The real reason there are so few female protagonists

[Tenderizer]

The common assumption is that there is a lack of female protagonists because developers and publishers think that not many girls play games. I have always had an issue with that since there has been a statistic showing that girls do play games almost as frequently as men (Candy Crush counts as playing games in the study). There have been plenty of demands from the community about the lack of female protagonists in games also. This made me think that the issue isn't with developers and publishers getting false information.

I believe the real reason is that there are few female game developers/designers. It is much easier for men to write male characters and so we end up with so many. So the solution is to get more women involved in game development/design. There have already been plenty of efforts to do so by other people. Here are a few other ideas.

- The military is traditionally comprised mostly of men (There are a lot of military games)
- Men are usually physically stronger so the protagonists high health makes slightly more sense
- Men have often been the protagonist right from the start (I have no idea why)

[C4Warr10r]

引用自 volcanic_lightning：

Especially you, C4Warr10r. Stop playing linear, brown, military corridor shooters with regen health and buy yourself Shantae or Mighty Switch Force or something. It's not healthy to fantasize about shooting Middle Easterners for long periods of time when life has so much more to offer.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on, guy. What is that supposed to mean? I've been military for almost my whole adult life, and I'm constantly telling people here there is more to life with utmost faith inhumanity. I think you seriously mistake my intentions. There are bad parts, I know, I've seen them, I try to understand them where I can, and you're telling me what is unhealthy?

What's going to be really unhealthy for you is if any of those maniacs make it to your home town and start directing your life. I've spent most of my adult life to make sure that doesn't happen, at any cost, including health and criticism from people like you. Trust me, there's a reason Guantanamo Bay is not yet closed, and no matter how benign you think it is to not be worried about obvious evil, you'd change your mind if you'd seen what they do.

Why are you attacking me, anyway? I just gave you the most obvious reason for why feminists would complain about them. You're making it into.... I'm not even sure what. More proof for my case about how people get bent out of shape about things for the most obvious reasons? It's a class-A rant, don't get me wrong, it's just not much of an argument. Work on it, or post it in the rant forums, which are private.

Also, not interested if you're just trying to troll, since that's what it looks like. As much fun as it sounds like, I'm really not into troll spotting when there are so many better things about life.

[MuscularMelvin]

Look, there you go again. You're going all military in a discussion that doesn't warrant it. What the **** does the military and terrorism have to do with females in video games? We're not talking about it at all! You're just like Walter from The Big Lebowski!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4ezPvzKe5M

You don't get it. What does women lifting a MK19 have to with fictional video games where anything can happen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1gUc-WMhfI
For that matter, what the **** is an MK19? How am I (or any other gaming nerd on Steam) supposed to know what that is without reading various weapons manuals or asking military types like you who would to tell me to go home and be a family man?
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Mk_19_grenade_launcher
Oh hurr, I remember it from COD4. Big deal. Women have lots of roles in the military. I don't think a woman cares about a ****ing artillery piece when she's piloting a drone to blow up enemy positions to assist your men.

If we're going by video games alone, I'm pretty sure Chun-Li could disarm you and your entire squad then hand you your ***es on a silver platter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knhAROwFZFk
SHE'S A CARTOON ON A PIECE OF PAPER. SHE'S NOT REAL.

[Arvo the Blue Jay]

引用自 Fwuffy Foxeh：

Oh gosh. This thread will certainly end well... :cwat:

[Dendrobates Tinctorius]

引用自 C4Warr10r：

The real reason there aren't as many female protagonists or gamers is the most obvious one that has been staring you in the face the entire time: they're women. They are mentally and physically different from men.

You heard it here first, everyone! The reason we can't have women throwing fireballs at skeletons is because they ovulate.

引用自 C4Warr10r：

Here's a thought - how about just let people be free and who cares who likes what?

I dunno, why not? You just wrote 800 words about why women shouldn't be game protagonists, and the answer is apparently because not enough of them are weightlifters. Why not let people ask for characters they like?

引用自 volcanic_lightning：

The REAL real reason there are so few female protagonists is that no matter how hard designers will try, internet feminists will still find a way to complain about them.

So the REAL reason is that game designers are massive babies who throw a tantrum every time someone on the internet has an opinion? This is the worst of all possible reasons. Someone should hire some better ones before they all realize people have been having opinions about games on the internet for as long as it's been around. Negative opinions, even!

[Nijn]

Same reason there's a lack of black protagonists. Some people will always find some way to complain about them and turn it into a debate of sexism or racism.

