’s no ”barrier” since Mac buyers already are willing to pay more for their Macs for many other reasons than gaming. You’re talking as if Apple is trying to attract PC gamers with its ”overpriced and underperforming” products and new gaming strategy. That’s not the case at all. They’re trying to improve the gaming situation for their existing customers and make more game devs realize it’s easier to make money of Mac/iPad/iPhone users now than ever. The ”barrier” is also not $1000 for a MBA M2, it’s $599 for a Mac Mini with 2 more GPU cores and even better performance. With the same logic you could also say PCs are expensive for gaming because consoles are cheaper.
It makes even less sense from the developers point of view because developers don’t care about how much customers pay for HW. That’s irrelevant when they make decisions about porting their games. They look at the market share and the number of potential buyers of their games. With MetalFX many games can now have good performance even on low-end Macs at higher resolutions, but none of this again has anything to do with Valve’s failure to deliver Steam for AS.
5. We have already explained the road map of Metal and Vulkan but you still seem to miss the point on purpose. Alexmaru already explained this but M1 is not the first Apple Silicon so the fact that it didn’t come out in 2013 has nothing to do with the ”plot point”. The first Apple Silicon was A4 in iPhone 4 and first iPad, released in 2010. Apple needed a modern graphics API for both iOS and macOS. Metal 1 was released in June 2014 and in iOS 8 Sep 2014. Vulkan was released in Feb 2016 and in Android 7 Aug 2016.
Did you expect Apple to sit and do nothing for two years waiting for Vulkan to come out? Metal was 2 years ahead of Vulkan. With such a head start there was no reason to put time and resources on supporting another API when Metal was all they needed. Metal was released one year later in macOS so it was iPhone that first got Metal. It’s very simple. Apple needed a modern API, they made one themselves (just like Microsoft) and they didn’t need another one later. Yes, they chose to not put further resources on yet another API like Vulkan. So what?
You also try to praise OpenGL instead of accepting the fact that it was falling behind competition when Apple decided to drop its support. Even id Software dropped its OGL support not much later. Id Tech 6 from 2016 was the last version to use OGL.
6. Your conspiracy theory about the ”only” reason behind Apple’s deprecation of OpenGL and creating Metal is also incorrect. The Apple/Nvidia feud and OpenGL had nothing to do with each other. The feud started long before and one reason was Nvidia Bumpgate, the GPU failure scandal in 2008 where Nvidia refused to extend support costs which made Apple (and others) to pay customers for the failure. Another reason was CUDA. You accuse Apple of blocking open standards but Apple (and others) wanted something that worked with all GPUs but Nvidia wanted everyone to start using CUDA with their own GPUs. They wanted to take over the market with their closed standard. That became a road block for Apple Silicon and Nvidia wasn’t willing to give up CUDA. It is only now CUDA is possible on AMD cards via project ZLUDA. Not even Intel and AMD support ZLUDA themselves officially but again none of this has anything to do with Valve’s failure to deliver Steam for AS.
https://blog.greggant.com/posts/2021/10/13/apple-vs-nvidia-what-happened.html
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/software-allows-cuda-code-to-run-on-amd-and-intel-gpus-without-changes-zluda-is-back-but-both-companies-ditched-it-nixing-future-updates
https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Apple-stop-using-Nvidia-graphics
7. You also in the same way put a lot of effort into trying to turn the Mac, macOS and Apple into a PC, Linux and Dell. I mean it’s not as if people don’t have a choice just as you made your choice. Speaking of Vulkan you seem to be so obsessed with it that you miss even given explanations. You said ”they (Apple) block just about every standard” and I mentioned GPTK 2 with DX12 and AVX2 as a proof of them not blocking EVERY standard. They even used OpenGL before which is an open standard until they needed something else. It still means they don’t actively support Vulkan but it doesn’t mean they block Vulkan or ”every standard” as you’re exaggerating.
Again Vulkan can still interact with Apple GPUs through MoltenVK and Metal. Valve themselves released MoltenVK back in 2018 as open source with the goal of ”enabling developers to bring their games to macOS and iOS with minimal development cost”.
https://store.steampowered.com/oldnews/37575?
