If I report my neighbors to ICE when can I expect them to show up?

[Fosty]

Has anyone got experience with this?

[Dom]

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

Nguyên văn bởi Dom:

Every single person breaks the law in their lives. So, by that definition alone all people are criminals. So when people say that 100% of undocumented migrants are criminals, that is basically strawmanning in a similar manner.

Unfortunately, Donald Trump's MAGA administration removed peer-reviewed studies from National Institute of Justice (government website) so they're actively doing their best to get rid of the most reputable sources as we're talking.

Can have NPR instead. Although many others are out there too.
https://www.npr.org/2024/03/08/1237103158/immigrants-are-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-than-us-born-americans-studies-find

Great, you've convinced me. They're still illegal aliens and need to go. So, you've convinced me they aren't criminals...

But, now their home country is refusing them for being what you're saying they're not...

So what now?

I don't know what you're referring to. I mean, Colombia specifically stated that they don't think their undocumented citizens in the US are criminals and hence for that reason they were objected to them being chained and handcuffed. Like what is usually done to criminals.

What I can tell you though, is that I don't have an answer to "what now?" question. Countries can refuse flights as much as they want to. As soon as US military aircraft is told to exit foreign airspace, they're forced to comply. It's kind of a shrug thing but it is what it is.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

Nguyên văn bởi Boblin the Goblin:

You're assuming all illegals are here because they are rejected from their home country for crimes.

The topic you're involved in changed to Guantanamo Bay. The process to get to that point is that they've been refused by their home countries.

Outside of Guantanamo Bay, all illegal aliens need to go home. Regardless of criminal status.

Even with kids born in the US?

[Ray Rook]

Nguyên văn bởi Dom:

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

Great, you've convinced me. They're still illegal aliens and need to go. So, you've convinced me they aren't criminals...

But, now their home country is refusing them for being what you're saying they're not...

So what now?

I don't know what you're referring to. I mean, Colombia specifically stated that they don't think their undocumented citizens in the US are criminals and hence for that reason they were objected to them being chained and handcuffed. Like what is usually done to criminals.

What I can tell you though, is that I don't have an answer to "what now?" question. Countries can refuse flights as much as they want to. As soon as US military aircraft is told to exit foreign airspace, they're forced to comply. It's kind of a shurg thing but it is what it is.

Columbia is not what we're talking about. That flight is old news. Those deportees are in their home country. It has nothing to do with criminals or not or what we're talking about when it involves Guantanamo Bay.

[Ray Rook]

Nguyên văn bởi Boblin the Goblin:

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

The topic you're involved in changed to Guantanamo Bay. The process to get to that point is that they've been refused by their home countries.

Outside of Guantanamo Bay, all illegal aliens need to go home. Regardless of criminal status.

Even with kids born in the US?

Yes. They should follow a similar model as most major countries in the world. The US does not need to have a different standard here.

The unoffensive term is birth tourism. And it should absolutely be discouraged.

[Dom]

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

Nguyên văn bởi Dom:

I don't know what you're referring to. I mean, Colombia specifically stated that they don't think their undocumented citizens in the US are criminals and hence for that reason they were objected to them being chained and handcuffed. Like what is usually done to criminals.

What I can tell you though, is that I don't have an answer to "what now?" question. Countries can refuse flights as much as they want to. As soon as US military aircraft is told to exit foreign airspace, they're forced to comply. It's kind of a shurg thing but it is what it is.

Columbia is not what we're talking about. That flight is old news. Those deportees are in their home country. It has nothing to do with criminals or not or what we're talking about when it involves Guantanamo Bay.

It still applies. When you say all undocumented people need to go home. You may think that way but many of them simply cannot. Some of them lack most if not all documentation to even properly figure out where they're coming from. Solving the origins of one person can take a very very long time. And even after all that insane investigative work that costs enormous amounts for the taxpayer, it's still totally dependent on how much the country that they come from will cooperate. There is nothing that requires them to.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

Nguyên văn bởi Boblin the Goblin:

Even with kids born in the US?

