AI artists
Are half of them trolling?

I feel a wave of cringe when I hear one say I "drew/composed/wrote/came up with/created" this with AI!

LIKE there's no way they're serious right?

Please tell me Im not the only sane one who thinks they're just failurebound cheating themselves
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Beiträge 7690 von 134
Ursprünglich geschrieben von 🍋 Lemonfed 🍋:
A.I to create art is a waste of resources and the amount of resources we pour on them could be used for something else , you want to create art , become an artist or hire a real artist.

we don"t need A.I slop.
AI will not be good for us legally either.
Rio 9. Okt. 2024 um 19:45 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Fuki 11in2000:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von 🍋 Lemonfed 🍋:
A.I to create art is a waste of resources and the amount of resources we pour on them could be used for something else , you want to create art , become an artist or hire a real artist.

we don"t need A.I slop.
AI will not be good for us legally either.

Everything is public use that ai makes. Thats great.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Velo:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Fuki 11in2000:
AI will not be good for us legally either.

Everything is public use that ai makes. Thats great.
Nah i'm talking about when AI eventually becomes indistinguishable from the real thing and it'll start being used to defame people and all that crazy ♥♥♥♥, we're not that far away from it. Have you seen what they are freaking out about in the AI space recently?
https://i.imgur.com/WMsHHxr.jpeg
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Fuki 11in2000; 9. Okt. 2024 um 19:48
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Saturn830:
...
Rights under the law are irrelevant.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Fuki 11in2000:
Whats?
Here's an example of what he means.

If someone breaks into your home and shoots you in the head in the USA, then they have committed murder and violated your right to life as outlined in the Bill of Rights, but here's the thing... you're still dead.

Reality does not always align with what the law recognizes.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Saturn830:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kamiyama:
AI is just a tool. The same as a paintbrush, or photoshop.

Nope. Complete false equivalency.

When an artist makes a piece of visual art, whether they use their fingers cave painting or a digital stylus, they control every stroke and detail. Every line, every texture, every shade, every pixel or square millimeter of canvas is a conscious creation. When someone prompts a large language model, they supply the idea but all those details are generated by the algorithm. If you prompt a tree, it creates a tree, but every curve of every leaf and knot on the trunk is the work of something else. You can always increase the specificity of the prompt, but unless you're prompting every pixel - which would be as redundant as it is impossible - the machine is doing the actual work.

The easiest way to disprove that prompters are artists is to point out that the work involved in prompting - supplying an idea - is the same as commissioning a human artist to create a work. Under the argument that prompters are artists, Pope Julius II would be the artist of the Sistine Chapel and Francesco di Bartolomeo del Giocondo would be the artist of the Mona Lisa. But obviously Michelangelo and Leonardo da Vinci are the artists there. Large language models are not a tool for art but a replacement. Except they still require the work of actual artists to be fed into them in order to function.
While I think that there is room to argue against these points that you have made, they ARE really well-crafted points.

The language descriptivist in me at least says that "A.I. artist" has a semi-clear meaning, and while that's probably just prompt-engineering most of the time, the phrase does mean something and so even if the phrase is semantically incorrect in its usage - that's technically what they are just because that's how the phrase is used and we know what it probably actually entails.

I think the argument gets weaker when you generate a series of images and then string them together, even in the most basic example of creating a storyboard with them, because at that point the arrangement of the panels as they relate to a creation of a story is something that you're actually creating that the tool did not make on its own. But even then, your argument still holds up for the individual image generations, especially if they're entirely unedited.

There are arguments to be made against the accuracy of controlling every line, stroke, or detail of traditionally created works, but those only counter that particular statement - they don't counter your overall argument that prompt engineering is equivalent to crafting a request that you have commissioned.

The best parallel between A.I. generation and other image tools are photographs. Depending on how much extra work went into it depends on how much of it was really "created by the artist". When there is not a large amount of staging that goes into making a photo, it is almost offensive to claim that someone created that photo when a machine did all the work and all they did was point their phone at a sunset and press a button or something. *lol* It might be a very good image but there is a strong argument to be made that "they did not create that!"
technically big corporations can kind of find ways to 'own' what they create with A.I by ownning the sampled artworks and training data that was used to create their contents.

create the concept of a character by hand , you own the character itself even if your movie was enterly made by A.I.

a human wrote the dialogue , you own the dialogues even if they where voiced by A.I in the movie.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von 🍋 Lemonfed 🍋:
technically big corporations can kind of find ways to 'own' what they create with A.I by ownning the sampled artworks and training data that was used to create their contents. ...
The law does not usually recognize that as an exception to the rule about generated works not being copyrightable. The edge-case exception being what you mentioned after that.

What the law does quite likely recognize as an exception ("quite likely" because it's a case by case basis when copyright disputes are initiated) is if you made edits to the generation after it was generated.

