Modern Companies Don't Understand Demographics

[Jackie Daytona]

I think one of the most misunderstood things in modern day are demographics. Decades ago some smart person looked at data. Specifically, traits common in customers. Then said, "Hey, most people that like this specific thing are of a certain mind. So, we should cater to people like that." This was a good. That made a lot of people A LOT of money.

Around 10 years ago, this idea was challenged. (Or at least, the challenge became popular. As it definitely existed before then.) Making the claim that demographics are created. As opposed to being a reflection of the audience.

So, a movie that's really liked by men? Well, that's because it was made for men. So therefore, you just need to make a movie for women. Then women will like it.

Except, that's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.

Women go to movies not because they exist and are made for them. They have independent minds. They make the choice based on interests and opinions. Same goes for men.

This ESPECIALLY applies to super-hero movies and shows. Making them by women, for women and about women will certainly draw some in. However, the female super-hero fan is far rarer than the male fan. Simply because less women are interested in superhero stories. This is not to say they don't exist. Just that there are less.

Don't believe me? Look at some wide-shots of the people at various comic conventions. (But you should go back quite a ways. As '90s fans of comics have been all but completely shut out of the industry.) Outside of cosplayers, it's mostly fat nerdy white dudes. (Not an insult. It's just how it is.)

The best way to profit is to market to the group most likely to be interested. A great example being 'Stargirl'. Clearly (the original concept was) meant for a teenage girl audience. I can't find public numbers with an exact breakdown of the audience. However, I would bet a huge chunk of them are adult males. Specifically, nerdy comic fans that know way too much about the JSA.

Why do I think this? It starts as a story about a diverse group of (mostly) girls in school. As it goes on, the series becomes less and less about Courtney. (And her friends.) More and more about the staff. The JSA. Starman. The step-father. The brother Mike. The mechanic dude. Even the Injustice Society. By the end, Stargirl feels like a side-character.

If none of that makes sense to you? (Or you are the open-minded feminist I hope reads this...) Consider: McDonald's. No, seriously.

For around 15 years (at least) MickeyD's has fallen under the false belief that they can change their image. That they can be a "high-end" chain. But no one with money wants to eat there. They can easily afford to go elsewhere.

So when they decide to drastically inflate prices? When they release "premium" lines of sandwiches? It doesn't work. Because they are trying to appeal to the wrong demographic.

Their coffee is a great example. McD's used to be THE place to get quick coffee. It was nasty. It was always way too hot. But it was CHEAP. The CHEAPEST. Even cheaper than most gas station coffee. And faster than comparable options. Plus, drive-thru.

Now? The price is outrageous. It's cold. It comes in a plastic cup. They want to add the sugar/cream for me. So, I have to make a special request to get it on the side. (Because minimum wagers don't care if I only want half a creamer and half a sugar packet. And will just dump whatever amount in.) Which only annoys the employees. Even though the process used to be them just grabbing a handful of each, and tossing them into your bag. Now it's "how many cream and sugars?" Slowing everything down.

Let's get back to the point. McDonald's is a place for fat, lazy, and/or (until recently) broke people. (No offense to anyone that has gone there.) I mean, it's got way too many calories and fat. Anyone with money will go someplace better. So, why try to appeal to a wealthy demographic?

Because someone convinced an entire company that the demographics don't matter. With nonsense like, "Raising prices will reduce volume of sales, but we'll make the same amount. And we'll need less employees. Which means more overall profit." And they rationalize with stuff like, "The customer willing to pay $12 for multiple burgers will be happy to pay $12 for 1 combo meal." Sophistry.

Another way of looking at it is the price-to-time ratio. (Something else fast food places have forgotten.) I will pay $7-8 and wait 30 minutes for a meal +pie +shake. But 20 minutes for a $15 Big Mac meal? (No extras!) No thanks. I'll go home and make my own burger.

I'm not alone in feeling this way. (If some public statements by McDonald's are any indication.) It seems they are finally catching on. With a rumor of a $5 McDouble meal.

A quick look at demographics could have saved them millions. That they wasted on remodels and new lines of products.

Same problem with Disney. They think they can appeal to anyone, and it will work. It won't. It never will.

Audiences are not self-segregating. It is like-minded people gathering. Out of a mutual love for a product. And these people? They are the customers that spend money. They are the people that stand in line, in the cold, for hours, just to see your movie. They are the people with walls full of unopened toys in their online videos.

My point is that demographics show you where your fans are. It does not show areas in need of improvement. Far too many confuse the two.

