Vegans, why are you vegan?

[KennyAtom]

just wondering, why do people willingly go vegan?

[76561198278961361]

Nostradamus Shannon の投稿を引用：

🍓 Strawberry Flavored 🍓 の投稿を引用：

It's obvious that you shouldn't believe everything on the internet, but there's enough information about how cruel this industry is.
I find it weird you said 'Did you witness it yourself? If no then how can you believe it." when there's footage out there that proves that animals are being abused. Why would you say something like this right after somebody found out the truth?

Also I didn't give you any awards, but it seems like you're kinda bothered by getting so many jester awards, because you feel the need to point it out in your comment and on your profile.

Nope not bothered by it at all what makes you thing that? I just love how people are throwing their points at a handsome guy like me. I feel honored. But it also proves that giving me jester awards people hate me because i'm more handsome then them and they can't stand it so they give me jester awards. But i like the points and every award i get, gets me closer to 5 million points goal by years end. So give me more points i love them and you are only helping me not have to spend my money with valve and i can spend it else where. But thanks for stalking my profile. I might as well stalk yours also.

you are the literal embodiment of the masked crying wojak

[Dutchgamer1982]

no vegan here.. but I ust wanted to toss in my 5 cents..

I have known people who are vegetarian for many years.. and I am totally fine with them.
-they care for annimal wellbeing.. and most vegetarians I know will eat meat but only if they know the annimal it came from.. like cradle to grave and how it lived so they know it had a life upto their, not some organisations standards, and was killed in their view on what was not cruel not some organisations standards.
**this because lables on a package of meat can be falsefied.. and even organic standards are often still quite cruel (hanging a block of salt on a rope.. giving 1 meter of indoor concreet floor instead of 1.2 meter... have the manure fall through slids instead of metal rosters and have a tiny field of muddy grass of 20m2 connected to a 10000m2 indoor pigstall and that qualifies as highest tear organic 3 star farming.. and they are still cramped in the same vans to be transported for upto 2 hours rides.. to gaschambers to be gassed..
-> and thats the BEST standard mind you..

**when I think organic farming I think 20m2 shed, for perhaps 5-6 pigs, with a large 100m2 field including a nice mudpool, and them being fed peels and remains from the farmers own household.. with added supermarkt trowaways.. and when it is time to butcher one.. it is taken to the shed.. than a sharp blade makes a cut.. and the annimal slowly dies in his owners arms (I have witnessed this method of butchering and it is much less hurtfull to the annimal.. as it is very calm and just dowses off.. sure it means taking 1 person 2 hours just to kill 1 pig.. but lets be decent about it..

**I even heared this sermon from a preacher that said "we lock up the annimals, and be beasts ourself" -> as a critique that christians have gotten from God the task to take care of earth, and sure it does mean we may eat all annimals, it also obligates us to take care of nature, and treat the creations of God propertly... and with many farmers christian..christian political parties often don't like green policies and actual resist limitations on pesticide use, annimal welfare laws etc.. as many christians are also farmers...
**
so being a christian I fully get how people don't support the bio industry as it is today.. I don't either.
I can also see how people seeing that will go vegetarian..
->
for on top of even organic meat not being upto our personal standard.. it is well known that upto 40% of organic labled food may actually NOT be organic.. a lot of cheating with the lables does happen..

but the reason those vegetarians were more influentual to me.. is because they did not judge or were overly preachy.. and they actually had a reasonable point.. if I visit a vegetarians house.. they will not force me to eat vegetarian food.. they will buy and prepare some meat for me if I so desire.. and adapting my meals for them is also very easy.. just leave the meat out is often enough sometimes I buy some meat alternatives to replace that..
**and if I accedently not knew some e-number addative was actually annimal gelatine or something.. they still will eat it but sugggest an alternative brand that has not that in it for next time "but I understand if thats too expensive for you"
-> that opened room for dialog and mutual understanding.. they actual motivated me to eat much less meat.. be less wastefull when I do buy it.., and buy my dairy and eggs local or organic.

