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丂ア乇丂丂ひ_丂乃 2013년 11월 27일 오후 5시 13분
State of the FPS genre?
Hey there!

I thought it would be good to have some discussion about the state of FPS genre once again. Now that Call of Duty: Ghosts has received bad reception and has been shown publicly that CoD: Ghosts has receclyd a fulllength cutscene from Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, it is very obvious that this game is not anything else but milking and actually a true cancer to videogame industry due to the stagnation it has brought with it's un-fair success.
The Call of Duty series only succeeded because Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare lowered the skill level to such level, where a non-gamer could pick up the game and be good in the game immediately. Since then, many devs/pubs have gone after that mentality by creating these endless brainless CoD-clones that offer no innovativity nor any gameplay depth.

Because well, there is simply an unacceptably long list of CoD clones in just so short amount of time. And those people who bring up the whole "DooM clone" thing, need to think of this. DooM (1993) was an innovative game that had never been seen before. It had working gameplay mechanics such as need to manage health manually inorder to proceed forward in the game. Call of Duty courages to be sloppy and non-focused to succeed in a game. DooM and those so called "DooM clones" actually required player to think because there was no handholding at all and therefore DooM was actually a working formula to clone. Player made the choices and player was given no hints or any assitance from the npc's since there was no npc's but only enemies. Half-Life introduced npc's but that's a whole another thing which is not the topic now.

Alien Rage (2013)
Aliens: Colonial Marines (2013)
Battlefield 3 (2011)
Battlefield 4 (2013)
Bioshock 3 (2013)
Bulletstorm (2011)
Crysis (2007)
Crysis2 (2011)
Crysis3 (2012)
Duke Nukem: Forever (2011)
Far Cry 2 (2008)
Far Cry 3 (2012)
F3AR (2011)
Frontlines: Fuel of War (2009)
Halo 4 (2012)
Homefront (2011)
Killzone 2 (2009)
Killzone 3 (2011)
Killzone 4 (2013)
Medal of Honor (2010)
Medal of Honor: Warfighter (2011)
Metro: 2033 (2010)
Metro: Last Light (2013)
RAGE (2011)
Resistance 2 (2008)
Singularity (2011)
Wolfenstein (2009)

All of these games have most of these issues: Regenerating health, sprintburst which disables running and gunning, weaponlimit, aiming down sights, linear levels filled with scripted sequences, cannot open doors on your own but only npc's can open doors, hard difficulty is easy for an veteran gamer, weapons arent really that different (rifle A and rifle B. Whereas Unreal Tournament has rocketlauncher, biorifle, flakgun, ripper.. get the picture), all of these games rely around covershoot gameplay because regenerating health removes the possibilty to go Rambo due to dying from 2-3 hits. (Notice how these previous releases were different since at the time CoD didn't exist in the popularity it does today. Halo1-3, Far Cry1, Duke Nukem: 3D, Fear1-2, Killzone1, Bioshock1, Medal of Honor1-Allied Assault, Wolfenstein: 3D&Return to Castle WOlfenstein. Non of these had any regenerating health, ironsights or for that matter any modern crap in them)

I just got back from an 24 the series marathon (the tv series by 20th Century Fox Television). Now just like in this tv series, in most movies people dodge bullets. In old school FPS you also dodge bullets and that is fun. Ducking in a cover doing nothing but sucking thumb is not fun nor challenging (Modern Military Shooter/CoD clone). Regenerating health removes all sense of danger from the game because you know that you will be just fine in a few seconds by doing absolutely nothing. This is called dumbing down a game. If you compare any 90's FPS to an FPS after 2007 that is non-indie, you will see that the latter one is significantly more easier than the game from the 90's. The reason why is that, is because Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare was released in 2007 and it really good sales because of un-fair tactics. Game being made as easy as possible and flashy as possible since explosions come every 2 seconds.