[♠ZerØ♠]

The real reason is the Internet is a terrible place that disallows anyone's happiness, regardless of how few people are even remotely affected by it.

I honestly don't care if we get more or less male or female protagonists, just that we get more inclusive and accepting of who plays. The bottom line is, profit driven market, largely staffed by men, pushing at a demographic of men. A lot of those in that demographic are the same kind that harass female players, have homophobic tendencies when it comes to smack talk, and act like they are defending the Beaches of Normandy from the Female Invasion when talk of including female options in game or playing as those characters or they find out a lead developer is a woman.

Sorry boys, but I like to play games with members of the opposite sex. Or anyone of any sexual/gender association. I'm here to have fun with people in a shared hobby. What exactly are you here for?

[MuscularMelvin]

引用自 Dendrobates Tinctorius：

引用自 C4Warr10r：

The real reason there aren't as many female protagonists or gamers is the most obvious one that has been staring you in the face the entire time: they're women. They are mentally and physically different from men.

You heard it here first, everyone! The reason we can't have women throwing fireballs at skeletons is because they ovulate.

What I said put into much fewer words and with less Walter Sobchak comparisons.

引用自 Dendrobates Tinctorius：

引用自 C4Warr10r：

Here's a thought - how about just let people be free and who cares who likes what?

I dunno, why not? You just wrote 800 words about why women shouldn't be game protagonists, and the answer is apparently because not enough of them are weightlifters. Why not let people ask for characters they like?

Muscle fetishes are real and horrifying. This is C4Warr10r's ideal female character @ 0:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYEcqKyPvtY
4spooky10me

引用自 Dendrobates Tinctorius：

引用自 volcanic_lightning：

The REAL real reason there are so few female protagonists is that no matter how hard designers will try, internet feminists will still find a way to complain about them.

So the REAL reason is that game designers are massive babies who throw a tantrum every time someone on the internet has an opinion?

Dude, I've seen feminists online who would s***shame Bianca from Pokemon.[www.creativeuncut.com]

引用自 Skylx：

Men have more disposable income to invest in fantasy and diversions. Most women need their cash to keep them afloat in the real world. What boys and girls do with the money they're given or earn depends on whatever the latest trends are. You market to where the money is.

I don't know, that Kim Kardashian mobile game has robbed the wallets of thousands of women out there. How is that different than CSGO's cases?

引用自 Fa Kju Tooh：

Same reason there's a lack of black protagonists. Some people will always find some way to complain about them and turn it into a debate of sexism or racism.

There was a Doom forum that pointed out a 2003 TPS that starred a black, female police officer with a shotgun. Wish I could remember the name, because THAT was a positive example of representation in video games!

[Nijn]

引用自 volcanic_lightning：

引用自 Fa Kju Tooh：

Same reason there's a lack of black protagonists. Some people will always find some way to complain about them and turn it into a debate of sexism or racism.

There was a Doom forum that pointed out a 2003 TPS that starred a black, female police officer with a shotgun. Wish I could remember the name, because THAT was a positive example of representation in video games!

Yeah, but I assume if she was more popular they would find a way to make it seem racist and most likely too sexist...

[MuscularMelvin]

引用自 Fa Kju Tooh：

引用自 volcanic_lightning：

There was a Doom forum that pointed out a 2003 TPS that starred a black, female police officer with a shotgun. Wish I could remember the name, because THAT was a positive example of representation in video games!

Yeah, but I assume if she was more popular they would find a way to make it seem racist and most likely too sexist...

The game was a flop, that's why whoever brought it up brought it up as a way of saying "Hey, representation exists, you people just don't care about it."

Really wish I could remember, though. She was wearing some kind of Judge Dredd armor and had a shotgun pointed at the viewer right on the boxart.

[♠ZerØ♠]

引用自 volcanic_lightning：

There was a Doom forum that pointed out a 2003 TPS that starred a black, female police officer with a shotgun. Wish I could remember the name, because THAT was a positive example of representation in video games!

Until you said 2003, I though you were talking about Urban Chao's with D’arci Stern

[Nijn]

引用自 volcanic_lightning：

引用自 Fa Kju Tooh：

Yeah, but I assume if she was more popular they would find a way to make it seem racist and most likely too sexist...

The game was a flop, that's why whoever brought it up brought it up as a way of saying "Hey, representation exists, you people just don't care about it."

Really wish I could remember, though. She was wearing some kind of Judge Dredd armor and had a shotgun pointed at the viewer right on the boxart.