In 2022 Mozilla and MoltenVK devs added ”VK_EXT_metal_objects which allows for interacting with Apple Metal API objects, for importing or exporting underlying Metal objects associated with specific Vulkan objects”. I even mentioned Metro Exodus as a Vulkan game on Mac through MoltenVK but you keep ignoring that Vulkan exists on Mac.
Even according to Khronos group there’s not much missing from MoltenVK on macOS compared to Vulkan and in 2022 Apple also released Metal 3 which added a lot of features that brought Vulkan and Metal closer than ever. Even the latest Vulkan 1.3.28 was released at the same time for macOS, Linux and Windows. Sorry to disappoint you but Vulkan exists on Mac very much. It’s up to the game developers to use it, but almost everyone seems to prefer Metal on Apple devices.
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Vulkan-1.3.217
https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK/discussions/1616
https://www.lunarg.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/The-State-of-Vulkan-on-Apple-January-2024.pdf
https://vulkan.lunarg.com/doc/sdk/1.3.283.0/mac/release_notes.html
8. You also don’t seem to understand that nobody is saying Vulkan is ”bad”. It’s just harder to learn and use and requires ”strong graphics programming skills” so the learning curve is higher. Apple has also no use for it with Metal already in place long before. Metal is actually one of the easiest APIs to learn and use according to many programmers. There were/are also other technical differences between macOS and Windows/Linux that made it difficult to implement Vulkan directly in macOS, like this: https://community.khronos.org/t/why-vulkan-is-not-supported-on-apple-platform/7577
9. Your comments about ”Vulkan doesn't support hardware, it does not target hardware.” are incomplete and misleading to say the least. Vulkan is a graphics (and compute) API. 3D programs like games send instructions to the API normally on a high level. The API then sends instructions to the GPU driver which in turn tells the GPU on a low level what to do finally (rendering). Vulkan is not a high-level API though. It’s like Metal a low-level API which takes more direct and explicit control of the GPU and its functions from the driver. It’s even more low-level than Metal.
The Khronos group and Vulkan.org describe all this on their websites. They also admit ”Vulkan is not for everyone” because of the programming difficulties. They literally recommend ”easier” APIs like OpenGL and Direct3D for game development and Vulkan for computer graphics and you say all game developers, engines and Apple should use and support Vulkan?
I quote the Khronos Group themselves: ”The price you pay for these benefits is that you have to work with a significantly more verbose API. Every detail related to the graphics API needs to be set up from scratch by your application, including initial frame buffer creation and memory management for objects like buffers and texture images. The graphics driver will do a lot less hand holding, which means that you will have to do more work in your application to ensure correct behavior. The takeaway message here is that Vulkan is not for everyone. It is targeted at programmers who are enthusiastic about high performance computer graphics, and are willing to put some work in. If you are more interested in game development, rather than computer graphics, then you may wish to stick to OpenGL or Direct3D, which will not be deprecated in favor of Vulkan anytime soon. Another alternative is to use an engine like Unreal Engine or Unity, which will be able to use Vulkan while exposing a much higher level API to you. Vulkan puts more work and responsibility into the application. Not every developer will want to make that extra investment, but those that do so correctly can find power and performance improvements.”
https://docs.vulkan.org/tutorial/latest/00_Introduction.html
https://coreavi.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/CoreAVI-White-Paper-Vulkan-Intro.pdf
10. This brings us to the ”myth” about optimization you mentioned. You seem to ignore that Vulkan game and GPU optimization is a fact. Since the driver is doing less and you have to ensure that ”every detail related to Vulkan” in your application behaves correctly in more direct low-level communication with a great number of different GPUs it can result in ”compromises” and problems. It’s not Vulkan’s fault but It requires a deeper understanding of GPU mechanics from the SW developers instead of GPU and driver makers. We’re talking about GPU synchronization and memory/pipeline management for example. I quote, ”The Vulkan pipeline API is certainly a pain in the ass to deal with. But supporting explicit operations on a wide range of hardware sort of requires it. The problem isn't that the API is bad. The problem is that the ecosystem is bad and complex, and any explicit API around that ecosystem is going to expose the complexity”.