[Xero_Daxter]

Can you write my college essay on American reforms. Please and thank you.

[Frankie]

Is this some spam bot or AI donkey shi/te?

[Ȼħⱥꞥꞥēł8753452]

Messaggio originale di Jackie Daytona:

I think one of the most misunderstood things in modern day are demographics. Decades ago some smart person looked at data. Specifically, traits common in customers. Then said, "Hey, most people that like this specific thing are of a certain mind. So, we should cater to people like that." This was a good. That made a lot of people A LOT of money.

Around 10 years ago, this idea was challenged. (Or at least, the challenge became popular. As it definitely existed before then.) Making the claim that demographics are created. As opposed to being a reflection of the audience.

So, a movie that's really liked by men? Well, that's because it was made for men. So therefore, you just need to make a movie for women. Then women will like it.

Except, that's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.

Women go to movies not because they exist and are made for them. They have independent minds. They make the choice based on interests and opinions. Same goes for men.

This ESPECIALLY applies to super-hero movies and shows. Making them by women, for women and about women will certainly draw some in. However, the female super-hero fan is far rarer than the male fan. Simply because less women are interested in superhero stories. This is not to say they don't exist. Just that there are less.

Don't believe me? Look at some wide-shots of the people at various comic conventions. (But you should go back quite a ways. As '90s fans of comics have been all but completely shut out of the industry.) Outside of cosplayers, it's mostly fat nerdy white dudes. (Not an insult. It's just how it is.)

The best way to profit is to market to the group most likely to be interested. A great example being 'Stargirl'. Clearly (the original concept was) meant for a teenage girl audience. I can't find public numbers with an exact breakdown of the audience. However, I would bet a huge chunk of them are adult males. Specifically, nerdy comic fans that know way too much about the JSA.

Why do I think this? It starts as a story about a diverse group of (mostly) girls in school. As it goes on, the series becomes less and less about Courtney. (And her friends.) More and more about the staff. The JSA. Starman. The step-father. The brother Mike. The mechanic dude. Even the Injustice Society. By the end, Stargirl feels like a side-character.

If none of that makes sense to you? (Or you are the open-minded feminist I hope reads this...) Consider: McDonald's. No, seriously.

For around 15 years (at least) MickeyD's has fallen under the false belief that they can change their image. That they can be a "high-end" chain. But no one with money wants to eat there. They can easily afford to go elsewhere.

So when they decide to drastically inflate prices? When they release "premium" lines of sandwiches? It doesn't work. Because they are trying to appeal to the wrong demographic.

Their coffee is a great example. McD's used to be THE place to get quick coffee. It was nasty. It was always way too hot. But it was CHEAP. The CHEAPEST. Even cheaper than most gas station coffee. And faster than comparable options. Plus, drive-thru.

Now? The price is outrageous. It's cold. It comes in a plastic cup. They want to add the sugar/cream for me. So, I have to make a special request to get it on the side. (Because minimum wagers don't care if I only want half a creamer and half a sugar packet. And will just dump whatever amount in.) Which only annoys the employees. Even though the process used to be them just grabbing a handful of each, and tossing them into your bag. Now it's "how many cream and sugars?" Slowing everything down.

Let's get back to the point. McDonald's is a place for fat, lazy, and/or (until recently) broke people. (No offense to anyone that has gone there.) I mean, it's got way too many calories and fat. Anyone with money will go someplace better. So, why try to appeal to a wealthy demographic?

Because someone convinced an entire company that the demographics don't matter. With nonsense like, "Raising prices will reduce volume of sales, but we'll make the same amount. And we'll need less employees. Which means more overall profit." And they rationalize with stuff like, "The customer willing to pay $12 for multiple burgers will be happy to pay $12 for 1 combo meal." Sophistry.

Another way of looking at it is the price-to-time ratio. (Something else fast food places have forgotten.) I will pay $7-8 and wait 30 minutes for a meal +pie +shake. But 20 minutes for a $15 Big Mac meal? (No extras!) No thanks. I'll go home and make my own burger.

I'm not alone in feeling this way. (If some public statements by McDonald's are any indication.) It seems they are finally catching on. With a rumor of a $5 McDouble meal.

A quick look at demographics could have saved them millions. That they wasted on remodels and new lines of products.

Same problem with Disney. They think they can appeal to anyone, and it will work. It won't. It never will.

Audiences are not self-segregating. It is like-minded people gathering. Out of a mutual love for a product. And these people? They are the customers that spend money. They are the people that stand in line, in the cold, for hours, just to see your movie. They are the people with walls full of unopened toys in their online videos.

