Semua Diskusi > Forum Steam > Off Topic > Rincian Topik
I don't think Nick Fuentes should of got arrested.
I do not agree with all of his views but imagine a random stranger coming on your property filming, you never know who it could be.
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Should have been arrested. The contraction "should've" would also be acceptable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc
Terakhir diedit oleh Electric Cupcake; 8 Des 2024 @ 3:50pm
Würm 8 Des 2024 @ 3:49pm 
Diposting pertama kali oleh Electric Cupcake:
Should have been arrested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc

He should be deported for being a mexican.
Diposting pertama kali oleh Marmarmar34:
...
The law doesn't care about the events leading up to it. Just the actual crime itself. ...
It actually does, which is why if she said that she was going to make a video of him to publicly shame him, then she may be liable for harassment, but if she instead said that she was making a video to account for her time and law abiding behavior while checking to see (out of curiosity) if the seemingly unstable man that she saw online actually existed, then she might not be liable for any crime related to this matter, since the latter explanation is a perfectly legal thing to do.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Tree Hugger:
It is illegal to film someones private property without their consent, ...
https://www.google.com/search?q=recording+consent+laws+in+the+USA
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+one+party+consent
"One-party consent or single-party consent means that you can record a call or meeting as long as you have consent from one of the parties in the meeting. You don't need explicit consent from the other party."

("Meeting" as defined by these laws includes any interaction between two people and one of the parties who is present may give consent to themselves to record under such circumstances - this means in one-party (recording) consent states, you can record every interaction that you are a part of without needing consent from the other parties - but you have to be one of the people interacting and not just a third-party observer.)

https://www.google.com/search?q=list+of+one+party+consent+states+in+the+USA
"One-party consent: A person can record a conversation if they are a party to the conversation, or if one party consents with full knowledge."
"This is the standard in 37 states and the District of Columbia."

Diposting pertama kali oleh Tree Hugger:
... this rule is enforced almost everywhere around the world, ...
I don't think so.

Based off of the results I'm finding - the following are some of the countries allow one-party consent for video recording in public areas (from outside of a dwelling, for example) where one does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy :
United States of America, Canada, United Kingdom, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Italy, Australia

The following link contains a list referring to legality of one-party consent photos (video should probably be the same) for 50 of the major countries in the world :
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Country_specific_consent_requirements
The vast majority are lit up green with no need for consent.
Only 14 out of 50 of them explicitly forbid it in some capacity, the rest apparently don't.


There may be caveats to this depending on the state, province, or other jurisdiction, so one should consult with their local legal records and / or an attorney before proceeding on this information - but the point is, there are actually plenty of countries in the world where the requirement for recording consent is not the standard.

And my take is that : nor should it be.

Any country that criminalizes keeping a video record of what you do in places where people do not have an expectation of privacy, is a country that does not believe in accountability. That video footage can account for your time if you are accused of something, and furthermore, if someone is committing a crime then that video footage would be able to account for that too. Criminalizing video recording in reasonable situations to record, is a law that only supports criminals because - psshhh... yeah right, like the guy who you're recording commit a crime is going to give you consent to record him. This is also why some countries where two-party consent is required, make an exemption for video footage that was either destroyed immediately after being recorded or which recorded a crime being committed by a third-party.
Terakhir diedit oleh Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏; 8 Des 2024 @ 4:07pm
Ulfrinn 8 Des 2024 @ 4:10pm 
Diposting pertama kali oleh Stingray_tm:
I know, that America has some really, really, really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid "castle doctrine" laws. But you shouldn't be allowed to attack someone just for knocking your door, unless you plausibly feel threatened for your life. If this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on Adolfs pants would have felt threatened in that case, he still would have been safe inside his house and could have called the cops.
Why don't you actually read what a castle doctrine is before you start taking about them. It doesn't allow you to attach someone for knocking on your door. You're also being disingenuous when you suggest this woman was some innocent person who just randomly knocked on his door. She was harassing him for days. Doxed him. Was scoping out his house. Do you think this is normal, okay, behavior?
I don't know anything about this situation specifically. Regardless---defending yourself, even if within your rights, does not mean you aren't subject to being investigated to prove whether or not you were in fact within your rights to defend yourself in whatever manner you did.
Marcy 8 Des 2024 @ 4:44pm 
Diposting pertama kali oleh Mason:
Knocking on someone's door isn't illegal. Attacking them and pepper spraying them for no reason... that is illegal. Hope he rots, and I hope his cell mate whispers in his ear one night "Your body, my choice." Guys a chump, doesn't even deserve the air he breathes, and you defending him, how stupid must you be to defend a literal neo nazi. That guy doesn't deserve any sympathy.
Diposting pertama kali oleh Sek-Raktaa:
Diposting pertama kali oleh Tree Hugger:
"You need consent to be on someones private property" Ok this person was on Nick Fuentes Private property, where was the consent?