In other words you have to know what you’re doing on a low level or your software will run into problems on different hardware and crash. You can read more here: https://www.reddit.com/r/vulkan/comments/xsrwqn/does_vulkan_really_solve_all_the_problems_opengl/
Here some developers themselves talk about Vulkan being ”miserable”. ”If goal/intent is not making a game, but instead making an engine and/or learning how 3D rendering works, Vulkan/DX12 are great tools to use - since you get to implement most of pipeline steps yourself, you have much easier time understanding what hardware does, how things work under the hood and what potentially can be done with it. For making actual game? No, just no, unless you specifically need something that Vulkan/DX12 can offer (like sharing data between compute and graphics steps, and GPU-level synchronization between game logic and rendering - but then your needs are already too specific for an off-the-shelf engine and you probably know all well what you're doing), there's no point using low level APIs - that's just asking for extra work with likely worse results than taking a shortcut gives.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/179pqq6/vulkan_is_miserable/
”The actual problem is that Vulkan is not designed for humans to write. Literally. Khronos does not want you to write Vulkan, or rather, they don't want you to write it directly. Vulkan was an API designed for writing middleware, not applications.”
https://cohost.org/mcc/post/1406157-i-want-to-talk-about
”Vulkan is on its merry path to have endless list of extensions, so it will eventually match OpenGL's complexity about what code paths to take, with the required cleverness of having to be a graphics programmer, driver developer and compiler developer at the same time. No wonder anyone that wants to stay sane rather picks up a middleware engine instead.”
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22053490
Here’s another developer talking about why they abandoned Vulkan after all the problems on different devices.
https://www.gamedev.net/blogs/entry/2275791-abandoning-vulkan/
Here gamers talk about different experiences on different HW with Vulkan. There can be higher power draw, popup textures and objects, unstable frame rate and bad driver support compared with DirectX.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PCRedDead/comments/107300a/vulkan_vs_dx12_in_2023/
Here is Vulkan doing worse than DX12 in Last of Us Part 1 with RTX 4090 and 2060. The game runs only at 6 fps with Vulkan on 2060 but 50 fps with DX12.
https://youtu.be/gSDtOo94ZnE?si=0fyFZmUh0pZQWDJI
11. There is no ”fallacy” about PC game development and optimization being harder because of the large number of different HW configurations. It’s a fact confirmed by the devs themselves. They have to test their games on a wide range of HW to ensure compatibility and optimization because of all the CPUs, GPUs, motherboards, drivers and other parts from different vendors. I don’t think I even have to mention all the badly optimized and failed PC AAA releases in the recent years that could cripple even the best gaming systems but that’s why many game developers also say it is harder to port games to PC than consoles. As Disparity Games cofounder Jason Stark points out:
”Gamers ask, ‘Why can’t they just release the version they develop with?’ Then, when developers do just release [that] and it’s a buggy mess, they ask: ‘Why are developers so lazy?’ Well, It’s because they released what they had. Think about how many components that make up your setup. Each runs on drivers that may or may not be up to date and interact with one another in complex ways. Throw a game that hasn’t had much troubleshooting into this soup of software and hardware and it’s no wonder tweaking game settings is a foundation of PC gaming. In this context, the difference between a ‘good’ and ‘bad’ PC release can come down to how much time and money you can throw at your title. Bringing a game to consoles is difficult, but at least you know that a bug that happens on your Xbox One is going to happen on every Xbox One.”
https://www.pcgamer.com/why-porting-games-to-pc-is-hard/
https://www.xda-developers.com/things-console-better-than-gaming-pc/
Apple Silicon with its unified architecture is more like consoles with standardized hardware from one and the same vendor, Apple. It also has the advantage of being used in iPhones, iPads and Macs. That’s why it’s easier for devs like Capcom and Ubisoft to bring their games to both macOS and iOS.
