Games made for a "modern audience" are stupid

[Chocobo & Moogle]

Let's pander to a specific group of people to make the game better. The fanbase doesn't matter.

[Crazy Tiger]

Jackie Daytona eredeti hozzászólása:

Crazy Tiger eredeti hozzászólása:

"Objectively"? All you've done is talk about how you see certain statistics and utilise your own made up definitions of what is a "gamer". That's anything but "objectively".

All you're doing is sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "NANA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU BUT MY NUMBERS ARE THE BESTEST!!!!".

"Objectively". LMAO.

I am refuting the statistics which include people that play games 15 minutes a day. Or old people that play bingo/cards on the weekends. That isn't a gamer. By any reasonable measure.

You want to make the term "gamer" so wide as it includes everyone. In which case, 50% of gamers are women. Because (when you include everyone) 50% of anything is women. That's why the statistics are flawed.

Again, look at Twitch or YouTube. Look at the tournaments. It's not 50/50 men/women. It's 99/1 men/women.

A gamer spends 20 hours per week playing games. A normal person spends a couple hours per week playing games. Drawing a line isn't a "narrow definition".

You just confirmed everything I said. Your personal definition of "gamer" is not universal, you cherrypick "sources", you make up statistics and everything you said is not even remotely close to "objectively".

Reality is different. Sure, that's hard for you to understand, but that's usually with narrow-minded people like yourself.

[WhiteKnight77]

Jackie Daytona eredeti hozzászólása:

Crazy Tiger eredeti hozzászólása:

"Objectively"? All you've done is talk about how you see certain statistics and utilise your own made up definitions of what is a "gamer". That's anything but "objectively".

All you're doing is sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "NANA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU BUT MY NUMBERS ARE THE BESTEST!!!!".

"Objectively". LMAO. :lunar2019crylaughingpig:

I am refuting the statistics which include people that play games 15 minutes a day. Or old people that play bingo/cards on the weekends. That isn't a gamer. By any reasonable measure.

You want to make the term "gamer" so wide as it includes everyone. In which case, 50% of gamers are women. Because (when you include everyone) 50% of anything is women. That's why the statistics are flawed.

Again, look at Twitch or YouTube. Look at the tournaments. It's not 50/50 men/women. It's 99/1 men/women.

A gamer spends 20 hours per week playing games. A normal person spends a couple hours per week playing games. Drawing a line isn't a "narrow definition".

Your definition of a gamer and how much time he or she spends playing games is a non-sequitur. Gamers not only play games, but read forums, game magazines, help run fan sites, and helps others play the games they own when they run into issues, even if they only play games for 10 hours a week or possibly less. I know I have played less as of late due to the long hours I have been working on the current project, which has me writing reports on a Saturday for 2 to 6 hours.

2024 Essential Facts About the U.S. Video Game Industry[www.theesa.com] has some very interesting statistics.

[Jackie Daytona]

OMG. You never stop.

Tito Shivan eredeti hozzászólása:

Jackie Daytona eredeti hozzászólása:

Mainstream audience is not LGBTQ and girlpower.

Mainstream audiences include those groups.

No. Demographics exist. More people of certain groups are into certain things. This is reality.

Are there gay gamers? Yes. Are there female gamers? Absolutely. Are they the majority? No.

60-80% of gamers are white dudes, black dudes, and asian dudes. Don't want to appeal to them? Feel free to throw your money down a hole.

Tito Shivan eredeti hozzászólása:

Jackie Daytona eredeti hozzászólása:

False statistics.

Stomp your feet as strong as you want. Data is stubborn.

I have repeatedly explained the flaws in the data. You are being extremely rude to ignore my explanations.

Tito Shivan eredeti hozzászólása:

Jackie Daytona eredeti hozzászólása:

Huff all the copium you want.

I'm not the one complaining of the games being made. I don't need to cope with anyhting.

You think not appealing to the primary demographic makes sense. That's copium.

Tito Shivan eredeti hozzászólása:

Jackie Daytona eredeti hozzászólása:

A gamer spends 20 hours per week playing games. A normal person spends a couple hours per week playing games. Drawing a line isn't a "narrow definition".

Gaming now belongs to the normies, that's what happens when things become mainstream. You'll have to cope with it.

Ah, I see the problem here. You actually believe that gaming is "mainstream". It's not. It's always been niche.

You've been fooled. Seek out a local D&D group. (1st or 2nd edition.) Go ahead. I'll wait. Take a picture of the players. I dare you.