My point is that demographics show you where your fans are. It does not show areas in need of improvement. Far too many confuse the two.

The TL;DR: They're dumb

[GunsForBucks]

I can't believe I read the whole thing.

Well for those who want to know..

It starts with women and ends at McDs where they really have a coffee gripe apparently.

[Frankie]

Messaggio originale di GunsForBucks:

I can't believe I read the whole thing.

Well for those who want to know..

It starts with women and ends at McDs where they really have a coffee gripe apparently.

Even that is too long...

[Jackie Daytona]

Messaggio originale di Frankie:

Is this some spam bot or AI donkey shi/te?

Can you do anything other than make quick comments to slam people? Any insight into what I'm speaking about? No?

Your comment is needlessly insulting. If you disagree? Articulate a counter-argument.

[Jackie Daytona]

Messaggio originale di GunsForBucks:

I can't believe I read the whole thing.

Well for those who want to know..

It starts with women and ends at McDs where they really have a coffee gripe apparently.

This has nothing to do with coffee or women. Sorry if I went over your head.

Modern companies try to force demographics into being what they want them to be. Instead of appealing to what they are.

Is that simple enough for you? Or does that make your brain hurt?

[GunsForBucks]

Well joking aside, you make some decent observations. But frankly it just went on and on I can't remember a damn thing other than McDs being too expensive that it drives customers away.

and women .. what IDK

[GunsForBucks]

Messaggio originale di Jackie Daytona:

Messaggio originale di GunsForBucks:

I can't believe I read the whole thing.

Well for those who want to know..

It starts with women and ends at McDs where they really have a coffee gripe apparently.

This has nothing to do with coffee or women. Sorry if I went over your head.

Modern companies try to force demographics into being what they want them to be. Instead of appealing to what they are.

Is that simple enough for you? Or does that make your brain hurt?

No the woman demographic for movies super hero thing that was it

[Frankie]

Messaggio originale di Jackie Daytona:

Messaggio originale di Frankie:

Is this some spam bot or AI donkey shi/te?

Can you do anything other than make quick comments to slam people? Any insight into what I'm speaking about? No?

Your comment is needlessly insulting. If you disagree? Articulate a counter-argument.

Thanks all the same for for informing me of my options. I already am well versed with them though :-)

[Jackie Daytona]

Messaggio originale di Frankie:

Messaggio originale di Jackie Daytona:

Can you do anything other than make quick comments to slam people? Any insight into what I'm speaking about? No?

Your comment is needlessly insulting. If you disagree? Articulate a counter-argument.

Thanks all the same for for informing me of my options. I already am well versed with them though :-)

Seems to me your only comments on this site are trollololololololololol. The topic is demographics as used by the modern entertainment industry. Do you have any commentary towards that?

[Morkonan]

Messaggio originale di Jackie Daytona:

...
Except, that's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.

Sort of... yes. :)

Women go to movies not because they exist and are made for them. They have independent minds. They make the choice based on interests and opinions. Same goes for men.

Nobody "goes to" movies, anymore. And, women didn't flock to a movie unless it was a "Chick Flick" like "The Devil Wears Prada." You know what they did do? That's right, they went on dates with men that took them to movies. Why do you think an Action movie has a romance sub-plot that has no bewbs in it? There ya go...

...Don't believe me? Look at some wide-shots of the people at various comic conventions. (But you should go back quite a ways. As '90s fans of comics have been all but completely shut out of the industry.) Outside of cosplayers, it's mostly fat nerdy white dudes. (Not an insult. It's just how it is.)

And women that like fat nerdy white dudes... and comics. Though, why people actually end up putting in effort to go somewhere may have nothing with their predatory natures focused on the opposite, or any, sex.

...If none of that makes sense to you? (Or you are the open-minded feminist I hope reads this...) Consider: McDonald's. No, seriously.

Every chain relies on their menu consistency, "customer experience," and price efficiency.

McDonald's wanted an image change from "kids have fun here" to "breakfast drive-thru and yuppie lunch" crowd. Why? Those are dailies... You know how hard it is to pack up a bunch of kids in a van and shuffle them to McDonald's? You gonna do that every day? :) Plus, no parent is shelling out ten bucks per toddler, but people do throw money at coffee... which is about the most profitable thing besides tea that a restaurant can sell.

Don't discount "independent owners" who are a profit-center for McDonald's Corporate licensing/distribution, either. McDonald's is its own beast of a restaurant chain/system. It's almost as bad as PepsiCo...

So, why try to appeal to a wealthy demographic?

