State of the FPS genre?

[丂ｱ乇丂丂ひ_丂乃]

Hey there!

I thought it would be good to have some discussion about the state of FPS genre once again. Now that Call of Duty: Ghosts has received bad reception and has been shown publicly that CoD: Ghosts has receclyd a fulllength cutscene from Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, it is very obvious that this game is not anything else but milking and actually a true cancer to videogame industry due to the stagnation it has brought with it's un-fair success.
The Call of Duty series only succeeded because Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare lowered the skill level to such level, where a non-gamer could pick up the game and be good in the game immediately. Since then, many devs/pubs have gone after that mentality by creating these endless brainless CoD-clones that offer no innovativity nor any gameplay depth.

Because well, there is simply an unacceptably long list of CoD clones in just so short amount of time. And those people who bring up the whole "DooM clone" thing, need to think of this. DooM (1993) was an innovative game that had never been seen before. It had working gameplay mechanics such as need to manage health manually inorder to proceed forward in the game. Call of Duty courages to be sloppy and non-focused to succeed in a game. DooM and those so called "DooM clones" actually required player to think because there was no handholding at all and therefore DooM was actually a working formula to clone. Player made the choices and player was given no hints or any assitance from the npc's since there was no npc's but only enemies. Half-Life introduced npc's but that's a whole another thing which is not the topic now.

Alien Rage (2013)
Aliens: Colonial Marines (2013)
Battlefield 3 (2011)
Battlefield 4 (2013)
Bioshock 3 (2013)
Bulletstorm (2011)
Crysis (2007)
Crysis2 (2011)
Crysis3 (2012)
Duke Nukem: Forever (2011)
Far Cry 2 (2008)
Far Cry 3 (2012)
F3AR (2011)
Frontlines: Fuel of War (2009)
Halo 4 (2012)
Homefront (2011)
Killzone 2 (2009)
Killzone 3 (2011)
Killzone 4 (2013)
Medal of Honor (2010)
Medal of Honor: Warfighter (2011)
Metro: 2033 (2010)
Metro: Last Light (2013)
RAGE (2011)
Resistance 2 (2008)
Singularity (2011)
Wolfenstein (2009)

All of these games have most of these issues: Regenerating health, sprintburst which disables running and gunning, weaponlimit, aiming down sights, linear levels filled with scripted sequences, cannot open doors on your own but only npc's can open doors, hard difficulty is easy for an veteran gamer, weapons arent really that different (rifle A and rifle B. Whereas Unreal Tournament has rocketlauncher, biorifle, flakgun, ripper.. get the picture), all of these games rely around covershoot gameplay because regenerating health removes the possibilty to go Rambo due to dying from 2-3 hits. (Notice how these previous releases were different since at the time CoD didn't exist in the popularity it does today. Halo1-3, Far Cry1, Duke Nukem: 3D, Fear1-2, Killzone1, Bioshock1, Medal of Honor1-Allied Assault, Wolfenstein: 3D&Return to Castle WOlfenstein. Non of these had any regenerating health, ironsights or for that matter any modern crap in them)

I just got back from an 24 the series marathon (the tv series by 20th Century Fox Television). Now just like in this tv series, in most movies people dodge bullets. In old school FPS you also dodge bullets and that is fun. Ducking in a cover doing nothing but sucking thumb is not fun nor challenging (Modern Military Shooter/CoD clone). Regenerating health removes all sense of danger from the game because you know that you will be just fine in a few seconds by doing absolutely nothing. This is called dumbing down a game. If you compare any 90's FPS to an FPS after 2007 that is non-indie, you will see that the latter one is significantly more easier than the game from the 90's. The reason why is that, is because Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare was released in 2007 and it really good sales because of un-fair tactics. Game being made as easy as possible and flashy as possible since explosions come every 2 seconds.

There are now a few good FPS games such as Wrack, Hard Reset (2012), Serious Sam3 (2011), Blood Dragon (2013), Rise of the Triad remake (2013) and Shadow Warrior 2013. But they are from Indie developers. Mainstream FPS are still the Call of Duty clones. Latest clones being 2013 Alien Rage and Aliens: Colonial Marines. I want to know also what people think of those better games such as Hard Reset and Shadow Warrior 2013? Blood Dragon is the closest to modern mechanics but somehow it's still very enjoyable. Though i absoltely hate the ironsights thing about Blood Dragon. There is one mainstream old school inspired FPS which is Wolfenstein: The New Order (2014) yet to come. WTNO's scheduled release date is January 2014 and it is supposed to bring the best out of modern FPS gameplay as best from old school FPS gameplay. Semi regenerating health so you regenerate from 5%hp up %25hp and then need to pickup a medkit to get past %25hp etc..

