Does "pay-to-win" actually exist?

[Ailes]

Nearly every free-to-play game I've been playing allows you to buy
(1) cosmetic items that are only unlockable with real-life money
(2) equipment that is unlockable with real-life money or with an in-game currency that you earn by playing

Common opinion seems to be that (2) is not "pay-to-win" because one can unlock anything without paying provided you spend enough time playing the game. But this is pretty much the only free-to-play model I've ever seen. Everyone can get anything, but not at the same time/speed. Isn't that "pay-to-win", if anything? What are genuine P2W games? Only this concept seems to that makes sense: Cosmetics alone won't guarantee you any income (Path of Exile apparently works with this, but this may be a unique exception), and giving away unique and advantage-giving items only when people pay would enrage the corresponding community since many people go ape♥♥♥♥ the second they believe to see genuine "pay-to-win" aspects.

So, which games are truly "pay-to-win"? Korean MMORPGs? Browser games? I haven't played those in a long time. Have they changed too, fearing to enrage their communites as well? Has "pay-to-win" become an obsolete term?

[Grimminski]

Any "Free2Play" shooter is Pay2Win.

[Shasow]

There's plenty of pay-to-win still floating out around there, but it's becoming less and less common. It's not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be (see above post).

[Fork_Q2]

Path of Exile, League of Legends and (supposedly) Loadout lets you buy cosmetics and only cosmetics for your games. Apparently Path of Exile is doing really well:

http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/28/5451410/how-is-ethical-free-to-play-path-of-exile-faring

I agree with you on your second point; using real world money to unlock XP or items quicker is really just pay-to-win, since by paying extra you get an advantage over someone who has not.

As far as I'm concerned, any game that gives you even a miniscule advantage or wider play options for real cash is Pay-To-Win, even TF2.

[Grimminski]

Shasow eredeti hozzászólása:

There's plenty of pay-to-win still floating out around there, but it's becoming less and less common. It's not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be (see above post).

It's still pretty bad. In shooters at least.

MMO's like RIFT or LoTRO aren't that bad. They're more, Pay2NotGrind than anything.

[grounded in reality]

St. Paddy eredeti hozzászólása:

Any "Free2Play" shooter is Pay2Win.

tf2

[Grimminski]

box eredeti hozzászólása:

St. Paddy eredeti hozzászólása:

Any "Free2Play" shooter is Pay2Win.

tf2

Used to be P2W when hats had stats.

[Mr. Stockington]

Unfortunatly, yes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_AgjWkNGew

[Doomerang]

It's definitely getting alot rarer these days is it not?

[Grimminski]

zeckt eredeti hozzászólása:

It's definitely getting alot rarer these days is it not?

Because the Alot[hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com] eats P2W for second breakfast.

[rogue]

P2W has its good side, it helps fund game developpment

[Fork_Q2]

rogue eredeti hozzászólása:

P2W has its good side, it helps fund game developpment

It pays to fund for more bad games and turns good francises into poor P2W titles (Neverwinter, Wizardry).

[Gyve]

battlefield 3,
you can pay around £50 to unlock every weapon, dog-tag and item in the game, if that's not pay-to-win then i dont know what is...

[Fork_Q2]

fortytwo42 eredeti hozzászólása:

battlefield 3,
you can pay around £50 to unlock every weapon, dog-tag and item in the game, if that's not pay-to-win then i dont know what is...

You won't hear me argue against that.

[Soundpulse]

Well, I hear World of Warcraft is now Pay2Win

[Fork_Q2]

Soundpulse eredeti hozzászólása:

Well, I hear World of Warcraft is now Pay2Win

I hear you can now buy your way to level 90. Guess that shows how enjoyable the game really is if there is demand to bypass 99% of it...