There are now a few good FPS games such as Wrack, Hard Reset (2012), Serious Sam3 (2011), Blood Dragon (2013), Rise of the Triad remake (2013) and Shadow Warrior 2013. But they are from Indie developers. Mainstream FPS are still the Call of Duty clones. Latest clones being 2013 Alien Rage and Aliens: Colonial Marines. I want to know also what people think of those better games such as Hard Reset and Shadow Warrior 2013? Blood Dragon is the closest to modern mechanics but somehow it's still very enjoyable. Though i absoltely hate the ironsights thing about Blood Dragon. There is one mainstream old school inspired FPS which is Wolfenstein: The New Order (2014) yet to come. WTNO's scheduled release date is January 2014 and it is supposed to bring the best out of modern FPS gameplay as best from old school FPS gameplay. Semi regenerating health so you regenerate from 5%hp up %25hp and then need to pickup a medkit to get past %25hp etc..

Lastly. This post isn't only about the singleplayer. The multiplayer is also some true garbage at the moment. Call of Duty and it's likes take no skill. Battlefield 3-4 according to my information takes atleast a bit of skill but still nowhere near the likes of Counter-Strike, Unreal Tournament or Quake Live. I dare any CoD fanboy give Quake Live a try. It won't take any of your precious harddrive space since it's an free2play game that plays directly on your web browser without any actual complicated installation wizards. That gamepace of Quake Live and old school FPS in general is ridiciolous compared to Call of Duty and all modern FPS because modern FPS are so slowpaced. www.quakelive.com and see the difference for yourself.

Also check this updated parody about modern FPS.
If DooM was done today (part3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F0AdWBmiQY

Copied Call of Duty cutscene
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/06/is-this-call-of-duty-ghosts-cutscene-copied-from-modern-warfare-2

tldbr

-CoD's un-fair success has brought significant amount of CoD-clones

-Modern FPS gameplay mechanics

-Few good moderntime released FPS games.

-Thoughts on Wolfenstein: The New Order.

-Quake Live
丂ア乇丂丂ひ_丂乃 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 11월 27일 오후 5시 18분
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Ultimate Anime GF 2013년 11월 29일 오후 2시 25분 
spessu_sb님이 먼저 게시:
Hey there!

I thought it would be good to have some discussion about the state of FPS genre once again. Now that Call of Duty: Ghosts has received bad reception and has been shown publicly that CoD: Ghosts has receclyd a fulllength cutscene from Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2,

I haven't paid any attention to CoD since MW2, but this sort of thing doesn't surprise me at all.

spessu_sb님이 먼저 게시:
it is very obvious that this game is not anything else but milking and actually a true cancer to videogame industry due to the stagnation it has brought with it's un-fair success.

lol, "un-fair success." I think it would only be un-fair if Activision/IW was actually responsible for creating the hordes of gaming zombies that continue to suck down every iteration of their digitized garbage, year after year. Activision/IW and their copycats are just exploiting a pre-existing phenomenon.

spessu_sb님이 먼저 게시:
The Call of Duty series only succeeded because Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare lowered the skill level to such level, where a non-gamer could pick up the game and be good in the game immediately.

Call of Duty 3 was the first CoD that I played, and I found it to be much more enjoyable (in terms of online multiplayer) than any of the titles that followed. For me, it wasn't so much a change in "skill level" that signalled the qualitative decline of CoD as it was the addition of the perks system and other gimmicky crap to make up for a lack of actual innovation, culminating in the cluster**** of bull**** that was MW2's online multiplayer.
Shasow 2013년 11월 29일 오후 2시 30분 
I disagree with most of this thread.
"Regenerating health, sprintburst which disables running and gunning, weaponlimit, aiming down sights, "
These aren't issues.

"all of these games rely around covershoot gameplay because regenerating health removes the possibilty to go Rambo due to dying from 2-3 hits. "
This doesn't even make sense. Stopped reading after this.
Ultimate Anime GF 2013년 11월 29일 오후 2시 47분 
Yeah, spessu_sb's criticism here is kinda sloppy in places, but the overall claim of CoD's prominent role in the degeneration of FPS games is still solid.
Shasow 2013년 11월 29일 오후 3시 01분 
There is also nothing wrong with any of the games you have listed (other than Battlefield and CoD). "Bioshock 3" doesn't even exist. Far Cry 3 was probably the best game of 2012. Wolfenstein, Duke Nukem, Crysis - seriously? Are you calling those games terrible because they have the ability to AIM DOWN SIGHTS? Not sure if you've ever seen a real gun before.... And sprinting... /facepalm Not sure if you've ever been outside before.... And in real life, you can't carry an unlimited amount of weapons with you.
Shasow 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 11월 29일 오후 3시 05분
Soundpulse 2013년 11월 29일 오후 3시 02분 
Shasow님이 먼저 게시:
"Bioshock 3" doesn't even exist.
By Bioshock 3, I'm sure he meant Bioshock Infinite
a very dead man 2013년 11월 30일 오전 3시 21분 
ATBA Fez Wearing Dalek님이 먼저 게시:
I believe that the scout iz SPY님이 먼저 게시:
FPS is always gunpowder and energy based weapons... anything that can throw a projectile is a FPS so don't question what I just said in that manner
What about Transformers: War for Cybertron? That's a TPS. (Third-Person Shooter)
Tis a Third person shooter... So its quite unrelated to the topic of this discussion
Which is FPS games :p
Dead Memes lol 2013년 11월 30일 오전 3시 43분 
My description of shooters :3