Lastly. This post isn't only about the singleplayer. The multiplayer is also some true garbage at the moment. Call of Duty and it's likes take no skill. Battlefield 3-4 according to my information takes atleast a bit of skill but still nowhere near the likes of Counter-Strike, Unreal Tournament or Quake Live. I dare any CoD fanboy give Quake Live a try. It won't take any of your precious harddrive space since it's an free2play game that plays directly on your web browser without any actual complicated installation wizards. That gamepace of Quake Live and old school FPS in general is ridiciolous compared to Call of Duty and all modern FPS because modern FPS are so slowpaced. www.quakelive.com and see the difference for yourself.

Also check this updated parody about modern FPS.
If DooM was done today (part3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F0AdWBmiQY

Copied Call of Duty cutscene
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/06/is-this-call-of-duty-ghosts-cutscene-copied-from-modern-warfare-2

tldbr

-CoD's un-fair success has brought significant amount of CoD-clones

-Modern FPS gameplay mechanics

-Few good moderntime released FPS games.

-Thoughts on Wolfenstein: The New Order.

-Quake Live

[Shasow]

spessu_sb lähetti viestin:

Shasow lähetti viestin:

I disagree with most of this thread.
"Regenerating health, sprintburst which disables running and gunning, weaponlimit, aiming down sights, "
These aren't issues.

If you have been raised by DooM and Quake, and not by Call of Duty. Then yes, they are issues.

Shasow lähetti viestin:

I disagree with most of this thread.
"all of these games rely around covershoot gameplay because regenerating health removes the possibilty to go Rambo due to dying from 2-3 hits. "
This doesn't even make sense. Stopped reading after this.

Doesn't make sense? Huh, how come not? You die from 2-5 hits in Duke Nukem Forever, CoD and pretty much every other regen game also, such as Killzone or Medal of Honor.

Are you sincerly saying that regen allowes to go more rambo than traditional manual health management? I certainly can take alot more bullets in Duke 3D, DooM, Serious Sam, Hard Reset and pretty much every traditional FPS than any regen health game. The reason is because regen=stay behind cover.

Shasow lähetti viestin:

There is also nothing wrong with any of the games you have listed (other than Battlefield and CoD). "Bioshock 3" doesn't even exist. Far Cry 3 was probably the best game of 2012. Wolfenstein, Duke Nukem, Crysis - seriously? Are you calling those games terrible because they have the ability to AIM DOWN SIGHTS? Not sure if you've ever seen a real gun before.... And sprinting... /facepalm Not sure if you've ever been outside before.... And in real life, you can't carry an unlimited amount of weapons with you.

There are plenty of wrong with the listed games. They are all CoD clones. Meaning they feel identical gameplaywise. Far Cry 3 feels CoD even more than Far Cry 2, and i already had difficult time accepting FC2 gameplay. I see that you have 100+ hrs in Call of Duty and therefore i don't expect you to understand.

FC3 is definitely not GOTY of 2012. Better candidates are Hard Reset (Exile addon completes the 2011 release which ended up early due to indie budget) or Alan Wake (PC release date) due to innovative and refreshing gameplay. FC3 is just another generic modern shooter. And if not thinking the semi health regen and openworld level desing. There isn't much different compared to CoD. Hard Reset has nothing similar to CoD. The game is set on Cyberpunk, has two weapons which have 10+ alternate fire types (such as electricity, rocketlauncher, minigun and railgun..) and non-regen health with level design that has secrets and requires traditional resource management inorder to survive.

Aim down sights has become popular because most games are simply console ports. Aim down sights is being used on consoles because the thumbstick is not precise if you turn and have to precisely aim also. Thats why the game is put on a high sensitivity when hip fire mode and low sensitivity when aim down sights. PC doesn't need any ironsights since mouse aiming with hipfire has worked well since 1992 (Wolfenstein 3D). Hard Reset doesn't have ads and basically Serious Sam 3 doesn't either, because the ads that is in Serious Sam 3, is only with two weapons of the all 15 weapons. It's there only because the first few levels are a parody of modern FPS due to their linearity and boring feel.

