Todas as discussões > Fóruns Steam > Off Topic > Detalhes do tópico
Chocobo & Moogle 4 jul. 2024 às 18:17
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Games made for a "modern audience" are stupid
Let's pander to a specific group of people to make the game better. The fanbase doesn't matter.
Última alteração por Chocobo & Moogle; 4 jul. 2024 às 21:59
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A mostrar 241-255 de 317 comentários
Not Big Surprise 4 ago. 2024 às 17:59 
does anyone, anyone at all, know what "modern audiences" means in this context?
Tito Shivan 4 ago. 2024 às 23:27 
Originalmente postado por Jackie Daytona:
So, the game industry that no longer appeals to my taste... shouldn't? That's your honest opinion? lol

Want to make money? Appeal to the primary demographic. It's really that simple.

The industry is money driven. They're going to try to appeal the largest demographic that can provide them the most money.

You sometimes are in that primary demographic, you sometimes aren't.

We all end up like old Abe Simpson in life: "I used to be with it, but they changed what 'it' was. Now what I'm with isn't 'it' anymore and what's 'it' seems weird and scary... AND IT'LL HAPPEN TO YOU TOO"

Originalmente postado por Jackie Daytona:
I'm not crying about it. I'm just not buying games that don't care about me. That's all.
Then your wallet will talk. if they really want that money and miss you buying games they'll make products trying to appeal to you.
Sek-Raktaa 5 ago. 2024 às 0:26 
Originalmente postado por Not Big Surprise:
does anyone, anyone at all, know what "modern audiences" means in this context?

"modern audiences" refers to people that

-don't mind if the player character is black or otherwise non-white

-don't mind if the player character is female

-don't mind if the player is homosexual

-don't mind if the player character doesn't look like a hyper sexualized super model

-don't mind if the same thing applies to NPC

In my personal experience, the overwhelming majority of people complaining about "modern audiences" are people that are upset about having to play as a black guy, like the recent drama around Yasuke in Assassin's Creed, as well as people upset that female characters aren't sexualized to a degree that makes them play the game one handed while they busy their other hand with... Other things and finally people that are upset because a gay guy might show up.

That's my personal experience and I've yet to experience something else.

I hope that helps you.
Última alteração por Sek-Raktaa; 5 ago. 2024 às 0:27
5 ago. 2024 às 1:33 
Originalmente postado por Jackie Daytona:
Originalmente postado por Tito Shivan:
I'm not the one having an issue with a whole industry no longer appealing my specific tastes.
So, the game industry that no longer appeals to my taste... shouldn't? That's your honest opinion? lol

Want to make money? Appeal to the primary demographic. It's really that simple.
Problem is, you and what you want aren't the primary demographic any longer.

Most gamers couldn't care less if the protagonist is a woman, gay, etc.

The popularity of Perfect Dark and Tomb Raider back then support that, and the popularity of games like BG3 now still do currently support it.
Jackie Daytona 5 ago. 2024 às 2:08 
Originalmente postado por Leonardo Da Pinchi:
Originalmente postado por Jackie Daytona:
So, the game industry that no longer appeals to my taste... shouldn't? That's your honest opinion? lol

Want to make money? Appeal to the primary demographic. It's really that simple.
Problem is, you and what you want aren't the primary demographic any longer.
Say it as much as you want. Any gaming company that wants money should appeal towards men. Or enjoy throwing your money down a hole.
Originalmente postado por Leonardo Da Pinchi:
Most gamers couldn't care less if the protagonist is a woman, gay, etc.
That's not a problem. The problem is designing the ENTIRE GAME around people that don't fit the demographic. That's what we see out of western AAA.

Every character is REQUIRED to be diverse. Everyone is gay, non-white, or female. (Otherwise the character is treated like trash.) It's gotten cliche. It used to be cool to have a gay character. Or a strong woman. Now? I just roll my eyes. It's been overdone to death.
Originalmente postado por Leonardo Da Pinchi:
The popularity of Perfect Dark and Tomb Raider back then support that, and the popularity of games like BG3 now still do currently support it.
lol. That isn't why those games sold well. Story choices and lack of day-one DLC (BG3) is what did that.

Let me spell it out for you.

What people want: Fun.

What people don't want: Lectures about race, gender and sexuality.

NO ONE wants to be told how to think. Regardless.
Última alteração por Jackie Daytona; 5 ago. 2024 às 2:10
Sek-Raktaa 5 ago. 2024 às 2:17 
Originalmente postado por Jackie Daytona:
That's what we see out of western AAA.

Every character is REQUIRED to be diverse. Everyone is gay, non-white, or female. (Otherwise the character is treated like trash.)

