Digital Ownership Rights in Cross-Platform Gaming

[thefallinglink]

This thread is intended to bring to attention a serious issue involved in the next (and previous) generations of gaming.

Let's begin with the roots of console and PC games: that is, temporary "ownership" of content stored on a disc. (For the sake of simplicity I will be using Xbox 360 and Steam in all my examples). Let's say you own Borderlands 2 for the Xbox 360 on a disc and want to play instead on Steam. At first thought, it would seem that because you own the game you should be entitled to it for any system, so you contact Steam and say "hey I own this game let me play it" in hopes they'll give you a digital copy. But that wouldn't work; you could sell your hard copy but still own the game. Right there in owning a digital copy is where things get complicated: the terms and conditions for a digital copy -I would think- are different from those of a hard copy.

With a hard copy you are entitled to "fair use" of the software, meaning you have limited permission over the copywrited material. If you sell the disc, you no longer have access to the game. But owning a digital copy is a different story...

With a new generation focusing heavily on downloading games instead of buying discs, any consumer will eventually ask themself: "well what if I don't want the game anymore?"
Buying the digital copy of a game links full access to its content with your account, your identity, you alone. It is illegal to sell your account, so it is impossible to re-sell any game you download legally. This means rights and permissions are different from merely holding a hard copy: you have FULL ACCESS to said content. In other words, if a digital copy of the same game is available on a different platform, you should be entitled to that copy also; you paid for the license to access that content, not just limited permission provided by a copy of the software.

What I'm saying is ownership of a digital game is not the same as that of a hard copy, and our rights should be treated as such.

Back to the example, if steam were to give you a digital copy (after proof of purchase is provided) of Borderlands 2 you could then sell the disc yet still own the game. However, let's say you own a digital copy of Borderlands 2 on Xbox 360 and you want to play with your friends on steam. Steam granting another digital copy is simply allowing access to content you are entitled to under the license agreement; you can't sell your other digital copy now that you have it on Steam. If you had a disc you could sell it and buy the version for the console you want, but that is impossible with a digital copy due to a different license agreement.

I understand this all sounds rather complicated but please, tell me what you think. This is not just a suggestion, but a debate over what we are entitled to when we purchase a game.

[MalikQayum]

you are confusing steam with being the owner of these games.. they are not, as they do not own the rights to the games nor publish the games your issue is with the publishers / developers if you want to be able to resell your product you would need them to figure out something, sending valve proof of purchase for third party stuff is not their issue.

i think the issue here is that a lot of people buy hard copies and it comes with a steam cd key and they assume they can freely resell this along with the used steam cd key now i ofc do not have a hard copy of anyother game than cs 1.6 which is clearly labelled before i break the seal i need to agree to the SSA, then when you go to the SSA you agree on the stuff that you cant resell etc etc.. so what i think is happening is that other publishers label their game with a steam cd key but does not tell them to read the SSA or maybe they do tell them to agree on the SSA before opening i dont know but imo as a user you are warned.

[Lily]

Originally posted by thefallinglink:

I understand this all sounds rather complicated but please, tell me what you think. This is not just a suggestion, but a debate over what we are entitled to when we purchase a game. Please, let me access content I OWN on Steam!

Not a lawyer, but there's no chance in hell that you are legally entitled for Steam to give you a free copy of the PC version of a game just because you bought the Xbox360 version from Walmart. There's nothing to debate about what you are or are not entitled to: fact is, the law simply does not support your position in any way. Want to talk about what is moral, or what ought to be, go ahead, but don't claim that you're entitled to what you're asking for.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Originally posted by thefallinglink:

Most will think that because you own the game you should be entitled to it for any system

I would caution against claiming to speak for the majority.

Originally posted by thefallinglink:

you paid for the license to access that content, not just limited permission provided by a copy of the software.

This seems entirely contradictory. A license is all about limited permission. It has terms, and you paid for the license with those terms. That's what a license is for.

You are entitled to whatever it was that you agreed to pay for. If you paid for a license to play a game on Steam, then that's what you're entitled to, no more, no less. Same goes for the Xbox 360 side: if you bought Borderlands 2 on your Xbox, at no point in that transaction (I hope) was the product described to you as a license to play Borderlands 2 on any system you desire. Buying that Xbox game does not mean you own a license to play it on Steam, because you haven't paid for that license.