vegans however.. completely different story.. they are a more recent fenomene.. where I have known vegetarians since childhood.. the first vegan I ever met is less than a decade ago.. and most vegans I have met since than have became meat eaters again..
-> this lowers their credibility massively.. where vegetarians truelly have proven it is a lifestyle for the rest of their life.. vegan is more of a few year fab.. that for the most of them will pass.
and than the insane fanatism that these vegans have.. when you eat meat but even when you drink some milk, or have a food product just sitting on a bench in the park or in the compagny cantine.. they aproach you and start acusing you for murdering annimals.. especially if you already say you have seen the movies they suggest long ago. they also force their issue.. by trying to have the compagny restaurant not just add vegan options for them but actually make the entire menu vegan.. despite only 2/100 people being vegan and ofcourse massively attacking and insulting people who than oppose that menu change..
->
having vegans for dinner is also a disaster.. while cooking wihout meat is easy.. cooking without milk butter cream and eggs is very hard.. heck even most meat replacement products sold in supermarked are actually milk or eggbased.. so I will have to completety make things from scratch I never did.. at extreme high budgets that quite frankly never taste or look as good as any of the normal or vegetarian dishes I know.
-> and don;t you dare make products with milk or butter in them for your other guests..,. for than the vegan attending will totally flip.. and if there is even 1 bit in it by accident you overlooked.. they flat out will not eat it. even muslims are not THAT sensitive when it is concerning pork in my experience...
-> and visiting a vegans household to eat there.. well they always say this is soooo great.. but it just tasted bland to me.. it is like non alcoholic wine.. sure there are better non alcoholic wines than others and some of those really great ones can be average.. instead of bad.. but they never compare with a good or great real wine.. same with vegan food vs normal food.
where vegetarian food is just as good as normal food.. just takes sometimes a little more effort to make vegetarian burgers from scratch (as thats better than store bought) than making meat burgers from scratch..
-> and well vegans love to talk about how great it is being vegan.. and if you say well I want to keep things nice.. you be you I be me.. hardly any evading it;) they just LOVE preaching the gospel of veganism;) worse than jehova witnesses in some regards;) THAT pushy does not help the dialog for me.
***and than there is their absolutelism..
my vegetarian friends see every step I take as great.. that I buy organic and eat less meat.. they see as achievements.. less suffering.. great.. but vegans don't want to compromise.. even if I would hold my own chickens and goat and only eat their eggs (and chickens by nature just lay eggs.. that if no rooster is near will be unfertilised, and both chickens and goats are very energy efficient protain converters way more than cows.. and thus much lower taxastion on the enviroment than the massive soybeans they eat vegans would not be satisfied... they don't apreaciate a step in their direction.. they just keep complaining over everything you don't do exactly as they do.
**for me who loves taking care of nature.. that seems very hypocrypte.. that they rather do more harm to earth than eat an egg.
-they also usually are high income people who don't take into consideration that a healthy vegan diet is quite expensive and most people don't have the income to pay for that kind of lifesyle.
-----
as a last straw to reach some dialoge I usually toss in my own thinking about abortions.
***to me an unborn child = human being.. and thus abortion is murder.. and I notice I use a lot of the same arguments vegans do to make my pro-life point.
***in a way vegans seem to extend their definition of equal life to annimals as well.. placing them on the same level as humans (that is not my point.. but ok)..
--> we could bridge here.. with vegans supporting my pro-life point.. for it seems to me a logical point that a human life is worth more than an annimal life.. so an pro-abortion vegan is the biggest hypocrite there is... to me any vegan who is not also anti abortions.. looses all credibility..
---> but if they would support my anti abortion point... I could say well I not agree with you.. but saving human lifes is so important to me.. that in order to get that on the agenda I would be willing to support your vegan point.. even if that may be harmfull to my health, lowering my purchasing power, and more harmfull to the planet
***yet as most vegans are also insanely woke/liberal/progressive I never have found one that would do this mutual understanding in seeing we don't agree but agree that as I feel about unborn life they do about annimals...