So many nancy boiz on these forums

Pardon me? "nancy boiz"? What the ever lovin eff?
Würm 8 Des 2024 @ 5:18pm 
Diposting pertama kali oleh THE VERY REVEREND MISTER BONK:
Diposting pertama kali oleh Sek-Raktaa:

So many nancy boiz on these forums

Pardon me? "nancy boiz"? What the ever lovin eff?

Its like callin ppl ♥♥♥.
Diposting pertama kali oleh Würm:
Diposting pertama kali oleh THE VERY REVEREND MISTER BONK:

Pardon me? "nancy boiz"? What the ever lovin eff?

Its like callin ppl ♥♥♥.


Diposting pertama kali oleh Würm:
Diposting pertama kali oleh THE VERY REVEREND MISTER BONK:

Pardon me? "nancy boiz"? What the ever lovin eff?

Its like callin ppl ♥♥♥.
LOL ok, not sure what has to do wit the thread. Maybe it was "Tree Hugger" that set him off? Weird.
Würm 8 Des 2024 @ 5:22pm 
Diposting pertama kali oleh THE VERY REVEREND MISTER BONK:
Diposting pertama kali oleh Würm:

Its like callin ppl ♥♥♥.


Diposting pertama kali oleh Würm:

Its like callin ppl ♥♥♥.
LOL ok, not sure what has to do wit the thread. Maybe it was "Tree Hugger" that set him off? Weird.

Pretty sure nick is ♥♥♥, I would say it's pertinent. :D
Diposting pertama kali oleh Würm:
Diposting pertama kali oleh THE VERY REVEREND MISTER BONK:



LOL ok, not sure what has to do wit the thread. Maybe it was "Tree Hugger" that set him off? Weird.

Pretty sure nick is ♥♥♥, I would say it's pertinent. :D
Yeah I guess - but "nancy boiz" though :steamhappy::steamhappy::steamhappy:
It's "should HAVE" not "should of".
Ulfrinn 9 Des 2024 @ 1:44am 
Diposting pertama kali oleh Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏:
Diposting pertama kali oleh oh is it Christmas or something:
I don't know anything about this situation specifically. Regardless---defending yourself, even if within your rights, does not mean you aren't subject to being investigated to prove whether or not you were in fact within your rights to defend yourself in whatever manner you did.
From what I heard, there's video evidence that he tried to destroy but didn't do a good enough job destroying. I'm not sure if they recovered it from her smashed phone or if the device just sent a copy to the icloud or something, or maybe what I heard is wrong on this matter.
I'm guessing it was something like an automatic icloud file copy or something, though.

...in which case, there's no data recovery / device repair, or even investigation needed
- it's just : watch the video, see what happened, case closed.

I wish that authorities would actually do investigations but too often, they just take the word of the first person involved that makes an accusation and call it a day - maybe they might also delete the surveillance footage from their own computers if that's the situation.

Nobody does investigations for minor domestic accusations... they either just dismiss the accusation or blindly believe it and proceed full force. It sucks.

Police need one of two things to do an investigation. A warrant, or probable cause. They can't just go around digging through peoples personal spaces and data on a hunch or an accusation.
i would simply not open the door
In the case of Nick, the woman who claims to be assaulted just needs to turn over the video with her police statement and a reasonable sounding justification for why she was there.
As I stated, no investigation needed in this case for them to obtain said video, because no investigation is needed for police to just accept submissions of information that is willingly provided to them with police reports that they receive.

But, more generally speaking :
Diposting pertama kali oleh Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏:
...
Diposting pertama kali oleh Ulfrinn:
Police need one of two things to do an investigation. A warrant, or probable cause. They can't just go around digging through peoples personal spaces and data on a hunch or an accusation.
That isn't true but you seem to be confusing performing a search of private property (without consent) with police investigative work.

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+do+police+investigations+entail

From the following article :
https://www.apu.apus.edu/area-of-study/security-and-global-studies/resources/what-is-a-criminal-investigator/
... some common tasks include: Crime Scene Investigation: Gathering and preserving evidence at crime scenes, which can include photographing the scene, collecting fingerprints or DNA, and documenting observations. Witness Interviews: Speaking with people connected to the crime, such as victims, witnesses, and potential suspects, to gather information. Learning how to interview witnesses is often essential in the field. Data Analysis: Reviewing collected evidence and information to identify patterns, form hypotheses, and develop a timeline of events. Surveillance Operations: Monitoring suspects, often in collaboration with other law enforcement officers, to gather additional information or evidence. Reporting and Documentation: Writing detailed reports and maintaining records of the investigation's progress. Keeping detailed case reports and accurate incident reporting during investigative work is a key component of an investigator's day.
Furthermore :
Probable cause is a legal standard that means a reasonable belief that a crime has been committed or that someone is responsible for it. Often, the mere accusation of a crime, such as harassment or assault, is all the "probable cause" that police need to proceed with a case instead of dismissing it outright. In these cases, you have someone claiming an injury, which when it comes to assault, is often provable, but when it comes to harassment, it often is not provable, yet there's someone claiming to have experienced it, and if you can get them to sign a police report which has a clause which says (depending on jurisdiction) something close to "under penalty of perjury, I hereby certify that all information in this statement is true and accurate", so the "witness" or "victim" gets believed and that document gets used as evidence (more on that in a moment, below) but it's also worth noting that just because someone certifies that they are not committing perjury, it doesn't mean that they aren't.