Yes. They should follow a similar model as most major countries in the world. The US does not need to have a different standard here.

The unoffensive term is birth tourism. And it should absolutely be discouraged.

So violate a US citizens rights then? Considering the 14th specifically states everyone born in the US is a citizen.


Oh, and about the Guantanamo thing, there isn't anything I can find saying it's only for those who are rejected by their country. In fact, the directive only talks about "high priority illegal aliens".

[Boblin the Goblin]

Nguyên văn bởi Dom:

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

Columbia is not what we're talking about. That flight is old news. Those deportees are in their home country. It has nothing to do with criminals or not or what we're talking about when it involves Guantanamo Bay.

It still applies. When you say all undocumented people need to go home. You may think that way but many of them simply cannot. Some of them lack most if not all documentation to even properly figure out where they're coming from. Solving the origins of one person can take a very very long time. And even after all that insane investigative work that costs enormous amounts for the taxpayer, it's still totally dependent on how much the country that they come from will cooperate. There is nothing that requires them to.

What's funny is during COVID, a lot of people couldn't renew their documentation in time because of how slow the whole process was. This caused a lot of lapses in their documents. Making it much harder/impossible to renew.

[Ray Rook]

Nguyên văn bởi Dom:

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

Columbia is not what we're talking about. That flight is old news. Those deportees are in their home country. It has nothing to do with criminals or not or what we're talking about when it involves Guantanamo Bay.

It still applies. When you say all undocumented people need to go home. You may think that way but many of them simply cannot. Some of them lack most if not all documentation to even properly figure out where they're coming from. Solving the origins of one person can take a very very long time. And even after all that insane investigate work, it's still totally dependent on how much the country that they come from will cooperate. There is nothing that requires them to.

There's nothing that requires us to help people who have come here and try to be obtuse about where they come from in a manipulative attempt to stay.

I would need to see an actual case of this to be better informed to have an opinion on it, but my initial gut reaction is... " So the ♥♥♥♥ what?" Why is it the US' job to figure it out? Give them food and water and show them the door back the way they came.

Also, niche cases like this don't disprove processes to address the majority of this problem.

And if it's larger than a niche case, that's a problem too.

This is the general problem with illegal immigrants and advocates for them. You all try to manipulate and circumvent ♥♥♥♥ in any fashion. It's disgusting. Get out. Be thankful for all the time you got.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

Nguyên văn bởi Dom:

It still applies. When you say all undocumented people need to go home. You may think that way but many of them simply cannot. Some of them lack most if not all documentation to even properly figure out where they're coming from. Solving the origins of one person can take a very very long time. And even after all that insane investigate work, it's still totally dependent on how much the country that they come from will cooperate. There is nothing that requires them to.

There's nothing that requires us to help people who have come here and try to be obtuse about where they come from in a manipulative attempt to stay.

I would need to see an actual case of this to be better informed to have an opinion on it, but my initial gut reaction is... " So the ♥♥♥♥ what?" Why is it the US' job to figure it out? Give them food and water and show them the door back the way they came.

Because the whole point is for the US to prove they aren't here legally. Not for them to prove their innocence.

[Ray Rook]

Nguyên văn bởi Boblin the Goblin:

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

There's nothing that requires us to help people who have come here and try to be obtuse about where they come from in a manipulative attempt to stay.

I would need to see an actual case of this to be better informed to have an opinion on it, but my initial gut reaction is... " So the ♥♥♥♥ what?" Why is it the US' job to figure it out? Give them food and water and show them the door back the way they came.

Because the whole point is for the US to prove they aren't here legally. Not for them to prove their innocence.

Oh, well, that's not actually a hard process like you're making it out to be.

Who are your parents?

Investigation done.