See that direction? CS:GO over there. I'm starting TF2 get bored of your crappy shooters. have a Medal of Honor, and stop boasing that you've spent over 1000h on a crappy online Battlefield. Get a Half-Life and see if CoD will be remembred when the shooter meets it's Doom. I can assure you, it will be dug up in a Tomb Raider, and no-one will have a Fear about the fact it has a Wolfenstien companion. The series is in a Crysis and doesn't have a Halo. People gatting RAGE in the Metro system is starting to get annoying, so go and die, CoD.
jmplowe 2013년 11월 30일 오전 3시 45분 
Personally, I really appreciate that the dog doesn't die in CoD: Ghosts. Normally people kill off the dog for an easy heartstring tug, but they resisted, so I give them at least a little bit of credit.
RiggedMig 2013년 11월 30일 오전 4시 16분 
Although I agree with your critisism about CoD, (If only the devs would donate all of the money they earned to Africa) I do feel it is unfair to critisise a game because of aiming down sights and sprinting.
Ineffable Anathema 2013년 11월 30일 오전 5시 44분 
Why the heck are you not playing Killing Floor?

First person, awesome weapons, multiple different perks, and true co-op gameplay. What more do you need?

Oh yeah, and ZOMBIES.
丂ア乇丂丂ひ_丂乃 2013년 11월 30일 오전 8시 11분 
Shasow님이 먼저 게시:
I disagree with most of this thread.
"Regenerating health, sprintburst which disables running and gunning, weaponlimit, aiming down sights, "
These aren't issues.

If you have been raised by DooM and Quake, and not by Call of Duty. Then yes, they are issues.

Shasow님이 먼저 게시:
I disagree with most of this thread.
"all of these games rely around covershoot gameplay because regenerating health removes the possibilty to go Rambo due to dying from 2-3 hits. "
This doesn't even make sense. Stopped reading after this.

Doesn't make sense? Huh, how come not? You die from 2-5 hits in Duke Nukem Forever, CoD and pretty much every other regen game also, such as Killzone or Medal of Honor.

Are you sincerly saying that regen allowes to go more rambo than traditional manual health management? I certainly can take alot more bullets in Duke 3D, DooM, Serious Sam, Hard Reset and pretty much every traditional FPS than any regen health game. The reason is because regen=stay behind cover.


Shasow님이 먼저 게시:
There is also nothing wrong with any of the games you have listed (other than Battlefield and CoD). "Bioshock 3" doesn't even exist. Far Cry 3 was probably the best game of 2012. Wolfenstein, Duke Nukem, Crysis - seriously? Are you calling those games terrible because they have the ability to AIM DOWN SIGHTS? Not sure if you've ever seen a real gun before.... And sprinting... /facepalm Not sure if you've ever been outside before.... And in real life, you can't carry an unlimited amount of weapons with you.

There are plenty of wrong with the listed games. They are all CoD clones. Meaning they feel identical gameplaywise. Far Cry 3 feels CoD even more than Far Cry 2, and i already had difficult time accepting FC2 gameplay. I see that you have 100+ hrs in Call of Duty and therefore i don't expect you to understand.