(This is the same way that the BadUSB exploit occurs, because asking potential liars if they are liars, turns out to be a really bad way of identifying liars - and unlike BadUSB, with humans we have other reliable methods for checking for lies, but unfortunately, those methods are usually not checked.)

To perform a search, they have to convince a judge that they should get a warrant, giving them an exemption to the 4th amendment, but to just speak to people, or collect publicly available information, they need no such document.

No warrant is needed to speak to "victims", "witnesses", or anyone else willing to talk when a claim is made.

No warrant is needed to collect information from public sources, which are already available to every other member of the public, or which are freely handed over by any member of the public. (This is why some companies build their reputation on saying no to the police and requiring that they bring a warrant because many of them just turn over information freely with no warrant, to the detriment of many people who are not even perpetrators.)

No warrant is needed to watch the movements and behaviors of someone (maybe "a suspect") in public and document what is observed because there is no expectation of privacy in public.

No warrant is needed to analyze what data has already been collected.

...and when it comes to pressing charges, they don't even need that much - all they need are the "witness" / "victim" statements and some written police reports, signed by "witnesses" or "victims" - "under penalty of perjury" (but as an attorney explained it to me, they want people reporting, so unless someone admits on any record that they lied about a domestic crime (ie. harassment / assault), people will never be held accountable for filing a false police report for such matters - therefore, for those types of accusations, we can just dismiss the "under penalty of perjury" part, because it will never be enforced without an outright confession from a liar).

To press charges, they don't even need a solid case - they just need to convince the district attorney to accept the charges - which they do because, as that same attorney that I spoke with put it, "victims statements are considered evidence for domestic accusations" and "often cases will be tried even if all they have is the accusation out of an abundance of precaution for escalation because no judge and no district attorney (who is subject to being voted out) wants to come under public scrutiny, media or otherwise, for failing to bring a case due to the possibility that said case results in the death of a girl, which causes said public scrutiny to occur". ...and finally, that same attorney also said, "I have seen many cases brought to trial, including for something as serious as ♥♥♥♥, where the only evidence that they had were the statement and tears of some girl on the stand, which still resulted in convictions from a jury."
Now, if that's how ♥♥♥♥ cases go, you can imagine how harassment, assault, and other minor domestic claims go similarly...

Furthermore, there is a presumption that public officers properly perform their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ duties, which creates the trustworthiness that supposedly justifies accepting a hearsay statement from the officer. (Which you can find legal sources which back this simply by searching online, but also by speaking with an attorney to confirm it.) ...but that's in court - before court, that presumption that officers supposedly properly perform their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ duties, causes cases which lack sufficient evidence to be accepted on the presumption that the evidence actually is sufficient (in addition to the reasons it gets accepted from the above paragraph) - meanwhile, too many officers take the stance of "let the courts figure it out" when filing charges, and also as the reason for filing charges, assuming that the courts will sort out the truth, at the same time that the courts are assuming that the police actually have evidence.

This is why police should be performing investigations, though, because it causes a lot of harm to the accused to be charged especially if charges are not dropped quickly (even if the case doesn't make it to trial), and if there's EXCULPATORY evidence that the crime alleged DID NOT occur, then the police should be looking into that.
Very often, they do not.




In the case of Nick, if there's video of the incident, and the accusing party has access to that video, then it's a pretty open and shut case.

However, in other cases, the police may ignore video or potentially even destroy it if it's on systems that they control - which checking video of an incident is extremely basic investigative work that they could be doing and often can get legitimate access to without a warrant - and when they either disregard or destroy that video, it is extremely bad for the truth and justice of a case, regardless of whether that video footage was evidence of a crime, or exculpatory evidence.

Video footage is often evidence of objective truth.
When people, especially police, decide to listen to personal truths and disregard evidence of objective truths - justice is not being served.
Terakhir diedit oleh Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏; 9 Des 2024 @ 5:22am
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Semua Diskusi > Forum Steam > Off Topic > Rincian Topik
Tanggal Diposting: 8 Des 2024 @ 10:24am
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