12. Again Vulkan is not ”bad” but if it was so easy and superior in every way more than 10-12 engines would support it and DXVK wouldn’t be needed for playing Windows games. Only around 200 games support Vulkan natively according to Khronos site. 200 out of over 156,000 Windows games in the past 8 years! Only 2 from 2024 and 10 from 2023 support Vulkan. Do Capcom’s RE Engine and Resident Evil games support Vulkan natively? No, but they support Metal. Do Hideo Kojima Production’s (Guerrilla Games’) Decima engine and Death Stranding support Vulkan natively? No, but they support Metal.
So how would native Vulkan support on Mac even benefit Mac users/gamers? It’s not as if all devs are just waiting to port their games to Mac but can’t because of lack of native Vulkan support. You’ve said already that Mac has zero appeal to devs and gamers because of its minimal market share and overpriced and underperforming HW. How would Vulkan that is used in only few game engines and 0.1% of all PC games and is much harder to learn and use improve the situation? Even Valve and Linux have to use DXVK and Proton due to the lack of Vulkan support in nearly all games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Game_engines_that_support_Vulkan_(API)
https://www.vulkan.org/made-with-vulkan
13. Interesting that you call all the Mac ports on Steam ”shovel ware” but proudly mention ”Banana” as a prime example of Linux ports and one of the most popular games at the moment lacking a Mac port. A pointless junk game where you click on a Banana image… to get a Banana. If that’s not the very definition of ”shovel ware” I don’t know what is. You can be sure that the number of shovel ware is even higher on Windows/Linux so there is no difference there.
So Resident Evil Village, RE 4, RE 7, RE 2, Death Stranding, Frostpunk 2, AC Shadows, Prince of Perisa: Lost Crown, Control, Dead Island 2, Palworld, Robocop, Riven Remake, Farming Simulator 25, Stray, Lies of P, No Man’s Sky, SnowRunner, Total War: Pharaoh, A Total War Saga: Troy, Football Manager 2024, Everspace 2, Eve Online, Layers of Fear and many more are shovel ware to you? Those games don’t even have a native Linux port.
14. You say you can play any Windows game you want with Proton but so can we on Mac, even that Banana. Valve had to create Proton to attract game developers and make Linux gaming and Steam Deck popular. They had to rely on a Wine compatibility layer. There is also such a compatibility layer for Mac by the same team behind Proton. It’s called Crossover, by Codeweavers. Linux or SteamOS alone can’t handle all the Windows games just as macOS alone can’t do the same. If we’re allowed to include all the compatible Windows games with the help of Proton in this discussion we have to do the same for Mac with the help of Crossover, pure and simple.
This means that many of those popular AAA Windows games and many old 32-bit games can already run on Mac too. Old and new games like Left 4 Dead, Portal, Half-Life, Team Fortress, Elden Ring, Cyberpunk 2077, Sekiro, GTA V, Fallout, The Forest, The Division, Neir: Automata, Hogwarts Legacy and many many more run well and even better thanks to Apple Silicon Macs’ superior HW compared to Steam Deck.
Proton being free and Crossover not is not the subject of the discussion here. Valve pays for Proton to make it free. Even though Apple doesn’t do the same they did contribute freely to Crossover by making Game Porting Toolkit free to use, making it possible to play the latest Windows games with D3DMetal. Linux/Steam Deck gamers enjoy Proton for free while Mac owners pay for it but again that’s not a problem for us who already are willing to pay more for our computers. You can get a lifetime license for Crossover for less than the cost of a Steam Deck. The difference is that you’ll never have to buy another license but you have to buy new Steam Decks in the future. You can also use Game Porting Toolkit and Whisky freely if you don’t want to pay. With GPTK2 and its AVX2 support you can also play even more Windows games.
Last time I checked the Top 100 list of popular games on ProtonDB about 79 of them either had native Mac port or ran well in Crossover.
15. You call Metal a ”waste-of-time” API but do you realize that Nat Brown who’s one of the lead engineers in Apple’s Metal team is a former Valve and Microsoft engineer and co-creator of Xbox and was hired by Apple in 2019 before the release of Apple Silicon to work on graphics and game tech and is behind Metal Performance HUD? Don’t think he would waste his precious time if he didn’t believe in Metal.