It's not hard to prove you're a US citizen. I thought you were arguing we wouldn't know where they were from. That would be more difficult. But to prove you're a US citizen is fairly easy.

[Dom]

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

Nguyên văn bởi Dom:

It still applies. When you say all undocumented people need to go home. You may think that way but many of them simply cannot. Some of them lack most if not all documentation to even properly figure out where they're coming from. Solving the origins of one person can take a very very long time. And even after all that insane investigate work, it's still totally dependent on how much the country that they come from will cooperate. There is nothing that requires them to.

There's nothing that requires us to help people who have come here and try to be obtuse about where they come from in a manipulative attempt to stay.

I would need to see an actual case of this to be better informed to have an opinion on it, but my initial gut reaction is... " So the ♥♥♥♥ what?" Why is it the US' job to figure it out? Give them food and water and show them the door back the way they came.

Showing the door back the way they came is basically worthless.

Either you deport them (figure it all out properly & cooperate with other countries), go full fashy and just stack them (10+ million people) somewhere (camps?) or let them actually live. There are basically three options.

If you can safely deport people and work it all out, that's fine, I'm generally not objected to that when certain preconditions are met. I'm also not objected to letting them live and contribute to the society to the extent to which they can if some 1930 style camp is the alternative option.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

Nguyên văn bởi Boblin the Goblin:

Because the whole point is for the US to prove they aren't here legally. Not for them to prove their innocence.

Oh, well, that's not actually a hard process like you're making it out to be.

Who are your parents?

Investigation done.

Someone's parents doesn't make them illegal. Also, as the 14th amendment says, everyone born in the US is a citizen.

[Ray Rook]

Nguyên văn bởi Boblin the Goblin:

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

Oh, well, that's not actually a hard process like you're making it out to be.

Who are your parents?

Investigation done.

Someone's parents doesn't make them illegal. Also, as the 14th amendment says, everyone born in the US is a citizen.

And this is where you all get manipulative. The intent of that Amendment was not for immigration purposes. Birth Tourism was not a big thing back then.

The original intent of that Amendment was for when enslaved African Americans were freed. It wasn't so you could sneak into the country and birth a baby.

But we'll see what the courts say on it.

Today, you're absolutely right. That's how it's been interpreted.

But, when you try to be manipulative about things... sometimes you experience a bad time when reality sets in.

We'll see what the courts say.

[Dom]

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

Nguyên văn bởi Boblin the Goblin:

Someone's parents doesn't make them illegal. Also, as the 14th amendment says, everyone born in the US is a citizen.

And this is where you all get manipulative. The intent of that Amendment was not for immigration purposes.

But we'll see what the courts say on it.

Today, you're absolutely right. That's how it's been interpreted.

But, when you try to be manipulative about things... sometimes you experience a bad time when reality sets in.

We'll see what the courts say.

I don't think there's much space there for these other interpretations. I mean, unless someone starts to argue that "all persons" doesn't mean children. Meaning children aren't people?

Ehh... eh eh.

That can turn out very dangerous. Children would also lose their human rights if such ruling were to be made.

[Ray Rook]

Nguyên văn bởi Dom:

Nguyên văn bởi Ray Rook:

And this is where you all get manipulative. The intent of that Amendment was not for immigration purposes.

But we'll see what the courts say on it.

Today, you're absolutely right. That's how it's been interpreted.

But, when you try to be manipulative about things... sometimes you experience a bad time when reality sets in.

We'll see what the courts say.

I don't think there's much space there for these other interpretations. I mean, unless someone starts to argue that "all persons" doesn't mean children. Meaning children aren't people?

Ehh... eh eh.

That can turn out very dangerous. Children would also lose their human rights if such ruling were to be made.

I don't have to argue with you about the 14th Amendment.

You're both right. It's read the way you are reading it and traditionally that's been how it's been used.

But, it's a risk you're taking with other people's lives.

The courts can figure that out. I'm not going to fight it out on Steam.

I wouldn't put my child through that risk.