They will pay more. It really is that simple. They will buy a boutique sandwich/salad that costs just as much, or less, to make as a flat cheeseburger, but sells for five times as much because it has a dome-top lid and a spork.

Same problem with Disney. They think they can appeal to anyone, and it will work. It won't. It never will.

Pixar made Disney crap its pants...

"Disney Is Children's Movies and Animated Feature Films"

Suddenly, that idea wasn't so solid anymore, was it? Disney couldn't just rely on being the Go-To source for family and children entertainment in film. Nope. They got a rude awakening - People will actually flock to see a good kid's movie.

So, what did that leave them with? Suddenly, everyone realized that they didn't have to be Disney in order to make DisneyMoney from a feature film targeting the family audience.

Disney crapped their pants. Twice.

'Cause, all that left them with was their Theme Parks. Good money, but the theme parks stay in the public's mind because of the Disney logo flashing across the screen at the movie theater.

I'm sure there''s a bunch of case-studies out there that cover Disney's evolution into becoming an IP Predator. You don't think they bought Star Wars because they liked the movies, right? :)

...My point is that demographics show you where your fans are. It does not show areas in need of improvement. Far too many confuse the two.

Demographics can show you whatever the presenter wants to show you outside of just the flat composition, itself.


I once presented a detailed report concerning demographics to a political group. My team was charged with collecting and analyzing the data to target specific interest groups and concerns. OK, fine...

If you weaponized a demographics presentation, you'd have a non-lethal WMD.

That's why most of it was graphs, heat maps, and illustrations. I was careful to use this group's buzzwords every few minutes, too - It kept them limited to short naps.


Here's the thing - Demographics can show "what is." Demographics can not, itself, show "what will be."

So, tons and tons of data gets squirted out about demographics, but those numbers can only be used for predictive value if you have sound mechanics that you can prove will occur when x and y meet z and they have lunch.

And, few people can do that. In fact, at the very best, you can only predict likely trends based upon a few known variables. Most of those deal with things that people trying to sell a movie don't give a crap about. Instead, they care about what the THINK they can do because they believe the demographics tell them so...


How about this - Why aren't people going to the movies?

Well, we know that streaming services are the new medium, right? So, streaming services killed the movie theater?

No.

The collapse of "shopping centers" and "malls" killed the movie theater. Streaming services just bled them dry and Covid murdered them in their sleep.

Amazon did the rest...

Some creative commercial concerns think that demographic research, while valuable, is a "killer app magic pill" that will ensure success if only they can make that magic goose quack for them. To do that, they believe they need to "target their demographic."

OK..

What demographic likes "good" movies?

"Well, that's too hard, so just skip that one! How about... what audience can we guarantee brand loyalty from to get them to fill seats and eat SnackySmores™?"

"Create one?"

"BRILLIANT! OUR OWN DEMOGRAPHIC!"

(I am very serious about that. It's not a joke. If you think it's a joke... "You Should Feel Bad About Being A Misogynist ™.")

[MinionJoe]

Messaggio originale di Jackie Daytona:

Do you have any commentary towards that?

Sure.

You need to look up DEI and ESG grants to understand why companies are creating media not aimed at their predominant markets.

[DoomsDay]

Messaggio originale di Jackie Daytona:

I think one of the most misunderstood things in modern day are demographics. Decades ago some smart person looked at data. Specifically, traits common in customers. Then said, "Hey, most people that like this specific thing are of a certain mind. So, we should cater to people like that." This was a good. That made a lot of people A LOT of money.

Around 10 years ago, this idea was challenged. (Or at least, the challenge became popular. As it definitely existed before then.) Making the claim that demographics are created. As opposed to being a reflection of the audience.

So, a movie that's really liked by men? Well, that's because it was made for men. So therefore, you just need to make a movie for women. Then women will like it.

Except, that's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.

Women go to movies not because they exist and are made for them. They have independent minds. They make the choice based on interests and opinions. Same goes for men.

This ESPECIALLY applies to super-hero movies and shows. Making them by women, for women and about women will certainly draw some in. However, the female super-hero fan is far rarer than the male fan. Simply because less women are interested in superhero stories. This is not to say they don't exist. Just that there are less.

Don't believe me? Look at some wide-shots of the people at various comic conventions. (But you should go back quite a ways. As '90s fans of comics have been all but completely shut out of the industry.) Outside of cosplayers, it's mostly fat nerdy white dudes. (Not an insult. It's just how it is.)