FC3 is definitely not GOTY of 2012. Better candidates are Hard Reset (Exile addon completes the 2011 release which ended up early due to indie budget) or Alan Wake (PC release date) due to innovative and refreshing gameplay. FC3 is just another generic modern shooter. And if not thinking the semi health regen and openworld level desing. There isn't much different compared to CoD. Hard Reset has nothing similar to CoD. The game is set on Cyberpunk, has two weapons which have 10+ alternate fire types (such as electricity, rocketlauncher, minigun and railgun..) and non-regen health with level design that has secrets and requires traditional resource management inorder to survive.

Aim down sights has become popular because most games are simply console ports. Aim down sights is being used on consoles because the thumbstick is not precise if you turn and have to precisely aim also. Thats why the game is put on a high sensitivity when hip fire mode and low sensitivity when aim down sights. PC doesn't need any ironsights since mouse aiming with hipfire has worked well since 1992 (Wolfenstein 3D). Hard Reset doesn't have ads and basically Serious Sam 3 doesn't either, because the ads that is in Serious Sam 3, is only with two weapons of the all 15 weapons. It's there only because the first few levels are a parody of modern FPS due to their linearity and boring feel.

Sprinting. Again, to make console players be able to hit with their ironsights. Play Unreal Tournament or Quake Live and tell me how often people stop to shoot. They don't. The fight is moving while you are perfectly defending yourself. Sprintburst is part of dumbing down since when you evade with sprint, you are incapable of defending yourself (casual friendly, easier gameplay for the one shooting you) while in Quake Live you evade and defend simultaneously because you can run and shoot at the same time (non-casual friendly, takes skill to be good at). Again, every videogame is not supposed to be about realism. And if the majority of moderntime released (2007-) FPS has been nothing but CoD clones, surely it gets annoying that you cannot run and gun in a SCIFI FPS like Killzone, Bulletstorm or Rage?. Tell me again why cant you do something in an SCIFI FPS? It's SCIFI already, so obviously it's not about realism.

Since when has realism been more fun than imagination? Realism limits things you can do, realism limits fun because im sorry but if you want realism, howabout opening that door and going outdoors or simply firing up Arma? Videogames are more an escape from reality. So why would i want to relive reality with videogames? Imagination is alot more fun. You have endless possibilities whereas with realism you can only go so far until the limits come. Eg. you can't start flying from the ground on your own in reality, but imagination enables it. You can't have cities that are sky high with flying cars and floating bilboardsings, but imagination enables it. With imagination there are literally no limits on what you can, and what you cannot do, so it's alot more versatile compared to reality. And god knows we've have had more than enough already of these "realistic" modern shooters.
丂ア乇丂丂ひ_丂乃 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 11월 30일 오전 10시 35분
WhiteKnight77 2013년 11월 30일 오전 9시 00분 
ATBA Fez Wearing Dalek님이 먼저 게시:
WhiteKnight77님이 먼저 게시:

No, developers should look at bringing something fresh to the FPS genre instead of recycling the same garbage over and over.
We have Valve for that. They're basically the only ones bringing something new. However, seriously? Gaming companies need to find a new genre for at least a day.
Why does Valve have to be the only developer bringing something new to the FPS genre? Why can't someone else?

I do know of a developer who is trying to do just that. Why not take and build a game from the ground up without developing around a specific mechanic? The dev I am talking about is doing just that. Why not make it so a mechanic cannot be misused (think bunny hopping)? Sure, people can jump, but should they especially with 50+ pounds of equipment on his back or when wearing body armor? Why not attach a penalty to being able to jump such as not being able to hit a whatever you are trying to shoot at and the fact that jumping makes you a target instead? This would be the complete opposite of what CoD has (unless they removed jumping from it after the first version of it which I doubt).

CoD had med kits (and I guess now regenerating health where if you sit out of the action for a bit you regain full health). Why does a game have to have that? Why can't there be a medic that can treat a wound, but you stay wounded, but still able to fight, even at a reduced capability? Also, most games require multiple shots before a target goes down or your character is a bullet sponge. Why not remove that from a game and make it a one or two shot game where you might not necessarily live depending on where you are hit? A chest shot or a head shot will kill someone in real life more often than not. Games can reflect that just as easily.

What about weapons? I already asked above, why not get rid of the reasons why someone would carry an M24 instead of an M4? Make it so the gamer pays a penalty for carrying a sniper rifle instead of a carbine. The same is true of the opposite, there is no reason why someone can snipe someone across the map with a shotgun when the effective range of shotguns are mere yards and not hundreds of yards.