Sprinting. Again, to make console players be able to hit with their ironsights. Play Unreal Tournament or Quake Live and tell me how often people stop to shoot. They don't. The fight is moving while you are perfectly defending yourself. Sprintburst is part of dumbing down since when you evade with sprint, you are incapable of defending yourself (casual friendly, easier gameplay for the one shooting you) while in Quake Live you evade and defend simultaneously because you can run and shoot at the same time (non-casual friendly, takes skill to be good at). Again, every videogame is not supposed to be about realism. And if the majority of moderntime released (2007-) FPS has been nothing but CoD clones, surely it gets annoying that you cannot run and gun in a SCIFI FPS like Killzone, Bulletstorm or Rage?. Tell me again why cant you do something in an SCIFI FPS? It's SCIFI already, so obviously it's not about realism.

Since when has realism been more fun than imagination? Realism limits things you can do, realism limits fun because im sorry but if you want realism, howabout opening that door and going outdoors or simply firing up Arma? Videogames are more an escape from reality. So why would i want to relive reality with videogames? Imagination is alot more fun. You have endless possibilities whereas with realism you can only go so far until the limits come. Eg. you can't start flying from the ground on your own in reality, but imagination enables it. You can't have cities that are sky high with flying cars and floating bilboardsings, but imagination enables it. With imagination there are literally no limits on what you can, and what you cannot do, so it's alot more versatile compared to reality. And god knows we've have had more than enough already of these "realistic" modern shooters.

Lol, what a joke. Everything is a CoD clone then. "It has guns." COD CLONE!!!!

[丂ｱ乇丂丂ひ_丂乃]

Shasow lähetti viestin:

Lol, what a joke. Everything is a CoD clone then. "It has guns." COD CLONE!!!!

That your responce? You are another ignorant modern gamer. It's obvious to me that you don't even know what the gameplay of DooM, Quake and even the first three Halos feel like. FPS in general felt completely different. You just too ignorant to accept that. Because i never said it's a CoD clone because it has guns. I said it's a clone because there is nothing that is different from CoD in the fundamental gameplay.

If you are so damn right. Then play Quake and tell me it's 100% identical to CoD.

[Shasow]

spessu_sb lähetti viestin:

Shasow lähetti viestin:

Lol, what a joke. Everything is a CoD clone then. "It has guns." COD CLONE!!!!

That your responce? You are another ignorant modern gamer. It's obvious to me that you don't even know what the gameplay of DooM, Quake and even the first three Halos feel like. FPS in general felt completely different. You just too ignorant to accept that. Because i never said it's a CoD clone because it has guns. I said it's a clone because there is nothing that is different from CoD in the fundamental gameplay.

If you are so damn right. Then play Quake and tell me it's 100% identical to CoD.

You're spouting a whole lot of nonsense.

http://i.imgur.com/DcjArsB.png

[丂ｱ乇丂丂ひ_丂乃]

Shasow lähetti viestin:

spessu_sb lähetti viestin:

That your responce? You are another ignorant modern gamer. It's obvious to me that you don't even know what the gameplay of DooM, Quake and even the first three Halos feel like. FPS in general felt completely different. You just too ignorant to accept that. Because i never said it's a CoD clone because it has guns. I said it's a clone because there is nothing that is different from CoD in the fundamental gameplay.

If you are so damn right. Then play Quake and tell me it's 100% identical to CoD.

You're spouting a whole lot of nonsense.

http://i.imgur.com/DcjArsB.png

This is the last time. You cannot hide and regen in Quake because it's not an CoD-clone. Therefore the game is played significantly different from CoD style hide&snipe.

I'm done discussing this with you since you keep igonoring the facts with most odd things.

[Shasow]

spessu_sb lähetti viestin:

Shasow lähetti viestin:

You're spouting a whole lot of nonsense.

http://i.imgur.com/DcjArsB.png

This is the last time. You cannot hide and regen in Quake because it's not an CoD-clone. Therefore the game is played significantly different from CoD style hide&snipe.

I'm done discussing this with you since you keep igonoring the facts with most odd things.

