[Agnostic thoughts] Is God's nature inherently evil?

[WarHeRo]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

[Dutchgamer1982]

Stingray_tm님이 먼저 게시:

Dutchgamer1982님이 먼저 게시:

Gods rule determines what is Good or not.

So if God commands to rape babies, this is "good"?

nobody is as blind as one that cannot see..

will is deeper than comand.. it is nature..
and I can say Gods nature not desires such things.
so the question here is irrelevant.


also we have the scripture and the spirit of God never goes against that.. and with so many texts about not harming children and sexual purity... you know God never would order such a thing..

but if you must make it theoretical..

but yeah.. when God demanded that abraham made a human sacrifice out of his own son.. it was correct to follow that command.. that God prevented that from actional happening also shows Gods nature.. but obediance is needed.

likewise if God gave such a rape command you should follow though given Gods nature.. it would never boil down to actual happening and be more a test to show how far our obediance goes.
-> that said if given a command we KNOW goes against scripture like when satan tempted jesus we need to reject it..

[Stingray_tm]

Dutchgamer1982님이 먼저 게시:

likewise if God gave such a rape command you should follow though given Gods nature.. it would never boil down to actual happening and be more a test to show how far our obediance goes.
-> that said if given a command we KNOW goes against scripture like when satan tempted jesus we need to reject it..

Only that God commanded the Israelites to kill infants and children. Which they then did. It wasn't a test, it was a command, that was followed through.

He also specifically killed all first born Egyption children.

At this point it makes no sense to argue with a person like you anymore, because you are exactly on the same level as suicide bombers who justify their actions with their religion.

You are willing to commit atrocities, if you think this is in alignment with your religion.

Also you are trying to claim, that "god would never follow through with a command or raping children". Why? Because you inject your morals, that raping children wouild be wrong? You earlier said, that your personal morals have no bearing on gods commands being good or wrong. So you would be okay with god ordering to rape children, if he meant it.

[Dutchgamer1982]

WarHeRo님이 먼저 게시:

Lime님이 먼저 게시:

If no-one travels back in time to stop you, did you really do anything wrong?

If we consider time as the fourth dimension, I doubt it can ever be bent. Therefore, time travel seems more fantastical than the idea of creating matter from nothing, especially since the first law of thermodynamics states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

time itself is an illusion created as part of this univse by God to be our prison.

we are created in Gods immage, God is spirit so are we.
-> time, and the entropy that comes with it does not excist for God.. nor does matter, or space in 3 dimentions and such.. and as such heaven also is not limited to any of that.

our fall from grace was infinitely worse than that when Q in startrek was made a mortal human or when the acended ancients in stargate retake human form...

for those "higher beings" in startrek still are trapped in their higher form within the constructs of the universe.. while God excists outside it.. outside time, outside matter outside dimentions.>

all of that are creations.. to run this "simulation" this test to see if we are worthy to return to our proper realm to live with God again.

and once back there.. we will have no memory of ever being here.. this place in reality never even excisted at all.. it not just be as that was in the past.. originally it would never excist.. and when we return.. this universe.. time matter etc will never have ever escisted.

kind of insane that some idiots in the light eternity.. worry so much for the excistance in this multi layered prison.. our bodies prisons of flesh.. trapped in a prison of time and matter and dimantions.
we don't HAVE souls.. we ARE souls. the rest is a prison to contain them.
we are already immortal.. what only happens is we get rid of our prison.
but while the banishment in this temporal plane is as if it never excisted.. ETERNAL banishment is all the more real.. and to risk eternal bashment just cause you found this insignificant period here soooooo important... it be utterly insane..

[WarHeRo]

HermitTheToad님이 먼저 게시:

I would say that God prevents evil through both through himself and by Christians.
Evil, or as we call sin, came from the Garden of Eden, when Adam and Eve, disobeyed Gods command and ate of the fruit of knowledge. Evil did not come from God, but us, even though we are created in his image, it is a fundamental truth that we are flawed beings. In the Old Testament there are even recordings and accounts of God himself preventing evil by striking down armies, or foreign kings, as what they were doing was evil in his sight. This even happened to the Israelites, his chosen people, as they forsook his word and were turned over into slavery at the hands of the Egyptians. Another example of God preventing evil is the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
Jesus is not God's son in the literal sense but a part of God's being. In the Christian faith we have the trinity, which is the father, the son, and the holy spirit. All of which make up God, a perfect infinite being beyond our flawed comprehension. When Jesus was Crucified, God himself sacrificed his life to atone for our sins. It is impossible to remove sin from this world, God tried to in the Old Testament, with the great flood. The only day when sin and evil will be removed in in the second coming, when God destroys the earth, and all that is not just in his sight. But what the crucifixion allows us a Christians is to have repentance of our sins, and for use to have faith in Jesus. Which reinforces our desire to do good works in his name.
Ultimately, we believe that it is all according to God's plan.
Idk, maybe I just ranted, maybe I didn't even answer the question. Though it might be interesting.
Sorry if it wasn't useful, I'm not trying to be argumentative.