Sometimes even clothing is enough for people to start judging a character.
Like Lara Croft from the Tomb Raider game from... 2013 I think it was? The thing is, it's true that Lara always wore pretty... skimpy outfits for an explorer. Maybe it was a bit potraying her as a sex object. But that was back then, in the game from 2013 they gave her decent clothing that covered everything.
Yet, they found a way to still say she was sexist. Why? Because she was wearing a tank top (And she wasn't wearing shorts or anything, may I add). Apparently that was still showing too much skin.
Just to give an example.

[MuscularMelvin]

引用自 Darkangel98s：

引用自 volcanic_lightning：

There was a Doom forum that pointed out a 2003 TPS that starred a black, female police officer with a shotgun. Wish I could remember the name, because THAT was a positive example of representation in video games!

Until you said 2003, I though you were talking about Urban Chao's with D’arci Stern

Yeah, I got the dates mixed up, it was Urban Chaos.

引用自 Fa Kju Tooh：

引用自 volcanic_lightning：

The game was a flop, that's why whoever brought it up brought it up as a way of saying "Hey, representation exists, you people just don't care about it."

Really wish I could remember, though. She was wearing some kind of Judge Dredd armor and had a shotgun pointed at the viewer right on the boxart.

Sometimes even clothing is enough for people to start judging a character.
Like Lara Croft from the Tomb Raider game from... 2013 I think it was? The thing is, it's true that Lara always wore pretty... skimpy outfits for an explorer. Maybe it was a bit potraying her as a sex object. But that was back then, in the game from 2013 they gave her decent clothing that covered everything.
Yet, they found a way to still say she was sexist. Why? Because she was wearing a tank top (And she wasn't wearing shorts or anything, may I add). Apparently that was still showing too much skin.
Just to give an example.

"Good job, Eidos, for finally making Lara wear a snow jacket!"
*literally wore a snow jacket in 80% of the series*

[♠ZerØ♠]

Yea. But she added long pants in 2013,

True, the were wet 100% of the game from her constantly being in rain or water, but hey.

Pants.

[Dendrobates Tinctorius]

引用自 volcanic_lightning：

Dude, I've seen feminists online who would s***shame Bianca from Pokemon.[www.creativeuncut.com]

I've seen people online who said HL2 is the best game ever and I've seen people who said it was the worst game ever. I've seen people complain about male characters being mindless Brick McLargeHuges, or evil chauvinists, or scheming predators, or whatever. If the mere existence of opinions on the internet is the driving force behind character design choices, we're all in deep, deep trouble, because there's always going to be someone complaining about something. We wouldn't have any games at all.

Curiously enough, though, it seems like the existence of opinions only gets brought up to justify certain types of design biases. Bloke with a gun belches boring one-liners? Well, who cares, it's a stupid stereotype, everyone agrees. Babe with a gun belching etc.? Well hold on now, this has gotten political. Opinions are now SERIOUS.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

引用自 Linx77：

- The military is traditionally comprised mostly of men (There are a lot of military games)

Good point. Luckily, I rarely play military shooters or open-world survival type things.

引用自 Linx77：

- Men are usually physically stronger so the protagonists high health makes slightly more sense

Actually, physical strength doesn't necessarily mean more durability or survivability. Though I can see how that thinking comes about.

引用自 Linx77：

- Men have often been the protagonist right from the start (I have no idea why)

Reason for this is because it's just been done before predominantly in the past up to today. It's become expected -- expected of designers and expected by customers. It's like a self-fulfilling loop. Marketing has also been in that mix since the 80s and 90s, marketing games toward boys with a "hardcore" angle -- see the very, very silly U.S. commercial for Final Fantasy VI, for example.

Also, people think too hard about gender. Stop thinking about gender as such a huge dividing line between characters and people. Start thinking of people as individuals. Especially since we're talking about the virtual worlds of videogames, gender is just a trait, along with things like eye color, hair color, skin color, personality, weapon type preference, clothing style, character stats, etc..



Incidentally, one of the cool things about this recent trend of so-called "anime" games is that there are a lot more female characters. Sometimes it's because of fanservice, but even if you don't count the fanservice instances, there are a lot that feature female protagonists for non-fanservice reasons:
* Recettear
* Chantelise
* Fortune Summoners
* This Starry Midnight We Make
* Ys Origin (co-protagonist)
* The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky (co-protagonist)
* 100% Orange Juice
* Fairy Bloom Freesia
* Rime Berta
* various other games