-so while I do agree that the bioindustry is deplorable
-I don't see it neccecairy or beneficial to the planet to go vegan
-I do see changes need to be made..
-I however see those changes more into more sustainable farming, and a shift to more eggs and dairy, less meat.. and that more of that dairy is the more durable goat type not cow.
(insects would be fine too.. but I and a lot of people with me find that a bridge to far)
**
leading me to the only conclusion anybody could desire to be a vegan as I know them.. because they really believe annimals have equal rights to a human being, and than humans have no rights to own them in any way.. not as pets, not as farm annimals.. not in any way.
and that is more of a believe.. than a rational argument.

[Dutchgamer1982]

**oh and let me add 1 thing more to the textwall>
-while vegans cannot help it.. it does annoy me that organic products are taken of the shelves and replaced for vegan offerings.. forcing me back to regulair products.
-for I am fine paying a little extra to have oganic goatmilk.. but I will not pay twice or tripple that to have water with soyflour, oatflour, riceflour or almondflour dissolved into it. and likely i am not the only one.. paired with the harm soy does to the planet... this fab does actually harm to the planet by effect. and realisticly you will never convince the mayority of people to buy vegan milk.. nor will the mayority be able to pay those prices.. so be elistist all you want over it.. if you want to do well for annimal wellfare it would be better if the vegan products were not sold and much more organic dairy back on the shelves, for a lot more normies will be enticed to buy those.

[98766545656432]

Samwise の投稿を引用：

crunchyfrog の投稿を引用：

Yup, it's perfectly allowed.

The thing is you need to remember the fundamental thing - it's business.

Now when something is business, even if you have regulators, what's more important? Money and efficeiency or anything else?

So yeah, this is allowed because it gives better yield. YOu should now look up some of the ways they use to kill the cattle.

This is pretty upsetting news to me. I never knew about any of that. When i buy meat products, i dont really ever think that animal died for this, i just buy it. Now, i did google about dairy business and it does indeed seem pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ and cruel. Idk how to feel about dairy products now...

they are not all bad. my brother in law worked at a dairy farm. they treated their cows like royalty.

it is good to know that there are problems, and things that we need to fix. it is also good to know that not every farm is the same and many treat their animals with respect

[Dracoco OwO]

Shillelagh の投稿を引用：

Fun little factoid:
If animals are abused or stressed, the meat quality (and therefore price of that meat) is greatly reduced. Stressing the animals is actively avoided by the industry.

Well on paper it's supposed to be this way but there is hardly any way to tell if an animal was stressed by looking at the meat and i'm pretty sure some place don't respect those norms anyways.

[ʙᴜɴ.ᴇ]

Dutchgamer1982 の投稿を引用：

**oh and let me add 1 thing more to the textwall>
-while vegans cannot help it.. it does annoy me that organic products are taken of the shelves and replaced for vegan offerings.. forcing me back to regulair products.
-for I am fine paying a little extra to have oganic goatmilk.. but I will not pay twice or tripple that to have water with soyflour, oatflour, riceflour or almondflour dissolved into it. and likely i am not the only one.. paired with the harm soy does to the planet... this fab does actually harm to the planet by effect. and realisticly you will never convince the mayority of people to buy vegan milk.. nor will the mayority be able to pay those prices.. so be elistist all you want over it.. if you want to do well for annimal wellfare it would be better if the vegan products were not sold and much more organic dairy back on the shelves, for a lot more normies will be enticed to buy those.

it annoys me everytime you post on a vegan thread.

[Shodan]

Well, I've seen some vegetar(d)ians with purses made of natural crocodile leather or something like that, yet they act morally superior for refusing to eat meat... amazing priorities. Not everyone is like that of course.