I disagree. That is not the impression that I get from the games that I play.
DoomsDay 5 ago. 2024 às 2:24 
Originalmente postado por Sauron:
Let's pander to a specific group of people to make the game better. The fanbase doesn't matter.
my thoughts on modern audience,
maybe its all propaganda in media, language and society managed to brainwash these people into thinking they are modern, and modern audience.
now lets target these people that identify themselves as modern audience to take them to the next level.
media target what these people identify themselves with, and tell them to behave like certain things.

what's wrong with targeting "modern audience "?not much wrong.



its nice to introduce new fun in games, people need something they can focus on, without breaking themselves and other things.
Última alteração por DoomsDay; 5 ago. 2024 às 8:21
Xeon 5 ago. 2024 às 3:20 
Originalmente postado por Sek-Raktaa:
"modern audiences" refers to people that

-don't mind if the player character is black or otherwise non-white

-don't mind if the player character is female

-don't mind if the player is homosexual

-don't mind if the player character doesn't look like a hyper sexualized super model

-don't mind if the same thing applies to NPC

This is the majority of gamers. Always has been.
I remember Shadow Man releasing in a time with no DEI and no gamer ever said a single word.
No one ever cared having to play female characters. Guys usually prefer those. Tomb Raider anyone?
And yeah we never minded if a 'player' is homosexual. Did you ever play a final fantasy? I saw my first trans person there at the age of 11 or something lel and it took like 20 years before the first gamer said anything against trans people... you should ask yourself how this is possible.
And yeah obviously we couldn't mind hyper sexualized super models since the graphics looked like ass. I don't even understand this point, you are talking to the people who played tomb raider 1... we are still enjoying pixelart games. we are running right now away from hyper realistic tripple A games to indie pixelart games in droves and you make this observation? you sound like a tourist, not a gamer to me.

Originalmente postado por Sek-Raktaa:
In my personal experience, the overwhelming majority of people complaining about "modern audiences" are people that are upset about having to play as a black guy, like the recent drama around Yasuke in Assassin's Creed, as well as people upset that female characters aren't sexualized to a degree that makes them play the game one handed while they busy their other hand with... Other things and finally people that are upset because a gay guy might show up.

That's my personal experience and I've yet to experience something else.

I hope that helps you.

Well, you should experience some gamers to experience something else. sitting in your home, coming up with the wildest dreams will not solve this situation. it will only worsen yours. right now you are fighting non-existent ghosts. I'm a gamer. I know many, many other gamers. They are all fed up with DEI. All points you use to describe the modern audience fit to them. and your examination of them is completely wrong. your whole post reads like you never interacted with a gamer in your whole life. it's quite pathetic.
Última alteração por Xeon; 5 ago. 2024 às 3:22
Tito Shivan 5 ago. 2024 às 3:49 
Originalmente postado por Jackie Daytona:
Say it as much as you want. Any gaming company that wants money should appeal towards me
This kind of sums this thread up perfectly.

Originalmente postado por Xeon:
This is the majority of gamers. Always has been.
I remember Shadow Man releasing in a time with no DEI and no gamer ever said a single word.
No one ever cared having to play female characters. Guys usually prefer those. Tomb Raider anyone?
And yeah we never minded if a 'player' is homosexual. Did you ever play a final fantasy? I saw my first trans person there at the age of 11 or something lel and it took like 20 years before the first gamer said anything against trans people... you should ask yourself how this is possible.
And yeah obviously we couldn't mind hyper sexualized super models since the graphics looked like ass. I don't even understand this point, you are talking to the people who played tomb raider
The problem right now is an army of 'content creators' looking to leech into whatever is making the rounds, cherrypick what they can fit into their ragebait narrative to earn some easy ad revenue from people who don't know better than take these people as a gospel or to sow bigotry into gullible people's heads.

When you've consumed hours upon hours of people pointing at stuff and shouting 'WOLF!!!' you eventually start seeing wolves everywhere too... Doesn't mean they really are there, but you've been conditioned to look for it.
Sek-Raktaa 5 ago. 2024 às 4:18 
Originalmente postado por Xeon:
right now you are fighting non-existent ghosts.

If I were wrong and if I were fighting non-existent ghosts, as you claim, we wouldn't be having a million YouTube videos and Steam forum threads about Yasuke being a protagonist in Assassin's Creed Shadows, we wouldn't be seeing a million YouTube videos and steam forum threads on how female characters in video games aren't hot anymore and we wouldn't be having a million YouTube videos and steam forum threads on how Miquella is a gay femboy listing after Radahn.

But we do.