The best way to profit is to market to the group most likely to be interested. A great example being 'Stargirl'. Clearly (the original concept was) meant for a teenage girl audience. I can't find public numbers with an exact breakdown of the audience. However, I would bet a huge chunk of them are adult males. Specifically, nerdy comic fans that know way too much about the JSA.

Why do I think this? It starts as a story about a diverse group of (mostly) girls in school. As it goes on, the series becomes less and less about Courtney. (And her friends.) More and more about the staff. The JSA. Starman. The step-father. The brother Mike. The mechanic dude. Even the Injustice Society. By the end, Stargirl feels like a side-character.

If none of that makes sense to you? (Or you are the open-minded feminist I hope reads this...) Consider: McDonald's. No, seriously.

For around 15 years (at least) MickeyD's has fallen under the false belief that they can change their image. That they can be a "high-end" chain. But no one with money wants to eat there. They can easily afford to go elsewhere.

So when they decide to drastically inflate prices? When they release "premium" lines of sandwiches? It doesn't work. Because they are trying to appeal to the wrong demographic.

Their coffee is a great example. McD's used to be THE place to get quick coffee. It was nasty. It was always way too hot. But it was CHEAP. The CHEAPEST. Even cheaper than most gas station coffee. And faster than comparable options. Plus, drive-thru.

Now? The price is outrageous. It's cold. It comes in a plastic cup. They want to add the sugar/cream for me. So, I have to make a special request to get it on the side. (Because minimum wagers don't care if I only want half a creamer and half a sugar packet. And will just dump whatever amount in.) Which only annoys the employees. Even though the process used to be them just grabbing a handful of each, and tossing them into your bag. Now it's "how many cream and sugars?" Slowing everything down.

Let's get back to the point. McDonald's is a place for fat, lazy, and/or (until recently) broke people. (No offense to anyone that has gone there.) I mean, it's got way too many calories and fat. Anyone with money will go someplace better. So, why try to appeal to a wealthy demographic?

Because someone convinced an entire company that the demographics don't matter. With nonsense like, "Raising prices will reduce volume of sales, but we'll make the same amount. And we'll need less employees. Which means more overall profit." And they rationalize with stuff like, "The customer willing to pay $12 for multiple burgers will be happy to pay $12 for 1 combo meal." Sophistry.

Another way of looking at it is the price-to-time ratio. (Something else fast food places have forgotten.) I will pay $7-8 and wait 30 minutes for a meal +pie +shake. But 20 minutes for a $15 Big Mac meal? (No extras!) No thanks. I'll go home and make my own burger.

I'm not alone in feeling this way. (If some public statements by McDonald's are any indication.) It seems they are finally catching on. With a rumor of a $5 McDouble meal.

A quick look at demographics could have saved them millions. That they wasted on remodels and new lines of products.

Same problem with Disney. They think they can appeal to anyone, and it will work. It won't. It never will.

Audiences are not self-segregating. It is like-minded people gathering. Out of a mutual love for a product. And these people? They are the customers that spend money. They are the people that stand in line, in the cold, for hours, just to see your movie. They are the people with walls full of unopened toys in their online videos.

My point is that demographics show you where your fans are. It does not show areas in need of improvement. Far too many confuse the two.

[Jackie Daytona]

Messaggio originale di GunsForBucks:

Messaggio originale di Jackie Daytona:

This has nothing to do with coffee or women. Sorry if I went over your head.

Modern companies try to force demographics into being what they want them to be. Instead of appealing to what they are.

Is that simple enough for you? Or does that make your brain hurt?

No the woman demographic for movies super hero thing that was it

What is not to understand? More men than women are into comics. Making comic book movies for women is folly.

If I were to make a list of top 100 favorite comic characters? There would be a lot of women on there. Including: Wonder Woman, Starfire, Storm, Jean Grey, Rogue, Poison Ivy, Black Cat, Catwoman, Mary Jane Watson, Lois Lane, Jubilee, and White Queen. (And probably more I can't think of at this exact moment.)

There is a way to do all these characters. We haven't seen it done well. Depictions of these characters have been intentionally inaccurate. Starfire was race-swapped. As was Mary Jane. Poison Ivy suddenly became gay.

All of this in an effort to appeal to tiny demographics. You should appeal to the CORE demographic. You can't seriously expect white nerdy dudes to be into a chubby black Starfire. That doesn't sell merch. Todd McFarlane Mary Jane figurines sell for hundreds.

I'm fine with companies doing social justice stuff. Sometimes it's good. But if you fundamentally alter a classic character for a "modern audience"? Then be prepared for the core audience to hate your product. That's all I'm trying to say.