Celebrate Allies in WW2 topic

[Hobbit XIII]

So I do not have to answer lots of questions and 'views' of ww2 which after 20 + years on the internet are really boring now and I do not want to distract from the Israel and Iran thread.

Please inform me of how wonderful your countries were during WW2.

I await with aniticipation.

[Hobbit XIII]

Escrito originalmente por Arkham99:

Canada was there from the beginning... the USA didn't get involved until later, and that's because they had the same divisions that still haunt Congress today... nearly 50% of Americans were actually on board with Germany's aspirations...:-)

In the UK we rarely here from Canada, Australia, New Zealand or India about how they saved someone's ass. Yet, there they were no mucking about.

[Q-T_3.14.exe]

My great grandfather was thrown out of the Motherland only to fight against Her later.

He fought for Freedom and independence of the people who took him in and gave him a home.

Now that is something I respect.

[1ncendie]

The Soviet Union is an Allied country. The Great Patriotic War affected her very unexpectedly. Being caught in an unexpected moment, the weapons and uniforms of the Soviet soldiers were poor, poor in equipment, poor in everything. Of course, I don't know much about my great-grandfathers and great-grandmothers who were participants in the War, but I can say that they were during the Siege of Leningrad. There was no food in besieged Leningrad, water was taken from running water, which made cracks in the ice, from the drains of old dilapidated buildings. But despite all this burden, people gave concerts, went to school, produced weapons and uniforms for soldiers. All this was before the Road of Life across the river.
My great-grandfather was a Cossack on horseback with a saber, I don't know if he chopped down the enemy like grass, but he was a very happy man, even blown up in a minefield. And my great-grandmother was a sister of mercy, helping wounded and shell-shocked soldiers.
The Soviet Union had one order. Not a step back! And it's true, the capital is behind us.

[1ncendie]

War is an old way of solving a problem, but it's very effective, damn it. How much blood was shed not only by the Allies, but also by the AXIS countries. Personally, when they showed videos from different countries, it was bad for me to watch people die. Although I am very fond of this topic, I collect items of clothing, shell casings, old photographs, and when they take in teams to dig old trenches, dugouts, you can find a lot of old things of that time. We used to have the ASTRA club. We did it in it. The biggest cop in the history of the club is a fighter who was considered missing. It's an eerie feeling to see a skeleton that was once human.

[Hobbit XIII]

Escrito originalmente por RUS Bundeva:

The Soviet Union is an Allied country. The Great Patriotic War affected her very unexpectedly. Being caught in an unexpected moment, the weapons and uniforms of the Soviet soldiers were poor, poor in equipment, poor in everything. Of course, I don't know much about my great-grandfathers and great-grandmothers who were participants in the War, but I can say that they were during the Siege of Leningrad. There was no food in besieged Leningrad, water was taken from running water, which made cracks in the ice, from the drains of old dilapidated buildings. But despite all this burden, people gave concerts, went to school, produced weapons and uniforms for soldiers. All this was before the Road of Life across the river.
My great-grandfather was a Cossack on horseback with a saber, I don't know if he chopped down the enemy like grass, but he was a very happy man, even blown up in a minefield. And my great-grandmother was a sister of mercy, helping wounded and shell-shocked soldiers.
The Soviet Union had one order. Not a step back! And it's true, the capital is behind us.

To have survived Leningrad is saying something in itself.

[WhiteKnight77]

Escrito originalmente por Electric Cupcake:

Market Garden was Montgomery's pet plan. You're not blaming that one on Americans.

Market Garden should have never happened. While I like the British and all, every time I read about something in the ETO that involved the British, they appeared to be the laziest bunch of fighters ever. What would have happened if XXX Corps did not stop to take tea on the road to Arnhem? What would have happened if they sent the Poles in for their paradrop?

Just like on Sicily, Patton rolled up the whole western part of the island while Monty dragged ass. Patton should not have beaten Monty to Messina, yet he did. We could have closed the Falaise, but someone thought Patton should stop (this was all on General Bradley though), but again, the British lagged behind and didn't push hard enough.