Who created those foreign kings? Arent they God’s creation too? Why didn’t God send prophets to them, considering we’re discussing Abrahamic religions? If the Abrahamic God is the only God, why does the Torah mention that He was at war with other gods? Why are other gods mentioned in a monotheistic religion? How can a monotheistic God win against other gods if He is supposed to be the only God? By definition, the Abrahamic God is omnipotent. So, according to the paradox and your logic, if God is willing but not able, then He is not omnipotent. Therefore, all holy books are just made-up stories.
If God is the creator of everything, how can it be that evil came to exist outside of his desires?

[vkobe]

WarHeRo님이 먼저 게시:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

he is universe sanbox+the sims+sims city player

[Lime]

WarHeRo님이 먼저 게시:

Lime님이 먼저 게시:

If no-one travels back in time to stop you, did you really do anything wrong?

If we consider time as the fourth dimension, I doubt it can ever be bent. Therefore, time travel seems more fantastical than the idea of creating matter from nothing, especially since the first law of thermodynamics states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

changing the world is as difficult as changing your mind
because the result is the same

[Dutchgamer1982]

Darius님이 먼저 게시:

HermitTheToad님이 먼저 게시:

In the Old Testament there are even recordings and accounts of God himself preventing evil by striking down armies, or foreign kings, as what they were doing was evil in his sight. This even happened to the Israelites, his chosen people, as they forsook his word and were turned over into slavery at the hands of the Egyptians. Another example of God preventing evil is the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
Jesus is not God's son in the literal sense but a part of God's being. In the Christian faith we have the trinity, which is the father, the son, and the holy spirit. All of which make up God, a perfect infinite being beyond our flawed comprehension.

Over 150 million people have been murdered by the adherents of this particular 'god', including the near wipe-out of natives in the Americas. And no, much like communism doesn't, christianity also gets no 'mitigating circumstances'. The church was all in favor of these land grabs and mass deaths of the natives who refused to hand over their wealth and resources.

One only has to take a brief look at Europe's history between the fall of the western Roman Empire and the start of the French revolution to see the malign influence of this religion. Endless persecutions, subjugation, exploitation, mass murder etc...

All because of the unholy trinity of 'royalty, 'nobility' and 'clergy' conspiring to keep ordinary people down through systematic subjugation and exploitation. Endless war, genocides such as the 30 years war comes to mind where the catholic church sponsored genocide against protestants as they did when the French catholic kings committed various mass murders against Huguenots because they were 'heretics' by the Vatican's standard. Spain waged 80 years war against Netherlands because the church didn't want to lose revenues.

All of that in the name of something that doesn't even exist. Thousands of years and counting and still not a shred of remotely believable evidence in sight, unlike evolution where it just keeps piling up.

Believe what you want to, but don't expect me to not call out the true record of christianity, which consists of genocide, slavery, colonisation, land theft, wealth theft, resource theft and child theft (native children were kidnapped and forcibly converted on threat of death).

there is a difference between what God orders and what his claiming to be followers do.
->
the church (when with that you mean the catholic church or a similair institute) is also of no consequence to God.

so just cause a person who says they follow God/lead the church does terrible things does NOT mean the God they claim to follow orders any of that.. they can just be false christians.. or christians who are at that moment not at all obeying their God.

the bible is clear... : thou shalt not kill, turn the other cheek etc.,

also "it is pointless to place Gods laws upon the world (that is others who are not christian" so actually the bible forbids to go places and burn other peoples stuff...
-> ofcourse when people come to believe and themselves toss all their pagan stuff in the fire thats a great party.. but such a thing can NOT be forced upon anybody..
**for it is pointless for the heathens to follow Gods laws and still go to hell..

that catholic church and kids so often cared more for power than to truelly follow Christ.

what we DO have a is a gazillion reasons to banish a person aka no longer allow them to visit our gatherings as christians.. and see them as equal to a heathen..
that does not mean the excommunication like.. go out and kill them as was falsely done..
but it does mean that well.. not all that SAY they are christian we see as such but only those who also do His will.. the rest we shun kind of.