Personally, I wouldn't even kill a mosquito, I always just open windows and let that annoying stuff leave or I carry the spiders with long tiny legs outside. That being said, we're not cows, they have specific digestive systems that we don't have because we're not herbivores, period. I don't like the idea that humans and animals eat other living things, but that's just how it works in this world. It's natural. I despise the idiots who kill for sport, they're sick murderers, not hunters.

Sometimes you just have to draw a line.

I hate the idea of killing animals, but that's how nature has always worked, it is what it is, I have to eat whether I like that or not.

I hate how modern games are getting so oversimplified, but sometimes I just have to accept that because some might still be fun regardless. Just because I hate that trend doesn't mean I should completely boycott video games and be bored.

I hate how Apple phones have some annoying limitations, but that doesn't mean I should boycott them because they're still amazing phones and other phones have different flaws.

I could go on all day.

[Dutchgamer1982]

💕 𝓑𝓾𝓷 💕 の投稿を引用：

Dutchgamer1982 の投稿を引用：

**oh and let me add 1 thing more to the textwall>
-while vegans cannot help it.. it does annoy me that organic products are taken of the shelves and replaced for vegan offerings.. forcing me back to regulair products.
-for I am fine paying a little extra to have oganic goatmilk.. but I will not pay twice or tripple that to have water with soyflour, oatflour, riceflour or almondflour dissolved into it. and likely i am not the only one.. paired with the harm soy does to the planet... this fab does actually harm to the planet by effect. and realisticly you will never convince the mayority of people to buy vegan milk.. nor will the mayority be able to pay those prices.. so be elistist all you want over it.. if you want to do well for annimal wellfare it would be better if the vegan products were not sold and much more organic dairy back on the shelves, for a lot more normies will be enticed to buy those.

it annoys me everytime you post on a vegan thread.

I have nothing against you.... but I don't like the behavior vegans showed I met in real life.

-btw I do suspect you were the one that reported me (and caused me a ban) more than once.. and if that is the case.. that would not be nice of you (I personally don't report people on steam even if they say things that are perhaps offensive to me or against the rules and I do think it bad behaviour when people do snitch on other people rather than just ignore or rebuke)
-
like I could report you for like that post for it being a personal attack without anything to the discussion started by OP. but I wont. I do hope you show the same courtasy in future.

[Dutchgamer1982]

unturorum の投稿を引用：

Well, I've seen some vegetar(d)ians with purses made of natural crocodile leather or something like that, yet they act morally superior for refusing to eat meat... amazing priorities. Not everyone is like that of course.

Personally, I wouldn't even kill a mosquito, I always just open windows and let that annoying stuff leave or I carry the spiders with long tiny legs outside. That being said, we're not cows, they have specific digestive systems that we don't have because we're not herbivores, period. I don't like the idea that humans and animals eat other living things, but that's just how it works in this world. It's natural. I despise the idiots who kill for sport, they're sick murderers, not hunters.

Sometimes you just have to draw a line. I hate the idea of killing animals, but that's how nature has always worked, it is what it is. I hate how modern games are getting so oversimplified, but sometimes I just have to accept that because some might still be fun regardless. Just because I dislike that trend doesn't mean I should completely boycott video games and be bored.

and now you talk my talk
-you agree bioindustry is bad as it is
-you recognise our biology
-you condem unneccesairy cruelty
**
you could ofcourse do what I already did : less meat, switch to goatmilk, and any dairy, meat and eggs you do buy/eat spend that little extra for organic/locally sourced not a perfect solution but every step helps.. and if the normies like us all do that it does count to a lot less annimal suffering while still allowing us the lives we like.
->
but you did say you hate annimal killing, a thing I personally have no problem with (I merely make a point about how the annimal lives and HOW it is killed) while going vegan has all kind of issues linked to it our body chemistry do desires annimal protain.. but does not care about the source.. so going vegetarian (only dairy and eggs) might be an option for you..

as for games.. well you could just say.. I just don't play new games.. and instead play the older ones that you deemed better unlike fresh produce.. old games are not suddenly expired.

