Should abandonware games be free ?.

[Grimaldus]

I vote yes.

Currently there is a ton of games from the age of 640*480 or otherwise that has been left to rot on the stores and very very few games are updated to fit todays 1080p which is a very common resolution.

And no, i'm actually not asking games to be free as a goal, would i really want is
all these days updated to be enjoyable with todays screens.
But i do however have the opinion that once a game stops reveiving updates
and becomes an "abandonware" it shouldn't be in the store with a price,
anything abandoned should imo be free.

I'm not asking for a complete graphical overhault. But if you as devs won't put
in time to at the very least update your games to fit todays resolutions,
your games, imo, qualifies as abandonware and should be free.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Escrito originalmente por TwisterCat:

Escrito originalmente por Crazed Rabbit:

literally a completely different scenario from the one OP wrote but sure go off king

Considering that they said "if it isn't sold", I assume they were talking about the sub-topic of preservation.

Preservation is important, but nothing about OP's "updating games to be enjoyable on today's screens", "devs won't put in the time" post makes me think they're talking about setting up a historical archive. This is just about wanting to play old games for free.

[TwisterCat]

Escrito originalmente por Gus the Crocodile:

Escrito originalmente por TwisterCat:

Considering that they said "if it isn't sold", I assume they were talking about the sub-topic of preservation.

Preservation is important, but nothing about OP's "updating games to be enjoyable on today's screens", "devs won't put in the time" post makes me think they're talking about setting up a historical archive. This is just about wanting to play old games for free.

I was more so referring to lightwo, not the OP. If the game's still being sold of a storefront, I don't think there's much for the argument of "preservation", more as you said, just getting older games for free.

[Nx Machina]

Escrito originalmente por TwisterCat:

Exactly this. I'm painted as a villain for the mere suggestion of software preservation.

It is not about "preservation" but "abandonware" as those "abandonware" sites can be made to remove copyrighted content with a cease and desist order plus the OP wants free games not preservation.

Escrito originalmente por TwisterCat:

Considering that they said "if it isn't sold", I assume they were talking about the sub-topic of preservation.

No longer been sold does not remove the copyright nor relates to preservation.

[Auraplayer (Stir Crazy)]

Ok, so on one hand, it's a bad and it can be compared to such common IP crimes like theft and piracy, and on the other hand, with the help of certain communities and possibly the devs that made the game that is forgotten by the sands of time, a forgotten gem can be put back into the limelight and be given the rightful tender care and passion for it to be demanded more by its niche fans and newcomers that loved the game, ala "Remaster" or "Remake" and thus, is a good.

Not much a matter of legality, but a matter of digital ethics.

[EASY PETE]

Oh go on then

[TwisterCat]

Escrito originalmente por Nx Machina:

Escrito originalmente por TwisterCat:

Exactly this. I'm painted as a villain for the mere suggestion of software preservation.

It is not about "preservation" but "abandonware" as those "abandonware" sites can be made to remove copyrighted content with a cease and desist order. The OP wants free games not preservation.

Escrito originalmente por TwisterCat:

Considering that they said "if it isn't sold", I assume they were talking about the sub-topic of preservation.

No longer been sold does not remove the copyright nor relates to preservation.

If the game hasn't been available for purchase on any storefront for 5+ years, I believe archiving it would be preserving the software. At that point, I think everyone would agree the software could very likely fade into oblivion and we get a case of "I've searched every forum and site, I can't find this game", nobody wants that. I don't care about the copyright, I'll happily infringe it, if it means I can do personal preservation, but that's a last stand scenario, I don't want that.

Even if "preservation" of software was found to be illegal in the upcoming trial, it's not stopping anybody, but it's only making things harder, and fuelling a community that strangles out the free market and indie developers. If that is what you want, at the cost of "copyright enforcement", that's on you.

[Nx Machina]

Escrito originalmente por Auraplayer (Likes to write):

Not much a matter of legality, but a matter of digital ethics. :cozycrashfish:

Would those "digital ethics" include ignoring:

1) abandonware is not legal
2) copyright infringement of protected products.
3) developer, publisher rights as owners of the games.
4) software supplied "as is" at the time of release.

etc and the OP not wanting to buy games but wanting them for free as they classify ALL games not just "resolutions" when they used the wording.

Escrito originalmente por Grimaldus:

But i do however have the opinion that once a game stops reveiving updates
and becomes an "abandonware" it shouldn't be in the store with a price, anything abandoned should imo be free.

The Witcher 3 should be free because it not longer receives updates?

What about Mass Effect 1,2, 3, the original versions?

Dragon Age 1, 2, 3?

[Nx Machina]

Escrito originalmente por TwisterCat:

If the game hasn't been available for purchase on any storefront for 5+ years, I believe archiving it would be preserving the software. At that point, I think everyone would agree the software could very likely fade into oblivion and we get a case of "I've searched every forum and site, I can't find this game", nobody wants that. I don't care about the copyright, I'll happily infringe it, if it means I can do personal preservation, but that's a last stand scenario, I don't want that.

Even if "preservation" of software was found to be illegal in the upcoming trial, it's not stopping anybody, but it's only making things harder, and fuelling a community that strangles out the free market and indie developers. If that is what you want, at the cost of "copyright enforcement", that's on you.

And you need to own the copyright to determine the status of "preservation" not simply because you believe "not been sold" equates to preservation.