[The nameless Gamer]

13 crusades, witch hunts involving brutal torture, the massacre of Montsegur, the Bartholomew night, the 30 year war, the genocide of natives across the Atlantic... for a religion preaching mercy and loving thy neighbor, many atrocities and crimes against humanity have been committed in the name of the christian god.

[Stingray_tm]

Dutchgamer1982님이 먼저 게시:

so just cause a person who says they follow God/lead the church does terrible things does NOT mean the God they claim to follow orders any of that.. they can just be false christians.. or christians who are at that moment not at all obeying their God.

The Bible, which I assume you base your believe system on, is very clear about god ordering his people to kill infants and also about him killing infants himself. Anybody who defends that, is a moral monster.

[Walach]

In my opinion, god doesn't exist. One of the many reason for my opinion is because of what you wrote, OP.

If an all loving god creates evil and/or suffering, then that god isn't all loving in my opinion.

Also the contradictions, and much more makes no god I know of possible to be in any shape or form a real thing. There's probably a lot of, "but what about X," or " have you thought of Y" of course, but none I've heard of have been able to change my view, yet.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Stingray_tm님이 먼저 게시:

Dutchgamer1982님이 먼저 게시:

so just cause a person who says they follow God/lead the church does terrible things does NOT mean the God they claim to follow orders any of that.. they can just be false christians.. or christians who are at that moment not at all obeying their God.

The Bible, which I assume you base your believe system on, is very clear about god ordering his people to kill infants and also about him killing infants himself. Anybody who defends that, is a moral monster.

ah the old testament wars.... yes.. and nothing wrong was done there.. also.. nobody was truelly killed since we are all immortal souls.. and God decieded every moment were alive.. basicly it is impossible to die before reaching the time God predertermined for every human.
sure we still have free will.. but if you already know every actual every thing that ever going to happen.. you can arrange all of that to lead to the exact outcome..
so nothing happens without God "allowing"" it..

and nothing immoral about that.
we are Gods property if he desires to delite us.. thats HIS paradime.. but it is not unto us.. to start offing eachother... on our own accord...

[Stingray_tm]

Dutchgamer1982님이 먼저 게시:

Stingray_tm님이 먼저 게시:

The Bible, which I assume you base your believe system on, is very clear about god ordering his people to kill infants and also about him killing infants himself. Anybody who defends that, is a moral monster.

ah the old testament wars.... yes.. and nothing wrong was done there.. also.. nobody was truelly killed since we are all immortal souls.. and God decieded every moment were alive.. basicly it is impossible to die before reaching the time God predertermined for every human.

As I said before: You are on the same argumentative level as a suicide bomber.

You are literally saying, that raping children is okay, if god commands it.

This is evil.

[The nameless Gamer]

Stalin: "People aren't forced to obey me! People can choose to obey or freeze in the Gulag!"

God: "People aren't forced to obey me! People can choose to obey or burn in Hell!"

I think the only difference is the temperature of the torture.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Stingray_tm님이 먼저 게시:

Dutchgamer1982님이 먼저 게시:

ah the old testament wars.... yes.. and nothing wrong was done there.. also.. nobody was truelly killed since we are all immortal souls.. and God decieded every moment were alive.. basicly it is impossible to die before reaching the time God predertermined for every human.

As I said before: You are on the same argumentative level as a suicide bomber.

You are literally saying, that raping children is okay, if god commands it.

it is.. but given how many bibleverses are against it and such.. you know how far stretched that is.. and never going to happen.

[miakisfan]

Nülliflower님이 먼저 게시:

god created evil, why would he prevent his own creation

Uh ... it wasn't God who ate the apple. I don't think you got how that worked, but then again being a non-believer.

WarHeRo님이 먼저 게시:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

I could say the same about Liberal voters who are watching what is happening right now and what happened over the last 3 1/2 years and are still voting Liberal to this day. Calling them incompetent and ignorant is being nice. They are also neither willing nor able to smarten up and vote them out.

You believe what you want even when you don't know the truth. See, until we die we won't know if there really is a God or not so you can say whatever you want until that day turns up.

If you are lucky He will be as forgiving as they write about and forgive you for saying all this.

Not that I expect you to understand all that. You are too busy only thinking about God being *evil* to remember if there is a little of one in Him there is a little of the other.