Also

I've been gaming since the 90s. The tomb raider nude patch was a popular topic during recess for a while.

Lara's boobs being angular didn't bother us in the 90s because we didn't know better. Tech wasn't as advanced. Didn't stop us horny teenagers though.

So don't give me this "we didn't Lust after Lara Croft because the graphics sucked" crap.

Either you're a liar or you're some young punk who wasn't around during the 90s.

One of the two.
Última alteração por Sek-Raktaa; 5 ago. 2024 às 4:18
Xeon 5 ago. 2024 às 4:21 
Originalmente postado por Tito Shivan:
The problem right now is an army of 'content creators' looking to leech into whatever is making the rounds, cherrypick what they can fit into their ragebait narrative to earn some easy ad revenue from people who don't know better than take these people as a gospel or to sow bigotry into gullible people's heads.

When you've consumed hours upon hours of people pointing at stuff and shouting 'WOLF!!!' you eventually start seeing wolves everywhere too... Doesn't mean they really are there, but you've been conditioned to look for it.

this narrative is the most comical of them all. do you even understand, what you are saying here? let me make this clear: some basement dwelling streamers with zero funds and just their free time on their hands have more influence can a international, multi-billion dollar company.

and those people, who don't know better. you do understand those are a fraction of a fraction of the actual players?

just recreate the normie experience. chose inkognito mode on your browser. go to youtube. search for: 'star wars outlaws'. first 8/10 videos are positive.

it's funny, because you described basically yourself and your faction. you shout 'WOLF!!' because of some basement dwelling losers with zero reach compared to the companies they go against.
this is also why they aren't important at all. take the biggest streamers and youtubers on this planet. let's assume they all go against a good game and start bad mouthing it. This will not lead to people in general attacking the game. the opposite will happen. sure, some will believe their favorite streamer but much, much more will try the game out themselves and they will have an opposite opinion. slowly but surely the majority opinion would flip due to the quality of the game. and those streamers would start getting flag. people would start attacking them calling them shills because they bad mouth a good product for no reason. but this doesn't happen. because whenever this happens, those streamers and youtubers have a point. they aren't really influencing the discourse. what they really do is going after the low hanging fruits. most are gamers themselves and can tell before hand quite well the reaction. so they just go for what the people will hear. you are mistaking cause and reaction. and you are projecting yourself onto your 'enemies'. in reality they couldn't care less about you, but for whatever reason you keep picking fights with them. why?
you can make all those streamer opinions you don't like go away but the peoples reaction will not change. you can not come into a hobby, deconstruct the ♥♥♥♥ out of it and expect the fans to enjoy the process.
Xeon 5 ago. 2024 às 4:33 
Originalmente postado por Sek-Raktaa:
Either you're a liar or you're some young punk who wasn't around during the 90s.

One of the two.

Neither of those. And you are showing your dishonesty with such an argumentation.

I was around in the 90s. Just because games looked like ass, doesn't mean we all assumed boobs in reality are just as ugly. Ofc people knew better. The comparison when it comes to 'sex sells' isn't games vs games and nothing else. sex-appeal is a category on it's own and if you go in this direction your competition isn't just the medium you are producing in but literally anything with sexy women in it.
I was a teen in the 90s. I was horny as ♥♥♥♥ just like any other teen. The nude patch for tomb raider was just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gimmick. It didn't do anything between my legs, nor do I know anyone who fapped to this ♥♥♥♥. if you did, I'm really sorry. I already knew how boobs looked like. Hell, at that time I could see them growing real time at school... that was an experience for itself :D and yeah I liked looking at those. but even back than calling the triangles of lara croft actual boobs and getting aroused by them never crossed my mind, even with the nude patch changing the color of her model into something slightly resembling skin color with those ugly ass nipples buhahaha and let's not forget, the nude patch we talk about, the very first for tomb raider, that wasn't a full nude patch. it was a titties patch. she had still her whole pants on :D well, wouldn't make the uncanny valley of hell more appealing if she didn't

your argument is quite pathetic.
99% of all people played tomb raider for the gameplay. and you know what's really funny? the female audience of tomb raider is really, really high compared to other games. always was. another fact that doesn't fit with your coomer narrative.