I think publishers selling licenses to play their games on any platform is a really interesting idea, but it's up to them to do that if they want to. They don't have to, we're not owed it.

[Ketchupmackan]

yes

[Start_Running]

YTawn it's not really that complicated. The reason you can't trade in one version for another... is because legally speaking the X box version and the Steam version are two different games. Two different products.

Asnfor digital, you don't puurchase games you purchase the right to have unlimited access to the game in someone else's library.

[Tito Shivan]

You need to get a better understanding on how licensing and software development works in real life.

Originally posted by Gus the Crocodile:

I think publishers selling licenses to play their games on any platform is a really interesting idea, but it's up to them to do that if they want to. They don't have to, we're not owed it.

Let's not forget licensing (and most important: developing) on different platforms have different costs and restrictions. You'd end up with license conflicts everywhere. (And having to cover the costs of developing for every platform with a single license purchase)

I just don't expect to be able to play a game in all platforms just like I don't expect to receive a Bluray copy of the StarWars trilogy because I own the DVDs (Or to have it on Google Play because I bought it on iTunes)

[76561198001062896]

This is never how it worked anywhere UNLESS explicitly stated

Not sure on what right you think that your entitled to more than what you paid for

Only thing you and anybody else ever owned when buying a game, be it on disk, steam, gog is the license to play it, NOTHING MORE.

[ KARR™]

In a way Valve already allows this on the formats that it sells.

Publishers are free to use "Steamplay". Purchase a title on Windows and you can state that you also get a copy that runs on Mac or Linux. OR you can choose not to do this and have different versions available for each platform. (Although this is rare and usually where different publishers sell the different versions)

Valve themselves sold Portal 2 on the playstation and gave away a free pc/mac/linux version. If other publishers want to do that... great. Go write to Ubisoft and tell them that you want a pc version of their game because you bought their ps4 version.

This works the EXACT same way as everything does.

You can buy a blu ray and the seller MAY decide to include a free DVD version, or a digital version you can play. Others may decide not to do this.

If you purchase a film on iTunes, you can't automatically write to Warner Brothers and tell them you demand the same film on their streaming service, or to Sky to allow you access to just that film on their service.

[76561198001062896]

Originally posted by K.A.R.R.:

In a way Valve already allows this on the formats that it sells.

Publishers are free to use "Steamplay". Purchase a title on Windows and you can state that you also get a copy that runs on Mac or Linux. OR you can choose not to do this and have different versions available for each platform. (Although this is rare and usually where different publishers sell the different versions)

Valve themselves sold Portal 2 on the playstation and gave away a free pc/mac/linux version. If other publishers want to do that... great. Go write to Ubisoft and tell them that you want a pc version of their game because you bought their ps4 version.

This works the EXACT same way as everything does.

You can buy a blu ray and the seller MAY decide to include a free DVD version, or a digital version you can play. Others may decide not to do this.

If you purchase a film on iTunes, you can't automatically write to Warner Brothers and tell them you demand the same film on their streaming service, or to Sky to allow you access to just that film on their service.

Exactly this

Im still unsure as to why some people though it was working the other way round tbh

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by Zetikla:

Exactly this

Im still unsure as to why some people though it was working the other way round tbh

Because the other way around allows them to be entitled to free stuff/

[thefallinglink]

Originally posted by Gustave5436:

Not a lawyer, but there's no chance in hell that you are legally entitled for Steam to give you a free copy of the PC version of a game just because you bought the Xbox360 version from Walmart. There's nothing to debate about what you are or are not entitled to: fact is, the law simply does not support your position in any way. Want to talk about what is moral, or what ought to be, go ahead, but don't claim that you're entitled to what you're asking for.

I didn't buy the game at Walmart, I paid for a digital copy from microsoft. I'm not a lawyer either, I'm just saying what makes sense to me based on what exactly it is I believe I paid for.

[fluxtorrent]

Originally posted by thefallinglink:

Originally posted by Gustave5436:

Not a lawyer, but there's no chance in hell that you are legally entitled for Steam to give you a free copy of the PC version of a game just because you bought the Xbox360 version from Walmart. There's nothing to debate about what you are or are not entitled to: fact is, the law simply does not support your position in any way. Want to talk about what is moral, or what ought to be, go ahead, but don't claim that you're entitled to what you're asking for.