See, I already know of a developer who is doing that. Will they have a huge following? Probably not at first, but there is hope of tapping into the previous market that GR (not the garbage made after Ubi bought RSE) had (though it remains to be seen). Even though the owner no longer works for RSE (Lead Level Designer for RS/UO and GR/DS/IT), he has been contracted by them for levels as well as contract work for Tripwire RO2, the US Army and Air Force (working on simulations for SpecOps teams), and has entered partnerships with Doorkickers and Killhouse games (gotta have income to develop a game so doing contract work helps pay bills). They are also a PS4/PS Vita developer as well as Steamworks. They also have been licensed to use UE4. Although it isn't guaranteed, he wants to bring the company's game to the PS4 without changing gameplay or removing features from it (though there will be changed to facilitate use of a controller instead of a mouse and keyboard).

As I said, there is no reason why a developer can't bring something new to the FPS genre, it's just that most do not care to try and prefer to make flavor of the month type games that get discarded as soon as the next one comes out.
WhiteKnight77 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 11월 30일 오전 9시 01분
丂ア乇丂丂ひ_丂乃 2013년 11월 30일 오전 9시 10분 
SlaughterMcKill님이 먼저 게시:
lol, "un-fair success." I think it would only be un-fair if Activision/IW was actually responsible for creating the hordes of gaming zombies that continue to suck down every iteration of their digitized garbage, year after year. Activision/IW and their copycats are just exploiting a pre-existing phenomenon.

You don't think what i'm about to tell you, is un-fair?

Every game dev uptil 2007 had been trying to make the best possible kinda game with good challenge (singleplayer and multiplayer). And then these suckers at Activision thought "what if we make it so easy that we could have a totally new audience (casual gamers). That way we could have record amount of sales". And they did have record amount of sales, because not only of game being super easy so that anyone can play it and be good at it, but because they have also bribed the reviews to get good scores. CoD 4 added all those perks and streaks and very much randomness just like Tripwire president has said.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/13/call-of-duty-red-orchestra-2-interview/
丂ア乇丂丂ひ_丂乃 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 11월 30일 오전 10시 23분
Ultimate Anime GF 2013년 11월 30일 오후 3시 40분 
spessu_sb님이 먼저 게시:
You don't think what i'm about to tell you, is un-fair?

Every game dev uptil 2007 had been trying to make the best possible kinda game with good challenge (singleplayer and multiplayer).

The "Halo Ruined FPS Gaming" faction might take issue with that claim.

spessu_sb님이 먼저 게시:
And then these suckers at Activision thought "what if we make it so easy that we could have a totally new audience (casual gamers). That way we could have record amount of sales". And they did have record amount of sales, because not only of game being super easy so that anyone can play it and be good at it, but because they have also bribed the reviews to get good scores. CoD 4 added all those perks and streaks and very much randomness just like Tripwire president has said.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/13/call-of-duty-red-orchestra-2-interview/

I'll admit that I have an acquired bias towards viewing claims of "un-fairness" as more an admission of weakness than an exposure of underhanded/dirty (business) practices, but I still don't think it applies that much here. They found a naturally-occuring phenomenon (casual gamers) and they manipulated/exploited it by using obscene amounts of advertising (including those bribed reviews you mentioned) to promote a nice-looking, mob-oriented degeneration of a franchise, just as any other major company producing FPS games was free to do. The immense success and profits they achieved from this was a signal to other FPS-making companies to imitate their example, hence the FPS genre getting overcrowded with CoD-esque stagnation. This wasn't made possible by the greed or malice of Activision/IW, this was made possible by the sheepishness and low standards of gaming zombies/the mob.
Ultimate Anime GF 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 11월 30일 오후 4시 04분
Mr Keefy 2013년 11월 30일 오후 4시 16분 

There is a reason Why Unreal 3 and Quake 4 Quake Live ddnt catch on. Most gamers dotn want to spend time practicing tens of hours just to be able to move bout the maps faster

The unreals and Quakes and Dooms were popular because that is all there was at the time, they literally were the best.
Mr Keefy 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2013년 11월 30일 오후 4시 19분
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