Originalmente postado por Sek-Raktaa:
If I were wrong and if I were fighting non-existent ghosts, as you claim, we wouldn't be having a million YouTube videos and Steam forum threads about Yasuke being a protagonist in Assassin's Creed Shadows, we wouldn't be seeing a million YouTube videos and steam forum threads on how female characters in video games aren't hot anymore and we wouldn't be having a million YouTube videos and steam forum threads on how Miquella is a gay femboy listing after Radahn.
you are proving my point. what you describe here is a reaction. you reaction to a reaction. not the actual cause. this is literally a ghost. you will fight against those people your whole life not understanding their problem at all, while making up ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about them, so you can keep fighting against ghosts.
Última alteração por Xeon; 5 ago. 2024 às 4:38
Tito Shivan 5 ago. 2024 às 4:42 
Originalmente postado por Xeon:
this narrative is the most comical of them all. do you even understand, what you are saying here? let me make this clear: some basement dwelling streamers with zero funds and just their free time on their hands have more influence can a international, multi-billion dollar company.
Who said anything about basement dwellers with zero funds?

Originalmente postado por Xeon:
it's funny, because you described basically yourself and your faction. you shout 'WOLF!!'
I'm not shouting anything.

Originalmente postado por Xeon:
let's assume they all go against a good game and start bad mouthing it. This will not lead to people in general attacking the game. the opposite will happen. sure, some will believe their favorite streamer but much, much more will try the game out themselves and they will have an opposite opinion.
And that's the disconnect in demographics I keep referring about. On the real world most people don't give a damn about the things that fill pages on forums and hours on youtube.

People come and play games, and have fun with them. And publishers try to please that people. But the small minority that fill hours on youtube and pages on forums keep pretending they're the majority. That they're the main demographic.

Originalmente postado por Xeon:
slowly but surely the majority opinion would flip due to the quality of the game. and those streamers would start getting flag. people would start attacking them calling them shills because they bad mouth a good product for no reason. but this doesn't happen.
Because the people who play games just play them. They're largely not getting into forum wars or mess with youtubers. They're two separate segments.

Originalmente postado por Xeon:
so they just go for what the people will hear. you are mistaking cause and reaction. .
Ragebaiters know quite well their the reaction their content draw. That's why they do things the way they do. It's all marketing. If you think there's genuinity on Youtube or Twitch you're in for a surprise.

Originalmente postado por Xeon:
you can make all those streamer opinions you don't like go away but the peoples reaction will not change. you can not come into a hobby, deconstruct the ♥♥♥♥ out of it and expect the fans to enjoy the process.
Spoiler. It's not "your" hobby. What you call 'deconstruction' is just evolution.

Originalmente postado por Sek-Raktaa:
If I were wrong and if I were fighting non-existent ghosts, as you claim, we wouldn't be having a million YouTube videos and Steam forum threads about Yasuke being a protagonist in Assassin's Creed Shadows.
There's a whole industry behind getting people's jimmies rustled because negative content brings the most interactions in social media. Of course millions of people will try to get some of that pie.
atomicgirl 5 ago. 2024 às 5:25 
Unsubscribing from this thread. Too many wackos repeating the exact same talking points that were posted within the first day a little over a month ago. Too many wackos who think that arguing with random people who have no pull within the gaming industry is going to change anything. How many times and ways does a person have to keep saying that they hate games that have minorities, women and gay characters in them. You say it once, okay, but to argue with people for weeks on end like this, I'm sorry, but you should see a therapist.
Última alteração por atomicgirl; 5 ago. 2024 às 7:57
AdahnGorion 5 ago. 2024 às 7:17 
Originalmente postado por Jackie Daytona:
Originalmente postado por Tito Shivan:
I'm not the one having an issue with a whole industry no longer appealing my specific tastes.
So, the game industry that no longer appeals to my taste... shouldn't? That's your honest opinion? lol

Want to make money? Appeal to the primary demographic. It's really that simple.

I'm not crying about it. I'm just not buying games that don't care about me. That's all.

Originalmente postado por AdahnGorion:

Woman make up the majority of gamers.
But I reckom you only think high end PC gaming is actual gaming? or what?
Even in that specturm, its more or less genre based, obvious RPGs, Simulations and Builders will be more popular with the female crowd ratio wise, compared to shooters and strategy.

Most gamers (no matter their sex) don´t care about representation however, they just want to play a quality game (good gameplay, good story and so forth, depending on genre)
I agree, except the part about women being the majority of gamers. It's only true if you include the widest possible definition of gamer.

The people that actually buy and play games? Mostly men. You can make games for women. That's fine. But don't expect a huge ROI.

Appeal to men? Maybe you make money.

Appeal to women? Turn off over 50% of potential customers. Maybe you break even. If you are lucky.

Studies showcase that the largest revenue is from females.
This is ofc because they use lots of live service games as well and games that tend to have more dlc focus if we do talk PC centric games.
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Todas as discussões > Fóruns Steam > Off Topic > Detalhes do tópico
Postado a: 4 jul. 2024 às 18:17
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