I didn't buy the game at Walmart, I paid for a digital copy from microsoft. I'm not a lawyer either, I'm just saying what makes sense to me based on what exactly it is I believe I paid for.

I strongly suggest actually reading the terms and conditions in the future then.

[Von-Reaper]

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

Originally posted by thefallinglink:

I didn't buy the game at Walmart, I paid for a digital copy from microsoft. I'm not a lawyer either, I'm just saying what makes sense to me based on what exactly it is I believe I paid for.

I strongly suggest actually reading the terms and conditions in the future then.

Yah it be a smart idea to read "legal" doccuments, But i get legal stuff isnt everyones slice of pie.

For me it is my pie.

[76561198001062896]

Originally posted by thefallinglink:

Originally posted by Gustave5436:

Not a lawyer, but there's no chance in hell that you are legally entitled for Steam to give you a free copy of the PC version of a game just because you bought the Xbox360 version from Walmart. There's nothing to debate about what you are or are not entitled to: fact is, the law simply does not support your position in any way. Want to talk about what is moral, or what ought to be, go ahead, but don't claim that you're entitled to what you're asking for.

I didn't buy the game at Walmart, I paid for a digital copy from microsoft. I'm not a lawyer either, I'm just saying what makes sense to me based on what exactly it is I believe I paid for.

And where exactly did you paid for additional copies upon buying a game on steam?

Please enlighten us


Actually lemme ask it again what others did since you clearly dont get it: When you buy an xbox 360 game, do you expect to get a copy of the Xbox One version as well?

Do you expect to get the bluray version of a movie free of charge because you bought in on DVD?

Dont tell me that this analogy somewhat doesnt apply to digital distribution because it perfectly does, the same things do apply

You buy Y product: You get Y product, not Y+X product

This whole threads basically devolves into "Im entitled to free stuff because I said so", and you think that throwing in random legal terms somewhat justifies your reasoning.

[thefallinglink]

Originally posted by Zetikla:

Originally posted by thefallinglink:

I didn't buy the game at Walmart, I paid for a digital copy from microsoft. I'm not a lawyer either, I'm just saying what makes sense to me based on what exactly it is I believe I paid for.

And where exactly did you paid for additional copies upon buying a game on steam?

Please enlighten us


Actually lemme ask it again what others did since you clearly dont get it: When you buy an xbox 360 game, do you expect to get a copy of the Xbox One version as well?

Do you expect to get the bluray version of a movie free of charge because you bought in on DVD?

Dont tell me that this analogy somewhat doesnt apply to digital distribution because it perfectly does, the same things do apply

You buy Y product: You get Y product, not Y+X product

This whole threads basically devolves into "Im entitled to free stuff because I said so", and you think that throwing in random legal terms somewhat justifies your reasoning.

Such slander is immensely rude and disrespectful, but please allow me to defend myself against your accusations and explain what you so happily dumb down.

It is as easy to disagree with something you do not fully understand as it is to answer a difficult question you simply did not give enough thought. Read my original post again and you may see that I am not in fact using "random legal terms" to justify your idea that "Im entitled to free stuff because I said so" or that I expect to get "Y+X product" upon paying for "Y product." Additionally, a delay of response is not a clear signal of ignorance (as you so claim) and treating me like a six year old does not strengthen your argument but rather limits your credibility. (Need I explain said lack of ethos? Ethos stands for credibility in writing. Your offensive word choice warrants no respect, which makes any sensible person less inclined to believe you.) Now listen.

Basically, the problem I am posing is with buying the download for a game vs buying it on a disc. If you buy a game on a disc, you can sell it or trade it in later for a different version of the same game (e.g. going from Xbox 360 to Xbox One, or regular DVD to BluRay) but even that is unnecessary in the most part due to backwards compatibility. However, in the situation of a downloaded game you can't do that. There is no selling a download, so what are you supposed to do? Obviously you don't have the same restrictions/permissions because you can't do the same things with what you pay for. My question is directed at who is making and selling us these games, but I'm asking the Steam community: what redeemable qualities are there to a downloaded game if you can't sell or trade it?