Why DEI and being woke is actually pretty cool

[TheTravelingDemon]

I know there's a lot of pushback against DEI and the whole "woke" thing, it's got some real perks tho.

We're re-examining history through a modern lens, which can be pretty eye-opening. It's not about changing facts, it's about understanding different perspectives and now, even if you're not the best at your job, you can still get promoted because of equity. It's like everyone gets a participation trophy, but in real life.


Games for example have this way of teaching you about different perspectives through stories that tackle social issues or characters that break stereotypes, it's like learning ♥♥♥♥ while you're having fun.

The stories in games have gotten more interesting, now about real-world issues in nuanced ways than they used to be. It's not just about good vs evil. it's about the grey areas, which can be pretty thought provoking and sometimes better.

[King of Games]

引用自 tallgeese：

I think I broke him. Oops.

that sucks, best of luck with that. Atleast we finally agree though Woke = broke

[Dracoco OwO]

I do not deal with nonsense like that ♥♥♥♥. This is exactly why many reject these notions.

[Kestrel]

"Woke" is the term people use when minority characters or left-leaning political themes are poorly written or implemented. Thus, it's not what they are, but how they are presented that is the problem. However, people focus on what they are because they're biased against them. "Woke" in the way it's being used by 99% of people doesn't actually exist.

It's fair to criticize political themes, but the "political themes" that people are having problems with are literally just things like female characters not being attractive enough or a black character showing up in a historical fantasy series as a protagonist. These things should not be political or matter whatsoever, but they do because of the culture war people keep falling for.

I definitely think some people are trying to instigate a bit with such media, but how are they instigating? Literally just adding these characters and storylines to their creative works, which has people frothing in rabid anger for some reason lol. Like literally just look at this ♥♥♥♥ from an outside perspective for a bit: it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid. If you don't like it, don't give it a platform and certainly don't give them money for it.

It's extremely easy to criticize this ♥♥♥♥ without sounding bigoted, too. You literally just need to point out other factors of why you think the character or storyline is poorly written or implemented. If it does have to do with what they are, then you can point out why you think that aspect of them is poorly written and/or doesn't make sense (take the setting itself into account, because many media where people have problems with this are more in the fantasy/sci-fi realm where there's creative liberty).

I've seen people do this before and it works because they actually understand what the character should be and they respect that while pointing out how they're poorly done, while more bigoted people think they should just be race-swapped, or gender-swapped, or just otherwise have that aspect of their character entirely removed, even if there's other solutions. Because their issue isn't actually the writing or the implementation but what the character is.

Most of the time, the "criticism" is even more braindead. Literally just something along the lines of, "OH MAH GERD THIS FEMALE CHARACTER ISN'T ON PAR WITH MEGAN FOX WOKE WOKE DEI"

[76561199816312318]

引用自 Kestrel：

"Woke" is the term people use when minority characters or left-leaning political themes are poorly written or implemented. (...)

Well, I applaud you for presenting a more nuanced standpoint than most. However, this is what I call "ignorant rationalism". You are intelligent enough, but you don't know what's up. And you are not neutral, this is definitely leaning into wokism.

[Kestrel]

引用自 ghost：

引用自 Kestrel：

"Woke" is the term people use when minority characters or left-leaning political themes are poorly written or implemented. (...)

Well, I applaud you for presenting a more nuanced standpoint than most. However, this is what I call "ignorant rationalism". You are intelligent enough, but you don't know what's up. And you are not neutral, this is definitely leaning into wokism.

Yes, Ghost, I am biased and woke. I like diversity. I do not think there is a great argument against it in most cases (however, there are times when that is important to the story or staying true to a setting or adaptation of something else). But I don't think every creative work needs diversity, either. It's totally dependent on what you're trying to do. I'm not trying to say everything needs to match up to what I believe in; freedom of speech is cool. I just don't find a lot of criticism around "woke themes" to be well-founded, especially when they are extremely surface level.

Slightly off-topic but since people bring up Concord a lot... I've not looked much into it, but it seems like the main issues are the game simply not being innovative or interesting, and the character designs being boring and low quality. Not a lot is done to make them pop or give them distinctive personalities; they look like background characters in a Guardians of the Galaxy movie, or just downright goofy.

[FafnirChaos]

引用自 Kestrel：

"Woke" is the term people use when minority characters or left-leaning political themes are poorly written or implemented. Thus, it's not what they are, but how they are presented that is the problem. However, people focus on what they are because they're biased against them. "Woke" in the way it's being used by 99% of people doesn't actually exist.

It's fair to criticize political themes, but the "political themes" that people are having problems with are literally just things like female characters not being attractive enough or a black character showing up in a historical fantasy series as a protagonist. These things should not be political or matter whatsoever, but they do because of the culture war people keep falling for.