You can hide and regen in Skyrim - must be a CoD clone.

http://i.imgur.com/gNzKTRB.jpg

[丂ｱ乇丂丂ひ_丂乃]

Shasow lähetti viestin:

spessu_sb lähetti viestin:

This is the last time. You cannot hide and regen in Quake because it's not an CoD-clone. Therefore the game is played significantly different from CoD style hide&snipe.

I'm done discussing this with you since you keep igonoring the facts with most odd things.

You can hide and regen in Skyrim - must be a CoD clone.

http://i.imgur.com/gNzKTRB.jpg

Is Skyrim a truly good game? No it isn't. It's from 2006/2007.

I don't like RPG at all but what i've seen my friends play back in the day. Morrowind is a alot more better than Skyrim. Back to the thing. Is Quake from 2000? No it's from 1996.

I suggest you dig up information on Quake so that you don't look stupid online. Quake engine is also in use with every single CoD. That is also really ridiciolous that Call of Duty Ghosts, a 2013 game is using 14 year old game engine. idtech3 from 1999 Quake 3 Arena.

[Shasow]

spessu_sb lähetti viestin:

Shasow lähetti viestin:

You can hide and regen in Skyrim - must be a CoD clone.

http://i.imgur.com/gNzKTRB.jpg

Is Skyrim a truly good game? No it isn't. It's from 2006/2007.

I don't like RPG at all but what i've seen my friends play back in the day. Morrowind is a alot more better than Skyrim. Back to the thing. Is Quake from 2000? No it's from 1996.

I suggest you dig up information on Quake so that you don't look stupid online. Quake engine is also in use with every single CoD. That is also really ridiciolous that Call of Duty Ghosts, a 2013 game is using 14 year old game engine. idtech3 from 1999 Quake 3 Arena.

Actually, Skyrim is from 2011. And just because it isn't a good game doesn't make it a CoD clone (does it?). Oh wait, you can hide and regen, never mind.

It is you that is looking stupid online (very, very stupid). CoD does not use a 14 year old engine.

[丂ｱ乇丂丂ひ_丂乃]

Shasow lähetti viestin:

spessu_sb lähetti viestin:

Is Skyrim a truly good game? No it isn't. It's from 2006/2007.

I don't like RPG at all but what i've seen my friends play back in the day. Morrowind is a alot more better than Skyrim. Back to the thing. Is Quake from 2000? No it's from 1996.

I suggest you dig up information on Quake so that you don't look stupid online. Quake engine is also in use with every single CoD. That is also really ridiciolous that Call of Duty Ghosts, a 2013 game is using 14 year old game engine. idtech3 from 1999 Quake 3 Arena.

Actually, Skyrim is from 2011. And just because it isn't a good game doesn't make it a CoD clone (does it?). Oh wait, you can hide and regen, never mind.

It is you that is looking stupid online (very, very stupid). CoD does not use a 14 year old engine.

Thank you for correcting. I admit i don't follow any news about RPG games and thus i mixed up Skyrim (2011) to Oblivion (2006).

Oh my.. so you are an CoD fanboy. Really explains the behaviour. Maybe you oughta find out information about the game you're playing :D

http://kotaku.com/next-gen-call-of-duty-last-last-gen-engine-509622298

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfym7fs-6w0

[Shasow]

spessu_sb lähetti viestin:

Shasow lähetti viestin:

Actually, Skyrim is from 2011. And just because it isn't a good game doesn't make it a CoD clone (does it?). Oh wait, you can hide and regen, never mind.

It is you that is looking stupid online (very, very stupid). CoD does not use a 14 year old engine.

Thank you for correcting. I admit i don't follow any news about RPG games and thus i mixed up Skyrim (2011) to Oblivion (2006).

Oh my.. so you are an CoD fanboy. Really explains the behaviour. Maybe you oughta find out information about the game you're playing :D

http://kotaku.com/next-gen-call-of-duty-last-last-gen-engine-509622298

Not a CoD fanboy, I just don't agree with the "everything is a CoD clone" attitude.

As for the engine, if you haven't noticed, has been significantly modified to a point where it's considered to be a new engine and is listed as such (talking about earlier CoD games here). It is not the old ID engine that Quake used. There are almost no games releasing with a brand new, made-from-the-group-up engine.