But here's the thing - if you generated it locally - (probably) no one can actually know or prove that you used a generation without making edits. Plenty of real artists have been falsely accused of "generating A.I. slop" by people who are not good content-discriminators, and as the tools get better ...it may become inherently impossible to accurately do any content-discrimination as to whether something is A.I. generated or not. For now there are USUALLY signs... but... even then... is that just a style you don't like or is that maybe a cheap instagram filter of a real photo? Maybe...

Now, we could criminalize A.I. art and put a heavy burden on all artists by throwing out due process for this crime and shifting the burden of proof so that people accused of creating A.I. art HAVE TO show a video of every stroke that they made and show their entire process / show their work. ...of course that doesn't prove that people who can't make those videos didn't make it themselves, it just means that we are assuming that they didn't through a process that goes directly against what fair and just judgement / convictions / handling of accusations are.

Like most anti-A.I. art sentiments, this is something that hobby artists and angry people (who maybe aren't thinking things through) might actually advocate for and would come back to bite them extremely hard if they actually were successful at getting such rules passed.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 🍋 Lemonfed 🍋:
... create the concept of a character by hand , you own the character itself even if your movie was enterly made by A.I. ...
This is the exception that I mentioned at the top of this response.
I have nothing more to say about this because what you claim about that specific application is correct.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 🍋 Lemonfed 🍋:
...
a human wrote the dialogue , you own the dialogues even if they where voiced by A.I in the movie.
dialogue is a much harder case to win a copyright case for because you have to be able to make the case that your dialogue was also unique enough to not be something commonly said, and thus actually copyrightable.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏:
While I think that there is room to argue against these points that you have made, they ARE really well-crafted points.

The language descriptivist in me at least says that "A.I. artist" has a semi-clear meaning, and while that's probably just prompt-engineering most of the time, the phrase does mean something and so even if the phrase is semantically incorrect in its usage - that's technically what they are just because that's how the phrase is used and we know what it probably actually entails.

I think the argument gets weaker when you generate a series of images and then string them together, even in the most basic example of creating a storyboard with them, because at that point the arrangement of the panels as they relate to a creation of a story is something that you're actually creating that the tool did not make on its own. But even then, your argument still holds up for the individual image generations, especially if they're entirely unedited.

There are arguments to be made against the accuracy of controlling every line, stroke, or detail of traditionally created works, but those only counter that particular statement - they don't counter your overall argument that prompt engineering is equivalent to crafting a request that you have commissioned.

The best parallel between A.I. generation and other image tools are photographs. Depending on how much extra work went into it depends on how much of it was really "created by the artist". When there is not a large amount of staging that goes into making a photo, it is almost offensive to claim that someone created that photo when a machine did all the work and all they did was point their phone at a sunset and press a button or something. *lol* It might be a very good image but there is a strong argument to be made that "they did not create that!"

All a programmer (probably a bunch of them) has to do is write a slick front end and you can tie together an image, voice/music and text/script "AI" generator to feed into each other, so the LLM prompt can do all 3 in sync with another AI co-coordinating to produce a movie. Not easy, but technically doable.

It is part of what actors+writers guild protests were, they can see the writing on the wall, for the whole movie making business.

No need for employees in a well setup prompt machine, at that point you don't even need a CEO (can replace C-Suite with AI too), the shareholders can vote on what the next hit movie can be about, using five words or less (title of the movie, essentially). The AI will probably suggest titles rather than the shareholders.

Such a situation might manifest 10-15 years away. All business goals align with cost reduction to enhance profits currently.

However the movies won't be good, they just be rehashes of old things that the AI predetermines sells well due to past data. Mostly betting this process will back fire, as I explained in first post, it'll be so formulaic it'll make everyone ill, just watch the old stuff instead?

They are working on AI that can actually problem solve proper advanced maths, which has been a challenge that has yet to fall but probably soon will. If they can pull this off, AI will make itself more efficient than humans could.

It's all about getting the stuff to "good enough". Which may or may not happen, the compute/power/cost requirements might be ridiculous to pull it off. Most of the big corps are gambling on it all working out in the end, they are all in.

Good post.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Utiviroo:
... No need for employees in a well setup prompt machine ...
While technically the image generator / generative A.I. is the artist, as :mrp:Saturn said,
but I'll add that : the generator does not have creativity of it's own (I actually know some ways to program this, and it's thanks to a particular meme that people overlooked the usefulness of years ago) and even if it did have creativity, it would not have the same creativity as specific people do.

Seasoned professionals can also add a polish about the generative A.I. outputs that it might not be able to produce on its own. Whether people will care about that polish or not is another matter.

On the more important A.I. topic than A.I. content generation, AGI may pose an extinction-level threat to us in the future, ...but in the event that it actually values diversity of ideas and perspectives and methods, we may be fortunate enough to both not go extinct and live in a world where the A.I. recognizes value within us that even we ourselves tend to overlook or downplay, which is simply the ability to think differently and approach the same subjects from different angles that the machines might not be inclined to do or might not be able to think about in the ways that we do easily. ...and while AGI is a more serious subject... what I just outlined also applies to generative A.I.