I definitely think some people are trying to instigate a bit with such media, but how are they instigating? Literally just adding these characters and storylines to their creative works, which has people frothing in rabid anger for some reason lol. Like literally just look at this ♥♥♥♥ from an outside perspective for a bit: it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid. If you don't like it, don't give it a platform and certainly don't give them money for it.

It's extremely easy to criticize this ♥♥♥♥ without sounding bigoted, too. You literally just need to point out other factors of why you think the character or storyline is poorly written or implemented. If it does have to do with what they are, then you can point out why you think that aspect of them is poorly written and/or doesn't make sense (take the setting itself into account, because many media where people have problems with this are more in the fantasy/sci-fi realm where there's creative liberty).

I've seen people do this before and it works because they actually understand what the character should be and they respect that while pointing out how they're poorly done, while more bigoted people think they should just be race-swapped, or gender-swapped, or just otherwise have that aspect of their character entirely removed, even if there's other solutions. Because their issue isn't actually the writing or the implementation but what the character is.

Most of the time, the "criticism" is even more braindead. Literally just something along the lines of, "OH MAH GERD THIS FEMALE CHARACTER ISN'T ON PAR WITH MEGAN FOX WOKE WOKE DEI"

The main reason why we don't like DEI, is because of DEI consultants and their bullying tactics.

So in reality, you can blame those consultants for the reason why if a girl doesn't look like megan fox - then it's assumed it was done by DEI consultants - they did more damage than they helped.

I just find it funny that all this stuff happened last year, and were getting discussions like this.

[76561199816312318]

引用自 Kestrel：

Yes, Ghost, I am biased and woke. I like diversity. I do not think there is a great argument against it in most cases (however, there are times when that is important to the story or staying true to a setting or adaptation of something else).

See, I think you need to think about these things more. It seems you are capable of it. Terms like "diversity" make people go all starry-eyed and make them say exactly what you are saying right now: "How can anyone be against this???"

But it isn't actually diversity at all. It is always the exact same things in each case; LGBT, blacks, etcetera. And, it is only about the most superficial, outward appearances. This diversity isn't allowed to MEAN anything, because that would be "stereotypes". Women acting like women, blacks acting like blacks, etcetera. It is completely hollow and makes everything exactly the same.

Same with "inclusivity", which in reality means censorship, and many other things like it.

[Plaid]

DEI seems to go against the civil rights act, but what do I know.

[Kestrel]

引用自 ghost：

引用自 Kestrel：

Yes, Ghost, I am biased and woke. I like diversity. I do not think there is a great argument against it in most cases (however, there are times when that is important to the story or staying true to a setting or adaptation of something else).

See, I think you need to think about these things more. It seems you are capable of it. Terms like "diversity" make people go all starry-eyed and make them say exactly what you are saying right now: "How can anyone be against this???"

But it isn't actually diversity at all. It is always the exact same things in each case; LGBT, blacks, etcetera. And, it is only about the most superficial, outward appearances. This diversity isn't allowed to MEAN anything, because that would be "stereotypes". Women acting like women, blacks acting like blacks, etcetera. It is completely hollow and makes everything exactly the same.

Same with "inclusivity", which in reality means censorship, and many other things like it.

Sometimes the "diversity" is poorly implemented. There's going to be these characters who are written poorly. But there will be gems too. Nobody likes having hollow "representation," especially when it causes an uproar of people saying crazy ♥♥♥♥ about their demographic.

I think your problem is just how all of this can be implemented. At times, it can be shallow and poorly done. But for some reason people don't point this out, they point out race or identity; it becomes an excuse to be bigoted rather than earnestly wanting something better.

I don't like shallow corporate attempts to be "~inclusive~" and garner more sales with lazily made characters, possibly even meant to cause ragebait in some cases (probably due to free advertising at this point). But there's something to be said about people who take the bait and criticize those characters or stories or what they are rather than how they've been portrayed. It's not "woke" that's the problem but companies and corporations trying to push out the most palatable ♥♥♥♥ possible and trying to satisfy both their progressive and their more conservative audience all at once, leaving everyone with a watered down version of what could be.

Basically political correctness, which in the traditional meaning of the word, is probably the opposite of "woke."

[Ȼħⱥꞥꞥēł8753452]

引用自 tallgeese：

引用自 Ȼħⱥꞥꞥēł8753452：

Horizon is doing great, deadlock too, valorant also still going very strong. Fortnite is fortnite, last of us part 2 sold well too, but i could go on.

Going woke =/= broke

It was never about woke, it was about them just being ♥♥♥♥♥♥ games no one wanted or asked for.

All the "woke" games they complain about make hundreds of millions of dollars in profit.