As stated NOT been sold does NOT remove the copyright nor give you rights over a game after all you own a licence to download, install and play a game only and not to determine it's fate and that licence you own grants not rights of ownership in any form.

https://store.steampowered.com/eula/292030_eula_0

2. WHAT YOU GET WITH THE GAME

We (meaning CD PROJEKT RED) give you the personal right (called a 'licence' legally) to download, install and play The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt on your personal computer as long as you follow these Rules. This licence is for your personal use only (so you can't give a sublicense to someone else) and doesn't give you ownership rights.

At all times we continue to own all of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, all in-game content, any updates or additional content for them, manuals or other materials about them and the intellectual property rights in them, including all copyright, trademarks, patents and legal things like that (all of this together we call the ‘Game’).

[TwisterCat]

Escrito originalmente por Nx Machina:

Escrito originalmente por TwisterCat:

If the game hasn't been available for purchase on any storefront for 5+ years, I believe archiving it would be preserving the software. At that point, I think everyone would agree the software could very likely fade into oblivion and we get a case of "I've searched every forum and site, I can't find this game", nobody wants that. I don't care about the copyright, I'll happily infringe it, if it means I can do personal preservation, but that's a last stand scenario, I don't want that.

Even if "preservation" of software was found to be illegal in the upcoming trial, it's not stopping anybody, but it's only making things harder, and fuelling a community that strangles out the free market and indie developers. If that is what you want, at the cost of "copyright enforcement", that's on you.

And you need to own the copyright to determine the status of "preservation" not simply because you believe "not been sold" equates to preservation.

As stated NOT been sold does NOT remove the copyright nor give you rights over a game after all you own a licence to download, install and play a game only and not to determine it's fate and that licence you own grants not rights of ownership in any form.

https://store.steampowered.com/eula/292030_eula_0

2. WHAT YOU GET WITH THE GAME

We (meaning CD PROJEKT RED) give you the personal right (called a 'licence' legally) to download, install and play The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt on your personal computer as long as you follow these Rules. This licence is for your personal use only (so you can't give a sublicense to someone else) and doesn't give you ownership rights.

At all times we continue to own all of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, all in-game content, any updates or additional content for them, manuals or other materials about them and the intellectual property rights in them, including all copyright, trademarks, patents and legal things like that (all of this together we call the ‘Game’).

We're not talking about games you can purchase off a storefront, I made that clear in my last post, and the Steam EULA doesn't speak on behalf of the entire internet. Currently we're still awaiting the verdict on software preservation across the internet, but it's not changing anything. The powers that be across a few unnamed sites don't care about the law, and they're not subject to it, the government and software publishers have tried to arrest them, and failed. They are against the free market, they strangle indie games out of development funds, and they have absolutely no morals.

You're only looking at a fraction of this equation, the legal fraction of it. The bigger picture is that it's going to sting if Archive loses the legal dispute, because with something that large, and that many users disappearing from popularity, something worse is going to take it's place. Something illegal, something harming the gaming industry, something that will have those pieces of software, and attract the people that are now completely out of a legitimate option.

The guidelines need to be set at something other than "copyright holder always gets the last say", or there'll be hell to pay in this industry, because people will be far less inclined to spend any money on the industry if they're forced to go to an illegal and cost-free part of it just to get a retro game. Like it, or love it, the copyright laws will, eventually, be it now or later, burn this entire industry to the ground. They're making videos of their games illegal (Nintendo), they're making distribution of non-marketed software illegal, they're fuelling and entire illegal market doing it.

[Captain n00by]

Abandonware isn't "free" in a legal sense, free is "freeware", that is software which was legit made free.

Abandonware can be seen as "free" in the sense that the rights holders do nothing with the software to re-release or remaster it on modern platforms.

But it legally most certainly isn't "free".

[Auraplayer (Stir Crazy)]

I'm starting to see a pattern here. Those who are against the establishment of "abandonware" (I'll call them junk games from now on) tend to look at the legalities of such conundrums and are staunch supporters of developers and game studios in their own way, while those in favor tend to look at what they perceive as "the greater good" of maintaining the integrity and artistry of games that are either forgotten or neglected by whoever entity owns that game, also staunch supporters of developers and game studios in their own way.

While I currently stand on the moderate side of this argument, I can feel that the latter has more merit and leeway in finding a solution to this issue than the former.

[Captain n00by]

Escrito originalmente por Jt:

I think most of the abandonware is not even worth to be installed i always choose quality over quantity

Need For Speed Porsche, Black & White, Vietcong and numerous other great abandoned games would like to have a word with you.

[Captain n00by]

Escrito originalmente por Holding These Alligators Down:

It would be nice because there's are a ton of old games on Steam which are broken on Windows 10.
They don't support modern controllers or high resolutions and in some cases they don't even launch.
Publishers still sell them though.

For example Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver. It's a great game but the version on Steam is busted.

Because updating them to run on modern systems and resolutions is some work and if they actually get to that they can just sell it as a "remaster".

[Radene]

An interesting exercise would be if someone took an old, no longer supported game, spruced it up to modern standards, while not being legally contested by the actual IP holder.

[Captain n00by]

Escrito originalmente por Radene:

An interesting exercise would be if someone took an old, no longer supported game, spruced it up to modern standards, while not being legally contested by the actual IP holder.

Isn't that what Night Dive are doing?

Although some games are in "rights hell", e.g. No One Lives Forever - that game is disputed between more parties.