Why do you not like Sandbox games?

[Tux]

and why do you prefer Story based character driven games?

[Crystal_Ignition (exo)]

survival games i find fun, then i drop it. minecraft will always be the one that i can actaully stay long term cause its not just building a house and survivng, its also about building the wacky things. build whatever your imagination can build then pretend it works (i never got mods to work)

also creative BAH HUMBUG, only survival can make it really feel special

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por FuG chibilibi:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

this is all interesting to me. I can help explain sandbox to some of you but I doubt I would change the experience you are haivng because its a bit like a painting you either like or dont like.

the 'story' you experience in a sandbox game is the story you create by interacting with the game. Example.

Currently in my 7 Days to Die game play I needed to get food and water, lots of iron etc so that I can build my first base to get me thru the 7th day alive.

I built it, I made it thru the night...story 1 complete.

Now I really could use a better food source but where I am dose not have much food, so I need to find some things I can grow. Only problem is the nearest town is so far it will take me a full day to go back and forth. I can do that, so I need to build a second base. However, the horde on day 14 will be stronger so I need to make a larger base in the same amount of time.

There are multiple stories in that player experience. as well as multple goals. its just not spelled out for you.

And that's why I don't like them. I need a long-term goal, something way off in the future to be working towards. Even Skyrim has goals like that. All the side quests and adventuring you do is leading up to one thing: killing Alduin (or Miraak if you have the Dragonborn expansion and you have it set up so that Miraak is level 100 and DB doesn't start until after you've killed Alduin).

All of these sandbox games tout "survive and build stuff and do whatever you want" as the thing that will get you hooked, but there's only so long one can survive before getting bored.

In Minecraft (before you say "but not all sandbox survival games are like Minecraft!" they seem to all have this problem), this is what usually ends up happening:

1. I spawn into the world.
2. I get tools.
3. I burrow into a mountain or climb on top of a mountain or something
4. Survive the night
5. Get seeds
6. Build a farm
7. Continue expanding house until it contains all the necessary things (bedroom, garbage disposal, tree farm, etc.)
8. Done

This is how basically every world in MC goes for me, and whenever I look at all the other "build! craft! survive!" games, they all seem to have the exact same problem. I'll build a base, expand it, and be done. And when you've done that once, you've effectively done it in every survival game ever.

The TL;DR of it is that I find that all survival games are basically just variations on the Minecraft formula, and that I don't think the vague "goal" of surviving is all that interesting to play.

fair enough however to be 'done' in 7 Days to Die it takes a min or 14 real life hours to complete phase 1.

How many story based games last 14 hours for the main story?


Kerbal Space Program has missions so I am not sure if you would consider a game with 'contracts' that you have the choice to play or not as a sandbox but people do consider it a sandbox game

[supertrooper225]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

Escrito originalmente por FuG chibilibi:

And that's why I don't like them. I need a long-term goal, something way off in the future to be working towards. Even Skyrim has goals like that. All the side quests and adventuring you do is leading up to one thing: killing Alduin (or Miraak if you have the Dragonborn expansion and you have it set up so that Miraak is level 100 and DB doesn't start until after you've killed Alduin).

All of these sandbox games tout "survive and build stuff and do whatever you want" as the thing that will get you hooked, but there's only so long one can survive before getting bored.

In Minecraft (before you say "but not all sandbox survival games are like Minecraft!" they seem to all have this problem), this is what usually ends up happening:

1. I spawn into the world.
2. I get tools.
3. I burrow into a mountain or climb on top of a mountain or something
4. Survive the night
5. Get seeds
6. Build a farm
7. Continue expanding house until it contains all the necessary things (bedroom, garbage disposal, tree farm, etc.)
8. Done

This is how basically every world in MC goes for me, and whenever I look at all the other "build! craft! survive!" games, they all seem to have the exact same problem. I'll build a base, expand it, and be done. And when you've done that once, you've effectively done it in every survival game ever.

The TL;DR of it is that I find that all survival games are basically just variations on the Minecraft formula, and that I don't think the vague "goal" of surviving is all that interesting to play.

fair enough however to be 'done' in 7 Days to Die it takes a min or 14 real life hours to complete phase 1.

How many story based games last 14 hours for the main story?


Kerbal Space Program has missions so I am not sure if you would consider a game with 'contracts' that you have the choice to play or not as a sandbox but people do consider it a sandbox game

There are TONS of story based games that last longer than 14 hours for the main story. But the story DOES eventually end. I guess the appeal of a survival game is that they are endlessly repeatable as long as the user enjoys the gameplay. Story kind of gets in the way of that. Repeating a story can make a game feel more repetitous that it really is.