They cry and bray like donkeys but they are too addicted to video games so they buy the games anyway.

Money talks. And these games make a lot of money.

yeah loud minority it seems like

[FafnirChaos]

引用自 Ȼħⱥꞥꞥēł8753452：

引用自 tallgeese：

All the "woke" games they complain about make hundreds of millions of dollars in profit.

They cry and bray like donkeys but they are too addicted to video games so they buy the games anyway.

Money talks. And these games make a lot of money.

yeah loud minority it seems like

Why are you attacking minorities for? Thought DEI was suppose to protect them.. not being very inclusive.

[Lil boat]

Not being woke/DEI is a seal of quality for games and movies nowadays

[Hammer Of Evil]

i'm not sure if anything the op has listed was a problem before 'woke/dei' became a thing.

引用自 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡⁧⁧Vivi：

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3403446821

did you just cast the first fish

[76561199816312318]

引用自 Kestrel：

引用自 ghost：

See, I think you need to think about these things more. It seems you are capable of it. Terms like "diversity" make people go all starry-eyed and make them say exactly what you are saying right now: "How can anyone be against this???"

But it isn't actually diversity at all. It is always the exact same things in each case; LGBT, blacks, etcetera. And, it is only about the most superficial, outward appearances. This diversity isn't allowed to MEAN anything, because that would be "stereotypes". Women acting like women, blacks acting like blacks, etcetera. It is completely hollow and makes everything exactly the same.

Same with "inclusivity", which in reality means censorship, and many other things like it.

Sometimes the "diversity" is poorly implemented. There's going to be these characters who are written poorly. But there will be gems too. Nobody likes having hollow "representation," especially when it causes an uproar of people saying crazy ♥♥♥♥ about their demographic.

I think your problem is just how all of this can be implemented. At times, it can be shallow and poorly done. But for some reason people don't point this out, they point out race or identity; it becomes an excuse to be bigoted rather than earnestly wanting something better.

I don't like shallow corporate attempts to be "~inclusive~" and garner more sales with lazily made characters, possibly even meant to cause ragebait in some cases (probably due to free advertising at this point). But there's something to be said about people who take the bait and criticize those characters or stories or what they are rather than how they've been portrayed. It's not "woke" that's the problem but companies and corporations trying to push out the most palatable ♥♥♥♥ possible and trying to satisfy both their progressive and their more conservative audience all at once, leaving everyone with a watered down version of what could be.

Basically political correctness, which in the traditional meaning of the word, is probably the opposite of "woke."

No, it's not just about the implementation. You are ignoring one of my points: It is always about THE SAME THINGS. Yet you want to call it diversity. These things are even explicitly mentioned in DEI documents. It needs to have a woman, or a black person, or an LGBT person, in a significant role and so on.

According to this "philosophy", maximum diversity is reached when literally everything has all of those boxes checked. Don't you see how contradictory this is?

DEI is what is going on behind the scenes, it is ignorant to say that "it's just devs doing their thing". This is EXACTLY what is meant by woke. It's a "movement" and it has found its way into everything.

[tallgeese]

引用自 ghost：

引用自 Kestrel：

Sometimes the "diversity" is poorly implemented. There's going to be these characters who are written poorly. But there will be gems too. Nobody likes having hollow "representation," especially when it causes an uproar of people saying crazy ♥♥♥♥ about their demographic.

I think your problem is just how all of this can be implemented. At times, it can be shallow and poorly done. But for some reason people don't point this out, they point out race or identity; it becomes an excuse to be bigoted rather than earnestly wanting something better.

I don't like shallow corporate attempts to be "~inclusive~" and garner more sales with lazily made characters, possibly even meant to cause ragebait in some cases (probably due to free advertising at this point). But there's something to be said about people who take the bait and criticize those characters or stories or what they are rather than how they've been portrayed. It's not "woke" that's the problem but companies and corporations trying to push out the most palatable ♥♥♥♥ possible and trying to satisfy both their progressive and their more conservative audience all at once, leaving everyone with a watered down version of what could be.

Basically political correctness, which in the traditional meaning of the word, is probably the opposite of "woke."

No, it's not just about the implementation. You are ignoring one of my points: It is always about THE SAME THINGS. Yet you want to call it diversity. These things are even explicitly mentioned in DEI documents. It needs to have a woman, or a black person, or an LGBT person, in a significant role and so on.

According to this "philosophy", maximum diversity is reached when literally everything has all of those boxes checked. Don't you see how contradictory this is?

DEI is what is going on behind the scenes, it is ignorant to say that "it's just devs doing their thing". This is EXACTLY what is meant by woke. It's a "movement" and it has found its way into everything.

Behold how they destroy the meaning of words.

Woke means aware of the socio-economic struggles faced by African-Americans.