[Electric Cupcake]

The movie Patton probably exaggerates how his blitzkrieging across France and keeping them running in disarray could have punched through the Ziegfried Line all on his own, but for his supply lines being redirected to Market Garden, and the enemies getting breathing space to organize and dig in and maul the 3rd army in a counterattack.

But even if they hadn't run out of gas, he definitely could have continued raising hell and keeping them busy and drawn forces away so Montgomery would have had a chance of actually succeeding.

He could appreciate Fabian Strategy like no other.

[Morkonan]

Fictional movies are rarely documentaries.

And, even heckin' documentaries aren't always heckin' documentaries... (If you listen carefully, you guys can hear me screaming at the TV from my living room while watching documentaries that are wrong. True story. Srsly.)


So, in response to the above, I was gonna link an article that spelled out the myth and some of the facts around Market Garden.

But, then this article, from a popular history source that presents itself as such, went on to spout BS pop-crap junk about other WWII stuffs...


Did you guys know that The Internet is just chock-full of BS? Well, yup, it is. :/ /sigh I'm not a Historian. But, holy crap, the BS some "credible" websites will post as fact is just too much. Anyway, here's something to justify, barely, me pressing the Post Comment button. It's also suspect info, tho:

https://www.history.com/news/operation-market-garden-failure-allies

Fookin' A, the Soviets were allowed to capture Berlin for a whole bunch of very practical reasons, some of them political, but also including the fact that Berlin wasn't wear all the enemy soldiers still capable of causing problems were at... WTF??? I hope she didn't pay for a degree in WWII History, 'cause she was robbed. (IMO) I guess she watched some History Channel movie about it... :/

[Birds]

The problem with Patton for me is that he knew what was going on and was still doing what he did. Now, just for a moment, consider me on stage in a clownsuit saying this, given who I am and what all I've done. Like imagine this is a stand-up bit, and I'm pausing, because there's a big 'but' in the way.

He really pissed a lot of vampires off, and I appreciate the skill and accumen involved and necessary to do so. It's hard; their survival literally depends on it, and in a war EVERYTHING flows through vampire hands ten times before you even know it exists. It's hard to pull off.

However he was still out there, fighting wars that didn't make any actual sense from the beginning. Knowingly so. I find that hard not to judge; could just be me.

Although I heard what really screwed his presidential aspirations was that people found out he'd had a change of heart. Scared he might somehow manage to keep the US out of wars from the grave.

Also heard he was politically incompetent and that he did what he did because it was all he could do. Which idk, Democrats don't know any better. Republicans might not idk. Both had what they saw as more reliable canddiates, though. Experienced politicians.

...then his forward escort braked and killed him because a vampire hopped out of the bushes and hypnotized the driver into having a seizure that induced braking somehow. then flashed a strobe at the same time, on a driver with no history or capability for epilepsy until after he hit his head in the accident. (they were considering an assassination in the hospital you know.)

[Ysosrscat]

There is nothing to celebrate, the final conclusion was that any participation in the war was a mistake.

Like wars today it was for monied interests, Churchill was in debt to powerful forces and a dupe who gave away his Empire, moron trusted communist sympathizing Americans and got owned.

Who Gave Away the British Empire?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxActB2o-Tw

The Deepest Lore #151: How Churchill Destroyed British Power and Gave It to America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4-JDqF9p_g

The west sent millions of young men to die to win a war for Stalin.

The reward for "winning" was being invaded by the 3rd world, importing their problems and with enough, their standard of living.

You only have to look at South Africa to see their dream is a nightmare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLyWYNLJgUU

[Birds]

I don't recall whom controleld the coal market before 1918, but coal trading is what set the stage for the entire first war. All the old rivalries came out. Everyone wanted to prove something. Everyone had become dependent on coal trading, and any broad disagreement in the market was catastrophic to everyone. People wanted to find out the pecking order, because things were falling apart.

And things keep falling apart, and no wars are happening now. Right?

[Hobbit XIII]

Escrito originalmente por WhiteKnight77:

Escrito originalmente por Electric Cupcake:

Market Garden was Montgomery's pet plan. You're not blaming that one on Americans.

