Is Pavel Durov an accessory to crimes?

[Ghost Rider]

If I build a house and rent it to drug dealers, arms dealers, for children pornography, and I know what they do, am I an accessory?

If I build a house and rent it to drug dealers, arms dealers, for children pornography, and I don't know what they do, am I an accessory? 🤔

[JD]

It all depends on the judge and country the crime took place in. I know an American man who tried to hide money from the IRS. He served 4 years in prison.

His brother, mother, and father served one year in prison for being an accessory to the crime. His parents knew nothing about his criminal activity, yet both were imprisoned. His brother lived over 2000 miles away, yet was still seen as an accessory. Judges can be inconsistent in their sentencing.

As for Pavel, only the judge will determine if he is an accessory.

[Vox]

Something you want to share OP?

[Duck Twacy]

Ghost Rider님이 먼저 게시:

If I build a house and rent it to drug dealers, arms dealers, for children pornography, and I know what they do, am I an accessory?

If I build a house and rent it to drug dealers, arms dealers, for children pornography, and I don't know what they do, am I an accessory? 🤔

Presumably you just built the building, and then moved onto other construction projects.

This individual possibly knew and participated in illicit acts using his media platform.

[Original Cast Recording]

Ghost Rider님이 먼저 게시:

If I build a house and rent it to drug dealers, arms dealers, for children pornography, and I know what they do, am I an accessory?

If I build a house and rent it to drug dealers, arms dealers, for children pornography, and I don't know what they do, am I an accessory? 🤔

Obviously jurisdictions vary. But I'm pretty sure if they could prove you knew about it, then yes. You could be a part of the racket, or at least an accessory, aiding and abetting, etc.

Someone in this position might in fact be charging the tenants extra to keep quiet. On the other hand, it's also possible they could be turning a blind eye because they've been threatened. So, as usual, the details would be considered before anyone actually went to trial.

And one of the ways law enforcement learn about those details is by bringing in suspects.

What I read is that Durov is not currently being charged. They just scooped him up for questioning. And you'd think he might've been aware of that possibility when he traveled there, but I'm not sure whether anyone communicated that to him.

[Electric Cupcake]

No. But that never stopped tyrants and inquisitions.

[Competizione]

Ghost Rider님이 먼저 게시:

If I build a house and rent it to drug dealers, arms dealers, for children pornography, and I know what they do, am I an accessory?

If I build a house and rent it to drug dealers, arms dealers, for children pornography, and I don't know what they do, am I an accessory? 🤔

In both cases the answer is no, because the only thing you did was rent out property, which in itself is not a crime. In the first case it could be criminal negligence at best.

Pavel’s just a political prisoner because the EU really wants to spy on its citizens.

[Fake]

Toyota pickup trucks are a favorite of isis/Taliban. Will the French arrest Akio Toyoda?

[Abaddon the Despoiler]

It's a tricky one.

I say they should flip a coin to decide.

[hypercybermegatron]

Ghost Rider님이 먼저 게시:

If I build a house and rent it to drug dealers, arms dealers, for children pornography, and I know what they do, am I an accessory?

If I build a house and rent it to drug dealers, arms dealers, for children pornography, and I don't know what they do, am I an accessory? 🤔

The real question is, what happens if there is evidence of crimes being committed?

If law enforcement has evidence of these crimes happening in your house and they requests your cooperation but you don't cooperate, should there be legal consequences?

If you're house is helping these crimes flourish, and there is evidence, but you don't cooperate what consequences should the home owner face?

[Original Cast Recording]

the term “material support or resources” means any property, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who may be or include oneself), and transportation, except medicine or religious materials

--- From the US code relating to support for terrorism.

Like I said, jurisdictions vary. I don't read French. And I don't know where OP is.

[Saturn830]

The analogy would be more like buying and renting a million homes and maybe a few dozen being inhabited by criminals. To some degree the buck stops at the top, but also to some degree no human can realistically micromanage everything that happens in an ecosystem of millions.

[ナルゴ]

Ghost Rider님이 먼저 게시:

If I build a house and rent it to drug dealers, arms dealers, for children pornography, and I know what they do, am I an accessory?

If I build a house and rent it to drug dealers, arms dealers, for children pornography, and I don't know what they do, am I an accessory? 🤔

That's exactly why the arrest is ridiculous.
That's like saying a bomber used a particular telecoms service to detonate their explosive, therefore T-Mobile US In is culpable for terrorism.

[a profile]

you're only an accessory if the government wants you to be one, and if they decide to try you as one they're essentially hinging their entire case on that one point.

tons of precedents of people whose nature as an accessory was a minor, practically insubstantial part of the case against them, who got to walk because they defeated it.

I'm recalling some of the British financial interests involved in the 2009 crash for instance, or Bernie Madoff's associates.

[Original Cast Recording]

Saturn830님이 먼저 게시:

The analogy would be more like buying and renting a million homes and maybe a few dozen being inhabited by criminals. To some degree the buck stops at the top, but also to some degree no human can realistically micromanage everything that happens in an ecosystem of millions.

Fair point. But I think there'd be a difference between expecting said mega-landlord to personally take responsibility for everything his tenants do and expecting him to cooperate with inquiries regarding those tenants.

People are acting like the guy is already on trial.

[pants]

Durov's problem is thus. And this is a very simplified version so don't @ me

1) Many Telegram users do not enable encryption. It is not a default setting. It's the secret chats function if I remember right. THIS DOES NOT WORK FOR GROUP CHATS.
2) Telegram's servers, as I recall, do much of the encryption legwork. For non-encrypted data, they can very easily read/write/delete/etc it if they are ordered to. For not so encrypted data, i.e. cloud storage stuff... they can just decrypt it, iirc.
3) Durov owns Telegram
4) Durov has had the full capability to prevent CERTAIN unencrypted illegal communications when asked to
5) Durov's ironclad legal defence would have been if all communication had been encrypted from the first instance and he thus would never have any idea about any content. Unfortunately that is not the case

tl;dr: oops no encryption. oops TECHNICALLY being ARGUABLY* legally on some level being complicit due to knowledge of crimes happening and not doing anything about it. lol all those group chats are going to be full of juicy stuff aren't they. and by that i mean the fun crimes, not the CSAM


*Horseman would not argue this, but a court of law probably will