[Shillelagh]

Dracoco OwO の投稿を引用：

Shillelagh の投稿を引用：

Fun little factoid:
If animals are abused or stressed, the meat quality (and therefore price of that meat) is greatly reduced. Stressing the animals is actively avoided by the industry.

Well on paper it's supposed to be this way but there is hardly any way to tell if an animal was stressed by looking at the meat and i'm pretty sure some place don't respect those norms anyways.

Nah, did meat judging in high school, it's actually surprisingly clear. The meat is very dark from tense muscles if the animal is stressed.

[Χάρης]

Dutchgamer1982 の投稿を引用：

no vegan here.. but I ust wanted to toss in my 5 cents..

I have known people who are vegetarian for many years.. and I am totally fine with them.
-they care for annimal wellbeing.. and most vegetarians I know will eat meat but only if they know the annimal it came from.. like cradle to grave and how it lived so they know it had a life upto their, not some organisations standards, and was killed in their view on what was not cruel not some organisations standards.
**this because lables on a package of meat can be falsefied.. and even organic standards are often still quite cruel (hanging a block of salt on a rope.. giving 1 meter of indoor concreet floor instead of 1.2 meter... have the manure fall through slids instead of metal rosters and have a tiny field of muddy grass of 20m2 connected to a 10000m2 indoor pigstall and that qualifies as highest tear organic 3 star farming.. and they are still cramped in the same vans to be transported for upto 2 hours rides.. to gaschambers to be gassed..
-> and thats the BEST standard mind you..

**when I think organic farming I think 20m2 shed, for perhaps 5-6 pigs, with a large 100m2 field including a nice mudpool, and them being fed peels and remains from the farmers own household.. with added supermarkt trowaways.. and when it is time to butcher one.. it is taken to the shed.. than a sharp blade makes a cut.. and the annimal slowly dies in his owners arms (I have witnessed this method of butchering and it is much less hurtfull to the annimal.. as it is very calm and just dowses off.. sure it means taking 1 person 2 hours just to kill 1 pig.. but lets be decent about it..

**I even heared this sermon from a preacher that said "we lock up the annimals, and be beasts ourself" -> as a critique that christians have gotten from God the task to take care of earth, and sure it does mean we may eat all annimals, it also obligates us to take care of nature, and treat the creations of God propertly... and with many farmers christian..christian political parties often don't like green policies and actual resist limitations on pesticide use, annimal welfare laws etc.. as many christians are also farmers...
**
so being a christian I fully get how people don't support the bio industry as it is today.. I don't either.
I can also see how people seeing that will go vegetarian..
->
for on top of even organic meat not being upto our personal standard.. it is well known that upto 40% of organic labled food may actually NOT be organic.. a lot of cheating with the lables does happen..

but the reason those vegetarians were more influentual to me.. is because they did not judge or were overly preachy.. and they actually had a reasonable point.. if I visit a vegetarians house.. they will not force me to eat vegetarian food.. they will buy and prepare some meat for me if I so desire.. and adapting my meals for them is also very easy.. just leave the meat out is often enough sometimes I buy some meat alternatives to replace that..
**and if I accedently not knew some e-number addative was actually annimal gelatine or something.. they still will eat it but sugggest an alternative brand that has not that in it for next time "but I understand if thats too expensive for you"
-> that opened room for dialog and mutual understanding.. they actual motivated me to eat much less meat.. be less wastefull when I do buy it.., and buy my dairy and eggs local or organic.