Market Garden should have never happened. While I like the British and all, every time I read about something in the ETO that involved the British, they appeared to be the laziest bunch of fighters ever. What would have happened if XXX Corps did not stop to take tea on the road to Arnhem? What would have happened if they sent the Poles in for their paradrop?

Just like on Sicily, Patton rolled up the whole western part of the island while Monty dragged ass. Patton should not have beaten Monty to Messina, yet he did. We could have closed the Falaise, but someone thought Patton should stop (this was all on General Bradley though), but again, the British lagged behind and didn't push hard enough.

Patton had exceptional skills and his personal doctrine was about being swift.

The British do not have infinite amount of resources and men so what the British do if I was to take everything you said as fact is 'do things properly' .

Operation Market Garden failed because an officer broke orders and carried a map that was taken by the enemy from his dead body.

I am not going to take anything from Patton but that does not mean you can wave some flag over your words.

I'll be adding one of my friends who served in the US Airborne (not in WW2) distinctly disliked Patton.

[Voroff]

Escrito originalmente por Sigma957:

The Allies committed unspeakable war crimes against civilians and surrendered soldiers. Greatest generation my arse.

Historicaly, war crimes are commited in war time during wars. All of the wars. Stop beating your chest over that, because doing the surprised pikachu face about war crimes EACH time there's a new war is kinda lame.

Escrito originalmente por Hobbit XIII:

To have survived Leningrad is saying something in itself.

One of my granddads was there, got a shrapnel in his spine and left paralysed. Died before i was born.
His brother, that's another story : get enlisted in a regiment, train with them, sent to the front lines - his train got airbombed. Light injury, back to a new regiment, with training time, then send to the front lines : the train is airbombed. No injury, but no more regiment. Go to the training facility with a new regiment, send to the front lines : train bombed. Back to square one.
He never actually saw any fighting in all the war - except in training.

[Ganger]

I respect all military personnel of every country to a point. I don't like soldiers who go out of their way to target and kill civilians. So many examples of this happen throughout history and many simply get away with this crime, depending on what side your fighting for.

We know in war time, civilians will be killed in mass due to the very nature of war itself but when you have a strategy that deliberately target the homes, towns, cities and civilians (men, women and children) themselves then how can a civilised people turn a blind eye to the crimes committed by their own soldiers.

[WhiteKnight77]

Escrito originalmente por Hobbit XIII:

Escrito originalmente por WhiteKnight77:

Market Garden should have never happened. While I like the British and all, every time I read about something in the ETO that involved the British, they appeared to be the laziest bunch of fighters ever. What would have happened if XXX Corps did not stop to take tea on the road to Arnhem? What would have happened if they sent the Poles in for their paradrop?

Just like on Sicily, Patton rolled up the whole western part of the island while Monty dragged ass. Patton should not have beaten Monty to Messina, yet he did. We could have closed the Falaise, but someone thought Patton should stop (this was all on General Bradley though), but again, the British lagged behind and didn't push hard enough.

Patton had exceptional skills and his personal doctrine was about being swift.

The British do not have infinite amount of resources and men so what the British do if I was to take everything you said as fact is 'do things properly' .

Operation Market Garden failed because an officer broke orders and carried a map that was taken by the enemy from his dead body.

I am not going to take anything from Patton but that does not mean you can wave some flag over your words.

I'll be adding one of my friends who served in the US Airborne (not in WW2) distinctly disliked Patton.

I read predominately WWII books. This is just a bit of all of them I have read since 2006. https://www.whiteknight77.net/images/books4.jpg
https://www.whiteknight77.net/images/books5.jpg
https://www.whiteknight77.net/images/books6.jpg
https://www.whiteknight77.net/images/books8.jpg
https://www.whiteknight77.net/images/books9.jpg
https://www.whiteknight77.net/images/books10.jpg
https://www.whiteknight77.net/images/books11.jpg
https://www.whiteknight77.net/images/books12.jpg

I have since read all the the Rick Atkinson trilogy as Ian Tolls Pacific war trilogy. I have a couple of other trilogies that I am reading, including one on Patton, another about the Japanese that started with Tower of Skulls, and another about war in the South Pacific though it could be a 4 book series by Jeffery R. Cox.