Neither would all those game developers I mentioned before or 3D/graphics software like Blender, Maya, AutoCAD, Rhino, Cinema 4D, Redshift, ZBrush and Adobe Suite support Metal if it was a waste of time. Last year 5,498 games were released for Mac only on Steam but only 3,748 for Linux.
16. You say Mac is so unpopular that Apple has to pay developers for porting games but you provide no source. Who’s been paid by Apple? Companies can make deals that can benefit each other and offer things in return but there is no evidence of Apple paying for ported games. Apple is attracting devs by potential access to the huge combined market of macOS and iOS.
Also since when paying for games and offering free support is a bad thing for gamers? This is so common in the whole gaming industry. So it’s great when Valve pays millions to Codeweavers for Proton so Linux gamers can enjoy it freely or when Microsoft buys game studios like Activision Blizzard for over $75 billion but if Apple does it it’s a bad sign? Aren’t you aware of all the games sponsored by Nvidia and AMD and their partnership with game studios? They literally have pages on their web sites with ”Featured Partner Games” but when Apple offers technical guidance and support it’s again a bad sign and bad for gamers??
That’s nothing but double standard and double bind. Damn if they do damn if they don’t. In the end does it even matter if it helps bringing more games? Isn’t that the same thing all the experts on Apple’s gaming strategy complain about all the time? That Apple should buy and pay for this and that?
https://www.amd.com/en/gaming/featured-games.html
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/games/
https://technoidinc.com/blogs/gaming-pc/enhancing-gaming-performance-amds-collaboration-with-developers
https://youtu.be/Xq-ribPNSBA?si=W-mruaU8h7owf_FO
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/14v16vs/a_complete_list_of_sponsored_games_their/
16. Your claim about the number of games working or not on Linux vs macOS is also incorrect because most Steam titles don’t work with Proton according to Steamdb or Protondb. According to Protondb only 2% of the Steam games are Deck verified or playable. Only 5% are Tier 1-2 without tinkering and about 9% Platinum or Gold with some tinkering.
17. Valve was worth $7.7 billion in 2022 and had a total revenue of $13 billion so the same can be said about them. If a single indie developer manages to port their entire game to Apple Silicon with a small budget Valve should be able to port their launcher with so much money.
You say you’d ”love it if games where on all platforms of OS and hardware” but then you take Valve’s side when we are in fact all paying customers/gamers who deserve service. You blame us for taking Apple’s side but behave in the same way when it comes to Valve instead.
This proves with your own logic that Valve is no better than Apple so in your own words stop acting like Valve is some helpless baby and that this is all Apple’s fault. If all those major and indie developers can port their game engines, AAA games and advanced 3D software to Apple Silicon Valve should manage to port a simple game browser. To say anything else and put the blame on Apple or Valve’s customers is simply childish or disingenuous.
This is not a thread about platform wars. It’s about paying customers and gamers wanting better support and service. There are around 2 million monthly Mac gamers on Steam. Valve has made hundreds of millions of dollars of its Mac users since 2010. I think they have the right to ask for a simple native game launcher/browser after all this time.
https://usesignhouse.com/blog/valve-stats/
It's actually embarrassing at this point that valve asks me to buy games on this machine with the sorry state of their software on mac.
Despite Valve being worth $7.7 billion in 2022 and having a total revenue of $13 billion they only had 336 employees in 2021.
Despite having over 132 million monthly users only 79 people work on Steam.
”To put this into perspective, EA or Electronic Arts has around 13,700 employees, with Riot Games and Epic Games sitting on around 4,200 employees.”
”Humble Bundle creator Wolfire Games is the company behind the lawsuit arguing that Valve "devotes a minuscule percentage of its revenue to maintaining and improving the Steam Store," which is a direct nod to the company not having enough people.”
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/99324/valve-is-smaller-than-we-thought-fraction-of-the-size-many-aaa-studios-and-publishers/index.html?
EA only has 1 official Mac game right now, and even they just released a native silicon mac app lol
shame on you valve lol