"Stricter gun laws" = NOTHING to do with "banning guns"

[Shodan 2.0]

Just saying, it seems like too many people misunderstand this idea or just misinterpret it on purpose in order to have some "problem" to whine about and a "common enemy" as a manipulation tool or simply just to have more things to whine about.

Anyway, "stricter gun laws" would just make it harder for the wrong people to get access to guns. The people who take away other people's freedom. Without such people having access to guns, everyone else would have more freedom. Freedom to live. Freedom to go anywhere without fear of getting shot.

The problem isn't guns or normal gun owners, it's just the wrong people being able to access them too easily and without even knowing how to use them responsibly.

Stricter gun laws would absolutely not affect all the normal gun owners out there who are the majority, so I don't see what's the problem. You would still have your guns for self-defense just in case because you can never fully get rid of criminals, but you would definitely be less likely to have to use them as a last resort.

See, you can have a gun in Massachusetts just fine:

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/gun-ownership-in-massachusetts

But, because Massachusetts has stricter gun laws, mass shootings (specifically school shootings) there are as nonexistent as in Europe and it's generally one of the best states in terms of safety.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_shootings_in_Massachusetts

Just 4 entries here, basically isolated incidents as anywhere else in the world.

Switzerland has a really strong gun culture and plenty of guns, but mass shootings are nonexistent. Go figure. Maybe it's proper regulations, as well as proper education and training?

[GloriousZote]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Sir Seanicus, Esq.:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lora Grim:

Emphases on armed GUARDS. Not armed civilians.
Civilians will just run for their lives. Doesn't matter if they have guns, they wont fight back.

Speak for yourself, coward.
https://youtu.be/fkG9p6P6UNo?t=218

Oh don't forget one of the recent school shootings where parents were restricted from protecting their children, while the "professionals" did ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ just standing outside the school.

It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hilarious seeing left-wing people ♥♥♥♥ all over the police every day, then turn around and say they should be the only ones to own firearms, even when ♥♥♥♥ like that goes on.

[GloriousZote]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Shodan 2.0:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από King Narwhal:

What? An opinion that isn't either "no restrictions bc slippery slope fallacy and conspiracy theories" or "ban everything while ignoring logistic impossibilities"?

You know that isn't allowed here! You have to be one extreme or the other, and anything less means you aren't being a good little party slave, which is unamerican!

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ FINALLY, SOME COMMON ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ SENSE!

"It's only common sense if somebody agrees with me!"
You should become a politician.

[Lora Grim]

The average person isn't going to stop to defend themselves or others during a shooting. They will run.
All these examples of people who do stop to shoot back or help others are extraordinary. They are rare. They are uncommon.
And that's just a fact. Otherwise, 90% of shooting would be stopped before they got too far.. which they aren't. They aren't stopped.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Xero_Daxter:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Shodan 2.0:

I didn't even have any of that in mind, I meant that it should be more like getting a driver's license. No one complains about those and everyone except for those who really shouldn't be allowed near cars successfully gets one without a problem. It could be the same with guns.

Maybe we should raise the requirements of qualifying for a gun license? But even then someone could snap at any moment. We can’t really control people and what they would do.

This is the issue.

Increasing the requirements would only hurt those who are using the legal channels to get a gun. It won't apply to those who have money or connections.

There's also the issue of properly enforcing current federal regulations. For example, there was a church shooting in Texas years ago. After digging, the shooter was never supposed to be able to buy a gun because of a domestic violence charge. But, since this charge was gained while in the Navy(IIRC), it never got properly filed to show up on his background check.

Other examples are how we are told that people warn police, teachers, etc. about someone and it goes ignored. This happened with the 6 year old shooting a teacher. The principle was told multiple times about this kid and even knew he had a gun before he shot the teacher.

Neither of those events would've happened if proper procedures/laws were enforced.

[GloriousZote]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lora Grim:

The average person isn't going to stop to defend themselves or others during a shooting. They will run.
All these examples of people who do stop to shoot back or help others are extraordinary. They are rare. They are uncommon.
And that's just a fact. Otherwise, 90% of shooting would be stopped before they got too far.. which they aren't. They aren't stopped.