vegans however.. completely different story.. they are a more recent fenomene.. where I have known vegetarians since childhood.. the first vegan I ever met is less than a decade ago.. and most vegans I have met since than have became meat eaters again..
-> this lowers their credibility massively.. where vegetarians truelly have proven it is a lifestyle for the rest of their life.. vegan is more of a few year fab.. that for the most of them will pass.
and than the insane fanatism that these vegans have.. when you eat meat but even when you drink some milk, or have a food product just sitting on a bench in the park or in the compagny cantine.. they aproach you and start acusing you for murdering annimals.. especially if you already say you have seen the movies they suggest long ago. they also force their issue.. by trying to have the compagny restaurant not just add vegan options for them but actually make the entire menu vegan.. despite only 2/100 people being vegan and ofcourse massively attacking and insulting people who than oppose that menu change..
->
having vegans for dinner is also a disaster.. while cooking wihout meat is easy.. cooking without milk butter cream and eggs is very hard.. heck even most meat replacement products sold in supermarked are actually milk or eggbased.. so I will have to completety make things from scratch I never did.. at extreme high budgets that quite frankly never taste or look as good as any of the normal or vegetarian dishes I know.
-> and don;t you dare make products with milk or butter in them for your other guests..,. for than the vegan attending will totally flip.. and if there is even 1 bit in it by accident you overlooked.. they flat out will not eat it. even muslims are not THAT sensitive when it is concerning pork in my experience...
-> and visiting a vegans household to eat there.. well they always say this is soooo great.. but it just tasted bland to me.. it is like non alcoholic wine.. sure there are better non alcoholic wines than others and some of those really great ones can be average.. instead of bad.. but they never compare with a good or great real wine.. same with vegan food vs normal food.
where vegetarian food is just as good as normal food.. just takes sometimes a little more effort to make vegetarian burgers from scratch (as thats better than store bought) than making meat burgers from scratch..
-> and well vegans love to talk about how great it is being vegan.. and if you say well I want to keep things nice.. you be you I be me.. hardly any evading it;) they just LOVE preaching the gospel of veganism;) worse than jehova witnesses in some regards;) THAT pushy does not help the dialog for me.
***and than there is their absolutelism..
my vegetarian friends see every step I take as great.. that I buy organic and eat less meat.. they see as achievements.. less suffering.. great.. but vegans don't want to compromise.. even if I would hold my own chickens and goat and only eat their eggs (and chickens by nature just lay eggs.. that if no rooster is near will be unfertilised, and both chickens and goats are very energy efficient protain converters way more than cows.. and thus much lower taxastion on the enviroment than the massive soybeans they eat vegans would not be satisfied... they don't apreaciate a step in their direction.. they just keep complaining over everything you don't do exactly as they do.
**for me who loves taking care of nature.. that seems very hypocrypte.. that they rather do more harm to earth than eat an egg.
-they also usually are high income people who don't take into consideration that a healthy vegan diet is quite expensive and most people don't have the income to pay for that kind of lifesyle.
-----
as a last straw to reach some dialoge I usually toss in my own thinking about abortions.
***to me an unborn child = human being.. and thus abortion is murder.. and I notice I use a lot of the same arguments vegans do to make my pro-life point.
***in a way vegans seem to extend their definition of equal life to annimals as well.. placing them on the same level as humans (that is not my point.. but ok)..
--> we could bridge here.. with vegans supporting my pro-life point.. for it seems to me a logical point that a human life is worth more than an annimal life.. so an pro-abortion vegan is the biggest hypocrite there is... to me any vegan who is not also anti abortions.. looses all credibility..
---> but if they would support my anti abortion point... I could say well I not agree with you.. but saving human lifes is so important to me.. that in order to get that on the agenda I would be willing to support your vegan point.. even if that may be harmfull to my health, lowering my purchasing power, and more harmfull to the planet
***yet as most vegans are also insanely woke/liberal/progressive I never have found one that would do this mutual understanding in seeing we don't agree but agree that as I feel about unborn life they do about annimals...