If nothing else, in a world where machines are smarter and more capable than us - as long as they have a shred of human compassion designed into them, we will at least be like cats to them - something that thinks and acts much differently than them which they may or may not see value in keeping around to watch or get small favors from. ...unless its the robots that are meant to be intimate companions that become ASI... then we might be stuck fulfilling our primitive desires instead of anything else, whether we want to or not...

In the interim, (between then and now) there will be things that generative A.I. just can't do because it doesn't have any examples to refer to or train on, and so consequently, anything that a production team wants to make that is outside the scope of what the tool can generate, will need to be created manually by people at least once - which at least results in people doing more unique work with less repetition than ever before. ...but only if they're capable of doing very skilled work.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Utiviroo:
... Such a situation might manifest 10-15 years away. All business goals align with cost reduction to enhance profits currently. ...
I estimate (due to the convergence of multiple technologies accelerating inventive progress in multiple domains) that we might see AGI no sooner than in 7 years, possibly even that soon. In which case, we'd bypass your scenario entirely and either go straight to extinction of all life on Earth, or extinction of just humans, or enslavement of humans, or most optimistically we instead go straight to discussions about rights for A.I. that might or might not be sentient.
That last one is last because every item in the list before it is a more immediate concern to get past before we get to that last item.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏; 9. Okt. 2024 um 20:52
Maria 9. Okt. 2024 um 22:48 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Boblin the Goblin:
Easy.

If a machine is responsible for drawing at least 80% of the image, copyright can't be applied.
So If art was 79% made from AI it can be copyrighted? Hell, naw.

Anywhere AI started to come around, no one could assume ownership, it belongs solely to the original artist that gets traced.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏:
Copyright doesn't even protect things from being traced and used as a pose basis, which happens all the time, and good thing too or you'd never be able to draw anything humanoid in any pose because Disney would have already snatched up all...
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏:
If you successfully motion for copyright law to be expanded to provide even more exclusive protections than it already does, just to combat one issue that you see with A.I. (that could often be better combated by bringing cases against individuals who misuse the tool) then it will have a huge amount of byproduct effects that I guarantee you won't like.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏:
Copyright is important but narrow and it's important that it stay narrow.
That's a good point. Please understand that the only reason why I brought up the copyright issues is because I have many frens who are 2D/3D artists. Obviously, they don't like having their hard work to get traced just like that.

As to how it is implemented or how it should be implemented I have no issue so long as it would be beneficial for all my frens.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏:
I don't understand the relevance of his question and when I asked for elaboration, I didn't really get anything that made sense to me.
In a nutshell, they just said that the technology is just too amazing now that you can't blame people for using it.

Kek. It was rhetorical, but actually, a bit pepega question because no matter how good your phone is in capturing your friend's homework doesn't make it okay for you to copy theirs. :mspoo:
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Maria; 9. Okt. 2024 um 23:05
even tracing by hand is of a bad taste if you trace over other peoples works repeatedly with arts piece you post online and the way you do it make it too much obvious about which piece you've traced over.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von 🍋 Lemonfed 🍋:
even tracing by hand is of a bad taste if you trace over other peoples works repeatedly with arts piece you post online and the way you do it make it too much obvious about which piece you've traced over.

There was an artist for DC who got caught tracing covers, and almost as soon as llm content was available he was caught using that too.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Boblin the Goblin:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Stormer:
its a tool that simulates getting another artist to draw something for you, a wacom is a tool that simulates a pen
It doesn't stimulate another artist, I stimulates a machine that scanned copyrighted art to make an approximation of what you tell it to.

One good thing about it is that art produced by AI is not eligible for copyright. So anyone can download AI art and sell it without consequences.

It simulates work, many of the tools used by digital artists are automations, its why so much of their output looks similar.

Just watch some speed painting by various artists.
Maria 9. Okt. 2024 um 23:20 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kamiyama:
AI is the next dotcom boom. It will be used for everything.

Instead of threatening people who use it, maybe you could try it and learn something new.
I won't comment on your first remark about AI because Saturn830 has made a really good reply to that.

But I think we can all agree that AI isn't all that bad and it isn't that we cannot use it at all.

As long as it solve the copyright issue no one would complain, really. Although you need to remember that insisting that arts created from AI belong to the person that made the prompt won't help, lel.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Maria; 9. Okt. 2024 um 23:24
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Spencer:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Boblin the Goblin:
It doesn't stimulate another artist, I stimulates a machine that scanned copyrighted art to make an approximation of what you tell it to.

One good thing about it is that art produced by AI is not eligible for copyright. So anyone can download AI art and sell it without consequences.

It simulates work, many of the tools used by digital artists are automations, its why so much of their output looks similar.

Just watch some speed painting by various artists.

I've watched a lot's of artist stream and not every digital artist use automation.
nullpo 9. Okt. 2024 um 23:33 
can you even call them artist in the first place? If you can that means the entire world is technically AI artist, since a baby who accidentally type some nonsense in PC while it's running the AI can technically generate some result
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