That's because they happen on school grounds, and even with it being legal to carry guns, it's not legal to do so on school grounds.
It's 95% children, and then the remaining 5% are school staff, whom I believe, if armed, you'd see a decrease in school shootings, too.

[Netaris]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Shodan 2.0:

It would at least reduce it even just a little. It wouldn't fix it, but it's better than doing nothing each time ♥♥♥♥ happens. For normal gun owners, it would really be as if nothing changed, so I don't see a problem.

Regulations are just regulations, nothing to do with total banning, taking away and other apocalyptic scenarios. There are tons of regulations for cars too and you need to learn and pass a theory exam, then spend like dozens of hours (at least here) on driving lessons and finally, pass the driving exam, in order to get a driver's license. No one ever complains about that entire procedure, no one ever talks about freedom and rights when it comes to cars, even though cars are like the definition of personal freedom and you actually (need to) use them on a daily basis for all the essential stuff.

Well, the 3rd october 2019 in France, Paris, in a police building, 4 policemen were killed by a sole men working here, with a ceramic knife. He was shot and killed while attempting to flee the area. He was able to kill 4 armed and trained police officers, with a simple knife. You know why ? Because it's easier to hide and it make no noise when you use it, especially if the victim don't scream. In genocides, the most used weapons are blades, especially machetes. I know that blades may appear as a weapon of the past, something outdated, but I can assure you they're as scary as ever. In some situations, having a knife is better than having a gun, especially in buildings when the victim is surprised by the attack.

The point I try to make is : You can't just ban anything dangerous and hope it will be sufficient to prevent madmen to kill others. The problem isn't the access to guns, because the average guy will just take his gun to the range and have fun with it. The real problem is the will to kill other humans and we're not confortable with that at all contrary to what some peoples may think, except for some psychopaths maybe. It take a lot of things to push someone to do that kind of things. Find what and act on that instead, it will be less spectacular than banning guns, but it will be far more efficient.

All I see with the talking about firearms is politicians with no will to fix the problem of mass-shootings, who point at guns as the responssibles of mass-shootings (and not their policies lol), using them as an excuse to make firearms harder for their citizens to have and have more control on them. All I see is peoples tricked by politicians who use their emotions against them to follow their agenda. It will not fix the problem, you just gonna give away your liberties, for nothing in return. That's how I see all this from afar, peoples having more liberties than most, ready to throw these liberties away for a false hope for a solution and politicians using people's fears and anger against people's interrests, so they can follow their agenda.

[Shodan 2.0]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GloriousZote:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Shodan 2.0:

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ FINALLY, SOME COMMON ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ SENSE!

"It's only common sense if somebody agrees with me!"
You should become a politician.

This doesn't even deserve a reply. Neither does most of the ♥♥♥♥ above, but the difference is that I repeated myself too many times now and if someone still proceeds to ignore that and just copy+paste the same generic ♥♥♥♥ over and over, instead of actually reading and seeing that I already not just addressed, but acknowledged said the same things myself, well, not my problem, that just means they're clearly wrong and have zero arguments.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lora Grim:

The average person isn't going to stop to defend themselves or others during a shooting. They will run.
All these examples of people who do stop to shoot back or help others are extraordinary. They are rare. They are uncommon.
And that's just a fact. Otherwise, 90% of shooting would be stopped before they got too far.. which they aren't. They aren't stopped.

A majority of people do not conceal carry. The places these shootings happen are usually marked as gun free, making it illegal to carry a weapon(even when licensed) on the property. Law abiding gun owners will usually not carry their weapon where it is prohibited because it could mean revocation of their license.

Hyperbolic statements only discredit any reasonable statement buried within.

[Shodan 2.0]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από 󠀡󠀡:

As an american, I completely agree.

You’ll get people who state that this is how it all starts and how such regs won’t deter criminals from obtaining such weaponry but if stricter regs can prevent even one child from getting snuffed out and prevented from living a long and fruitful life due to their parent or guardian or neighbor’s idiocy, then it’s worth it.

I kind of think people who fail to take any kind of reasonable stand on such matters actually want what they’re so afraid of.