-so while I do agree that the bioindustry is deplorable
-I don't see it neccecairy or beneficial to the planet to go vegan
-I do see changes need to be made..
-I however see those changes more into more sustainable farming, and a shift to more eggs and dairy, less meat.. and that more of that dairy is the more durable goat type not cow.
(insects would be fine too.. but I and a lot of people with me find that a bridge to far)
**
leading me to the only conclusion anybody could desire to be a vegan as I know them.. because they really believe annimals have equal rights to a human being, and than humans have no rights to own them in any way.. not as pets, not as farm annimals.. not in any way.
and that is more of a believe.. than a rational argument.

Those " vegetarians " you met are not really vegetarians, otherwise they wouldn't eat meat. It doesn't matter where the animal comes from, it is still a corpse. There's no such thing as " humane slaughter " , there is nothing humane about slaughtering an animal. It also doesn't matter if the animal had a lot of space to live or if it was treated nicely before getting killed. Giving them belly rubs before killing them doesn't make it any better either.

Also what you said about vegans approaching people who eat meat, dairy and eggs to accuse them is BS. I think you are talking about some vegan youtubers who walk on random people to talk to them about veganism.

Shifting to more dairy and eggs wouldn't make things any better, in fact the production process for dairy is worse than meat.

[ʟǟֆȶʟɨʋɨռɢքօɛȶ]

A herd of cows when properly managed has regenerative benefits they add to the land they graze. I have some in my "backyard" and all my neighbors do too. You can't say the same thing about monocropping which destroys topsoil. Food forests are a different story but they're rarely utilized commercially. Plants aren't ethically or morally better just because they aren't slaughtered to be harvested. They also pale in comparison in nutrients and nutrient density compared to meat.

[Gus the Crocodile]

unturorum の投稿を引用：

I don't like the idea that humans and animals eat other living things, but that's just how it works in this world. It's natural. I despise the idiots who kill for sport, they're sick murderers, not hunters.

Sometimes you just have to draw a line.

I hate the idea of killing animals, but that's how nature has always worked, it is what it is, I have to eat whether I like that or not.

As human beings though, we’re the ones who get to decide “how it works” when it comes to human behaviour. We aren’t ‘nature’ incarnate, bound to keep doing all the things other creatures have done. We have a choice where we draw our lines.

[Balthasar Gelt]

vegan girls are where its at

[Shodan]

🍓 Strawberry Flavored 🍓 の投稿を引用：

unturorum の投稿を引用：

I don't like the idea that humans and animals eat other living things, but that's just how it works in this world. It's natural. I despise the idiots who kill for sport, they're sick murderers, not hunters.

Sometimes you just have to draw a line.

I hate the idea of killing animals, but that's how nature has always worked, it is what it is, I have to eat whether I like that or not.

The 'it's natural' argument is such a silly argument.
You know what's also natural? Rape and cannibalism, it happens often in nature. Yet you're not okay with that, are you? :OOO
If you want everything to be natural, why don't you take off your clothes, don't use any computers, don't use any modern medicine, don't use any public transports or cars and just go live in a cave?
Also how is breeding animals for meat natural? Sorry, but what you said makes absolutely zero sense.

What makes absolutely zero sense is taking what I said out of context and assuming it applies to everything. I never said everything had to be natural, all I said is that we naturally need to eat food and that food happens to come from animals and plants, always has and it does for everyone.

Regardless of different cultures and technology, what we all have in common since the Stone Age is that we need food. Even today, you technically don't need to have a car if you're really against cars for whatever reasons, but that cannot be compared with food.

Humans can only control themselves so much, you can't just decide "I'll go starve to death", "I'll stop breathing", "I refuse to urinate ever again" or "I refuse to sleep ever again" (and so on) and actually do that, can you? No? And that is what I meant when I said it's natural. Almost all humans have sexual desires which is also natural, also from the beginning of humanity, yet not all of them are rapists, but all of them eat breathe, urinate, sleep and so on because some things you can control (despite natural urges) and others you can't, simple.

So, what other choice do you have? Well, obviously, you can choose not to eat meat the same way I can choose to play games until 5 AM when I have to wake up at 7 AM, but that's not a good idea.