what exactly is a soulslike? what counts and what doesn't

[sleeps]

on top of that, what exactly is a roguelike?

[Electric Cupcake]

It's pretty funny seeing people play the recent Ninja Gaiden 2 remake and talk about how it's soulslike.

Onimusha, Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden were doing moderately-challenging 3rd person hack and slash long before any "souls"

[salamander]

to a game journalist: everything is a soulslike

to everyone else: a soulslike is a game inspired by and containing elements of hidetaka miyazakis fromsoft games.

[sleeps]

funny. to those games that claim to be a soulslike, it's rarely alike. calling it a "like" is way too vague. lies of p is probably the closest to its genre. everything else feels like nonsensical marketing attempt

[Masque]

"on top of that, what exactly is a roguelike?"

LOL you're just asking for the world's biggest argument thread,

Why not add "And also, while we're at it, what's communism and define heavy metal."

[Masque]

Originally posted by Electric Cupcake:

It's pretty funny seeing people play the recent Ninja Gaiden 2 remake and talk about how it's soulslike.

Onimusha, Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden were doing moderately-challenging 3rd person hack and slash long before any "souls"

Do they rely on parrying too? I think "soulslike" and I think parrying. Lots and lots of it, absolutely perfectly timed or you see "Game Over".

I don't know, though, I have no dog in this fight except I never download anything that says "soulslike" in the tags. That tag just means "you won't like this game" to me.

Roguelike, on the other hand, I buy those. Even though the tag is usually a lie using the new, modern definition that bears no relation to the former definition. (In Rogue, Nethack, Angband, Crawl, etc., nothing carried over after death. Nothing. No progression. Nada. Squat.) Now the term means, among other things like procedurally generated levels, "game where lots of meta progression carries over after death". Okay cool we're inverting things to their opposites now, but I can dig the new lingo. I'm flexible.

[Electric Cupcake]

Originally posted by Masque:

Originally posted by Electric Cupcake:

It's pretty funny seeing people play the recent Ninja Gaiden 2 remake and talk about how it's soulslike.

Onimusha, Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden were doing moderately-challenging 3rd person hack and slash long before any "souls"

Do they rely on parrying too? I think "soulslike" and I think parrying. Lots and lots of it, absolutely perfectly timed or you see "Game Over".

The carefully-timed counterattack is a strong mechanic once you learn it, but since even the lowest mooks can break your guard, staying mobile is the best defense.

[Masque]

I'm seeing side-scrollers being called "soulslike" in the Store now.

I'm guessing the term is being used to denote a combination of parry-intensive combat and difficulty based on timing of blocks and parrys. And more punishing and frequent dying than most side-scrolling games.

I think Salt and Sanctuary was one of those. And it's sequel. And I sucked at it.

[peppermint hollows]

I've seen a lot of people (even non-journalists) call anything that's hard and has a dark atmosphere a souls-like. It's easy to find a ton of people calling Hollow Knight a souls-like which I firmly disagree with. It's not, it's a metroidvania. It does have some mechanical overlap (like the benches and having to collect your shade upon dying) but at its core, it's still much more like a metroidvania.

Meh, but then again it could be argued Dark Souls (especially DS1 and DS2 which were much more non-linear compared to DS3) is almost like a 3d metroidvania.

It's honestly hard for me to describe exactly what makes the Fromsoft Souls games feel the way they do. All I can say from what I've played and seen all the games that are labeled souls-like or market themselves as such are totally sauceless and miss the mark. It's that or they are more fast paced and arcadey and feel more like what I'd describe as a hack and slash than like dark souls. It's somewhat close, but not exactly the same. Dark Souls isn't combo heavy after all, it's in fact deceptively simple.

[Electric Cupcake]

Originally posted by Masque:

I'm seeing side-scrollers being called "soulslike" in the Store now.

I'm guessing the term is being used to denote a combination of parry-intensive combat and difficulty based on timing of blocks and parrys. And more punishing and frequent dying than most side-scrolling games.

I think Salt and Sanctuary was one of those. And it's sequel. And I sucked at it.

Shovel Knight makes you drop money when you die and try to back to where you were to retrieve it. Of course, with them shamefully shoehorning rewind cheat and savescumming in for the DX remaster, literally all challenge and difficulty is nullified.

[generic_user_0001]

soulslike: boss strong, you are weak and you suck and losing is fun - very sweaty genre for weirdos that like to brag
roguelike: rpg in a procedural generated dungeon or map, heavily relies on rng