[McFlurry Butts]

I find a lot of bad sand box games lack a lot of goals or just grind for exp which eventually leads to nothing interesting. It's a lot more fun when you have friends and groups of people going at each others' throats all the time like DayZ.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por supertrooper225:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

fair enough however to be 'done' in 7 Days to Die it takes a min or 14 real life hours to complete phase 1.

How many story based games last 14 hours for the main story?


Kerbal Space Program has missions so I am not sure if you would consider a game with 'contracts' that you have the choice to play or not as a sandbox but people do consider it a sandbox game

There are TONS of story based games that last longer than 14 hours for the main story. But the story DOES eventually end. I guess the appeal of a survival game is that they are endlessly repeatable as long as the user enjoys the gameplay. Story kind of gets in the way of that. Repeating a story can make a game feel more repetitous that it relaly is.

fair enough I just often have read posts or seen reviews where a player would say 'i finished the main quesiton in like 3 hours!' but to be fair I dont play the type of games that would give me a good feel for the average.

[Tux]

all you guys playing minecraft. You really need to expand your horizons

[supertrooper225]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

Escrito originalmente por supertrooper225:

There are TONS of story based games that last longer than 14 hours for the main story. But the story DOES eventually end. I guess the appeal of a survival game is that they are endlessly repeatable as long as the user enjoys the gameplay. Story kind of gets in the way of that. Repeating a story can make a game feel more repetitous that it relaly is.

fair enough I just often have read posts or seen reviews where a player would say 'i finished the main quesiton in like 3 hours!' but to be fair I dont play the type of games that would give me a good feel for the average.

Yea....for instance. Resident Evil 4 can be like 15-20 hours for a first playthrough. Far Cry 3 can last even longer (and probably will depending on how long you spend on the side stuff)....Dragon Age Origins.....Freaking 50-80 hours just for the story content!

Just depends on the type of game. Diablo style games aren't even played for the story. They can be played just about endlessly for the loot and other things. You just play those to make your numbers go up to Godliness.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por supertrooper225:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

I guess the appeal of a survival game is that they are endlessly repeatable as long as the user enjoys the gameplay. Story kind of gets in the way of that. Repeating a story can make a game feel more repetitous that it really is.

you bring up a good point.

I have 200+ hours in 7 Days to Die now and I am just now on my first long term game save.

Reason for that is because every game starts a little different and its fun to experiment different approaches.
Not to mention having a good first 14 days (game days) is very helpful in the long game

[chibilibi]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

fair enough however to be 'done' in 7 Days to Die it takes a min or 14 real life hours to complete phase 1.

How many story based games last 14 hours for the main story?

There's actually quite a few "story-based" games that last that long or longer. However, one thing to keep in mind is that length =/= quality. I'd personally rather have a 3 hour game that's fantastic than a 40 hour game that's mediocre.

Anyway, I also don't think "story-based" is a good descriptor for non-sandbox games. Rather, I think "structured" is perhaps a better way to describe them. Take VVVVVV for instance. It's certainly not a sandbox game, but it's also not really focused on story at all.

Tux, I think you perhaps should do as you tell us to do in this post:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

all you guys playing minecraft. You really need to expand your horizons

Try some of these "story-based" games. I've got a few recommendations:

Hotline Miami
Half Life 2
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Darksiders 2
Gunpoint
LIMBO

Particularly Gunpoint and Hotline Miami.

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por FuG chibilibi:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

fair enough however to be 'done' in 7 Days to Die it takes a min or 14 real life hours to complete phase 1.

How many story based games last 14 hours for the main story?

There's actually quite a few "story-based" games that last that long or longer. However, one thing to keep in mind is that length =/= quality. I'd personally rather have a 3 hour game that's fantastic than a 40 hour game that's mediocre.

Anyway, I also don't think "story-based" is a good descriptor for non-sandbox games. Rather, I think "structured" is perhaps a better way to describe them. Take VVVVVV for instance. It's certainly not a sandbox game, but it's also not really focused on story at all.

Tux, I think you perhaps should do as you tell us to do in this post:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

all you guys playing minecraft. You really need to expand your horizons

Try some of these "story-based" games. I've got a few recommendations:

Hotline Miami
Half Life 2
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Darksiders 2
Gunpoint
LIMBO

Particularly Gunpoint and Hotline Miami.

I was just struggling with trying to describe AAA games without using the term AAA.