[丂ｱ乇丂丂ひ_丂乃]

Shasow lähetti viestin:

considered to be a new engine

Lol. Perhaps considered by Activision and IW, but every longtime gamer knows it's a lie. Now im gonna stop this spam off topic, and if you don't have anything to say about Quake and refuse to accept the facts. This is it.

[Shasow]

spessu_sb lähetti viestin:

Shasow lähetti viestin:

considered to be a new engine

Lol. Perhaps considered by Activision and IW, but every longtime gamer knows it's a lie. Now im gonna stop this spam off topic, and if you don't have anything to say about Quake and refuse to accept the facts. This is it.

It's considered to be a new engine just like Source 2 will be considered to be Source 2 and not Source 1. Stop thinking you're correct, because you are not (and I'm talking about the entire thread here).

[丂ｱ乇丂丂ひ_丂乃]

Shasow lähetti viestin:

It's considered to be a new engine just like Source 2 will be considered to be Source 2 and not Source 1. Stop thinking you're correct, because you are not (and I'm talking about the entire thread here).

Well, you just keep believing that if it makes you happy.

Shasow lähetti viestin:

I disagree with most of this thread.
"Regenerating health, sprintburst which disables running and gunning, weaponlimit, aiming down sights, "
These aren't issues.

"all of these games rely around covershoot gameplay because regenerating health removes the possibilty to go Rambo due to dying from 2-3 hits. "
This doesn't even make sense. Stopped reading after this.

Because of this, i know you have never played any older FPS. And thus have only a narrow view since modern FPS is all you have ever played.

[Ailes]

Regenerating health is a good thing in my opinion. Without it you would be forced to scrounge the maps for medikits, in the worst case you have to reload back to some point where there is still enough around. (That can be challenging to you, but to me this is frustrating, there are barely any shooters these days I have enough energy for to replay from point X dozens of times). It can still be immersive if the regeneration takes a long enough while to kick in >and< if the A.I. is actually trying to engage and flank you behind whatever cover you are finding. The problem in most shooters with regeneration is is that the A.I. is too dumb or they need too long to flush you out. Instead of moving away from regenerating health it would be better to improve the A.I. instead.

I don't see the problem with ironsights. Most of the time they are optional, with crosshairs still intact that allow you to shoot with enough precision.

The variety of guns: It really depends on the game scenario. If you are playing a modern-age war shooter it's obvious that they can't throw rocket launchers, instant-gib plasma cannons and whatnot at you just like that.

Shooter-wise I prefer the modern-age tactical approach over the finger-twitching reflex shooting as seen in games such as Unreal Tournament or Quake. These titles aren't my cup of tea any longer.

[Mr Keefy]

Plenty of tactic in Quake.
Quake is about controlling the items in the map and stopping your enemy from getting them, do that and you stand better chance of winning.
If you run and gun willy nilly in a Quake match you will not win

http://youtu.be/XdkDjsBiO58?t=3m54s

[WhiteKnight77]

Rhykevance lähetti viestin:

Regenerating health is a good thing in my opinion. Without it you would be forced to scrounge the maps for medikits, in the worst case you have to reload back to some point where there is still enough around. (That can be challenging to you, but to me this is frustrating, there are barely any shooters these days I have enough energy for to replay from point X dozens of times). It can still be immersive if the regeneration takes a long enough while to kick in >and< if the A.I. is actually trying to engage and flank you behind whatever cover you are finding. The problem in most shooters with regeneration is is that the A.I. is too dumb or they need too long to flush you out. Instead of moving away from regenerating health it would be better to improve the A.I. instead.

I don't see the problem with ironsights. Most of the time they are optional, with crosshairs still intact that allow you to shoot with enough precision.

The variety of guns: It really depends on the game scenario. If you are playing a modern-age war shooter it's obvious that they can't throw rocket launchers, instant-gib plasma cannons and whatnot at you just like that.

Shooter-wise I prefer the modern-age tactical approach over the finger-twitching reflex shooting as seen in games such as Unreal Tournament or Quake. These titles aren't my cup of tea any longer.

Why does a game need medkits or regenerating health? Why can't people get injured or killed without being a bullet sponge or be magically healed? Being able to do either takes away the suspense or the tenseness of the action (you say you like a tactical approach after all). Why can't a game make one consider what to do before doing it so you do not lose your life or become so injured that your character cannot function?