The gun culture here isn’t going anywhere though and I won’t say that it should entirely; rather it be more taken with the responsibility and accountability that it truly deserves.

But North america needs to buck up and get it’s ♥♥♥♥ together. The “omg lulz, you’re not even american” takes are usually pawned iff by those who conveniently idolize and have a masturbatory attitude over their euro roots anyway. Why select only portions of their lineage to prize? Because by doing so would admit to americans being like everyone else? A faulty, frail and interdependent people? Talk about the lulz.

Exactly, spot-on. That first paragraph, that's exactly what I had in mind this whole time, you just put it perfectly which I couldn't. And yeah, the gun culture isn't going anywhere and it doesn't need to, Switzerland has a strong gun culture and tons of guns too, but without these huge problems. Everyone here just refuses to read and refuses to see that this isn't about banning guns, taking away guns, hating guns and gun cultures and what not, they just copy+paste their stupid generic ♥♥♥♥ over and over and that's it.

[GloriousZote]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Shodan 2.0:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από GloriousZote:

"It's only common sense if somebody agrees with me!"
You should become a politician.

This doesn't even deserve a reply. Neither does most of the ♥♥♥♥ above, but the difference is that I repeated myself too many times now and if someone still proceeds to ignore that and just copy+paste the same generic ♥♥♥♥ over and over, instead of actually reading and seeing that I already not just addressed, but acknowledged said the same things myself, well, not my problem, that just means they're clearly wrong and have zero arguments.

The only one who's copypasting the same regurgitated ♥♥♥♥ is you, we've addressed everything you said in your rant, it is YOU who chooses not to read what people say.

[Lora Grim]

Only rats should have guns. It is what makes Warhammer 2 so much fun.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Shodan 2.0:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από 󠀡󠀡:

As an american, I completely agree.

You’ll get people who state that this is how it all starts and how such regs won’t deter criminals from obtaining such weaponry but if stricter regs can prevent even one child from getting snuffed out and prevented from living a long and fruitful life due to their parent or guardian or neighbor’s idiocy, then it’s worth it.

I kind of think people who fail to take any kind of reasonable stand on such matters actually want what they’re so afraid of.

The gun culture here isn’t going anywhere though and I won’t say that it should entirely; rather it be more taken with the responsibility and accountability that it truly deserves.

But North america needs to buck up and get it’s ♥♥♥♥ together. The “omg lulz, you’re not even american” takes are usually pawned iff by those who conveniently idolize and have a masturbatory attitude over their euro roots anyway. Why select only portions of their lineage to prize? Because by doing so would admit to americans being like everyone else? A faulty, frail and interdependent people? Talk about the lulz.

Exactly. That first paragraph, that's exactly what I had in mind this whole time, you just put it perfectly which I couldn't.

That same "If it just saves one..." logic is what was used to rocket the Patriot Act through our legal system.

An act that gave the government more power over it's citizens. A government that has only been trying to increase that power over two decades later.

The slippery slope argument isn't hyperbole, we all watched it, and are currently watching it, happen.

[Shodan 2.0]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από SlowMango:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Shodan 2.0:

Exactly. That first paragraph, that's exactly what I had in mind this whole time, you just put it perfectly which I couldn't.

That same "If it just saves one..." logic is what was used to rocket the Patriot Act through our legal system.

An act that gave the government more power over it's citizens. A government that has only been trying to increase that power over two decades later.

The slippery slope argument isn't hyperbole, we all watched it, and are currently watching it happen.

Isn't your entire point here a slippery slope? Guns can't and won't go anywhere, and lives being saved is worth it.

[ShadowShifterMarlith]

Gun Laws, what gun laws?

Gun Violence is all over the place. People don't care about gun laws anymore.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Shodan 2.0:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από SlowMango:

That same "If it just saves one..." logic is what was used to rocket the Patriot Act through our legal system.

An act that gave the government more power over it's citizens. A government that has only been trying to increase that power over two decades later.

The slippery slope argument isn't hyperbole, we all watched it, and are currently watching it happen.

Isn't your entire point here a slippery slope?

That is one part but not the main point. There are other points I have brought up.

People seem hung up on the slippery slope argument so I addressed it with a real example of it happening when you give the government and inch.