That said, the day I try another story based game is the day the recomender tries 7 Days to Die :)

[Skeleton Minion]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

Escrito originalmente por FuG chibilibi:

And that's why I don't like them. I need a long-term goal, something way off in the future to be working towards. Even Skyrim has goals like that. All the side quests and adventuring you do is leading up to one thing: killing Alduin (or Miraak if you have the Dragonborn expansion and you have it set up so that Miraak is level 100 and DB doesn't start until after you've killed Alduin).

All of these sandbox games tout "survive and build stuff and do whatever you want" as the thing that will get you hooked, but there's only so long one can survive before getting bored.

In Minecraft (before you say "but not all sandbox survival games are like Minecraft!" they seem to all have this problem), this is what usually ends up happening:

1. I spawn into the world.
2. I get tools.
3. I burrow into a mountain or climb on top of a mountain or something
4. Survive the night
5. Get seeds
6. Build a farm
7. Continue expanding house until it contains all the necessary things (bedroom, garbage disposal, tree farm, etc.)
8. Done

This is how basically every world in MC goes for me, and whenever I look at all the other "build! craft! survive!" games, they all seem to have the exact same problem. I'll build a base, expand it, and be done. And when you've done that once, you've effectively done it in every survival game ever.

The TL;DR of it is that I find that all survival games are basically just variations on the Minecraft formula, and that I don't think the vague "goal" of surviving is all that interesting to play.

fair enough however to be 'done' in 7 Days to Die it takes a min or 14 real life hours to complete phase 1.

How many story based games last 14 hours for the main story?


Kerbal Space Program has missions so I am not sure if you would consider a game with 'contracts' that you have the choice to play or not as a sandbox but people do consider it a sandbox game

Dark Souls 2. It takes more time to get through it than any game I've played.

[CJHRRIHRH]

Escrito originalmente por FuG chibilibi:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

fair enough however to be 'done' in 7 Days to Die it takes a min or 14 real life hours to complete phase 1.

How many story based games last 14 hours for the main story?

There's actually quite a few "story-based" games that last that long or longer. However, one thing to keep in mind is that length =/= quality. I'd personally rather have a 3 hour game that's fantastic than a 40 hour game that's mediocre.

Anyway, I also don't think "story-based" is a good descriptor for non-sandbox games. Rather, I think "structured" is perhaps a better way to describe them.

There are a hell of a lot of 'story-based' games that are over 14 hours, most rpgs for example. Also length isn't everything. Bear in mind not everyone has forever to play games so a shorter, more structured experience might be better for them than the endless exploring and grind of sandbox games. I remember playing Dead Space and not completing it because I thought the game should have been over at 8 hours and that continuing to play just wasn't enjoyable any more.

Having actual characters gives you something more human to attach to rather than the hollow progression of sandbox games which reduces everything to what's most efficient. Why'd you pick to team with/kill someone in Day Z? Purely based on risk/reward. But why'd you pick Tali over Jack in mass effect 2 is a far more personal decision and as a result you are a lot more invested.

Remember that a lot of 'story based' games like rpgs have a lot of different choices so you can replay them and experience something new each time. Whereas in a sandbox game once you've seen all there is to offer there's nothing really new. Sandbox games end when you get bored. And you will eventually get bored. But story games end in a structured way so they don't just fizzle out but are enjoyable up to the end and you leave satisfied (if they're done right that is).

Edit: I'd also recommend Dark Souls 2. It's got a strong emphasis on exploration like sandbox games but it's structured to be challenging. There's a random element to invasions and there is a slow meaningful character progression, and the story isn't crammed down your throat but you have to work to uncover it (or go onto youtube).

[ronotogoato]

i like them, http://www.eversostrange.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/wombat-e1296469276445.jpg

[Tux]

Escrito originalmente por Corporal_Lewis:

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

fair enough however to be 'done' in 7 Days to Die it takes a min or 14 real life hours to complete phase 1.

How many story based games last 14 hours for the main story?


Kerbal Space Program has missions so I am not sure if you would consider a game with 'contracts' that you have the choice to play or not as a sandbox but people do consider it a sandbox game

Dark Souls 2. It takes more time to get through it than any game I've played.

like I said...

the day I try a story based game is the day the person who recomededs a story based game will try 7 Days to Die first.

[supertrooper225]

Escrito originalmente por Tux:

Escrito originalmente por Corporal_Lewis:

Dark Souls 2. It takes more time to get through it than any game I've played.

like I said...

the day I try a story based game is the day the person who recomededs a story based game will try 7 Days to Die first.

I prefer story games and I have already tried 7 Days to Die. It is OK. Nothing unbelievable in my opinion.