It will be (around) at least 50% white dudes. Guaranteed.

I have never seen anything other than fat white dudes at an Axis & Allies tournament. Or MTG.

Go to any gaming convention. It's 80% fat white dudes, 10% hot chicks in cosplay, and 10% other.

[Jackie Daytona]

Crazy Tiger eredeti hozzászólása:

You just confirmed everything I said. Your personal definition of "gamer" is not universal, you cherrypick "sources", you make up statistics and everything you said is not even remotely close to "objectively".

Reality is different. Sure, that's hard for you to understand, but that's usually with narrow-minded people like yourself.

I've seen some bad takes from you before, but this takes the cake.

I think 20 hours per week is a reasonable definition of a gamer. If that isn't a gamer? What is? What's your definition? I notice you (and your friends harassing me) leave that out of your replies.

[Jackie Daytona]

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Your definition of a gamer and how much time he or she spends playing games is a non-sequitur. Gamers not only play games, but read forums, game magazines, help run fan sites, and helps others play the games they own when they run into issues, even if they only play games for 10 hours a week or possibly less. I know I have played less as of late due to the long hours I have been working on the current project, which has me writing reports on a Saturday for 2 to 6 hours.

2024 Essential Facts About the U.S. Video Game Industry[www.theesa.com] has some very interesting statistics.

The problem with those stats is what I've been saying this entire time: THEY INCLUDE PEOPLE THAT BARELY PLAY GAMES.

A gamer is not a person that occasionally plays games. It's a person that is passionate about games. That plays them every day. Not because they have time to kill. But because it's something they like.

You want to consider everyone that's ever played a game a gamer? Well, that's everyone. A nonsensical point of view.

[WhiteKnight77]

Jackie Daytona eredeti hozzászólása:

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Your definition of a gamer and how much time he or she spends playing games is a non-sequitur. Gamers not only play games, but read forums, game magazines, help run fan sites, and helps others play the games they own when they run into issues, even if they only play games for 10 hours a week or possibly less. I know I have played less as of late due to the long hours I have been working on the current project, which has me writing reports on a Saturday for 2 to 6 hours.

2024 Essential Facts About the U.S. Video Game Industry[www.theesa.com] has some very interesting statistics.

The problem with those stats is what I've been saying this entire time: THEY INCLUDE PEOPLE THAT BARELY PLAY GAMES.

A gamer is not a person that occasionally plays games. It's a person that is passionate about games. That plays them every day. Not because they have time to kill. But because it's something they like.

You want to consider everyone that's ever played a game a gamer? Well, that's everyone. A nonsensical point of view.

Earlier you gave an order of what people play games on, you are off base there. Sure, they asked if people played games for more than 1 hour per week, but as I stated earlier, or rather asked earlier, what do you call someone who spends their time helping to run a game fan site, or help others with getting their games working or other work even if they play less than your arbitrary 20 hours? I have been playing video games longer than you have, by a long shot, though I am lucky to be even able to play any games due to my work hours.

Face it, your definitions of a gamer are just yours and no one else's. I could say that you are not a gamer as you have never interviewed anyone associated with a game studio or even been a moderator on a fan site even though you think that one is not a gamer unless they play X number of hours.

[Adversary]

Phirestar eredeti hozzászólása:

Who is this “modern audience” people keep talking about, and why do they seem to love bland, formulaic, 4/10 products so much?

It's something that they are wanting to create. For when all that there is to consume is slop, the audience will only know slop.

It's a long-term plan that they wish to enact through such initiatives like DEI, BRIDGE, SHRM, and the like. They are alright with forsaking short-term financial profit if it means they achieve long-term ideological gain.

Does still help to hit them in the pocketbooks though.

[the grinch wetbandit]

Tito Shivan eredeti hozzászólása:

ghost eredeti hozzászólása:

Fromsoft dared to go against this and it worked out great.

I'm having quite some fun in the irony of souls players complaining how the new DLC from the Elden Ring is... too difficult.
Guess they have to 'git gud'

Jackie Daytona eredeti hozzászólása:

This "modern audience" doesn't exist. Going all the way back to the 1970's, men have been the majority of gamers.

Statistics prove you wrong, no matter how much you don't want to listen to them. You're behaving like Mr Skinner's meme from the simpsons "Am I out of touch??"

Paratech2008 eredeti hozzászólása:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/742420/Saints_Row/

Yeah this is a great example of progress.

Who purchased it exactly?

That game was doomed to fail since before a line of script was written.

He isnt wrong, nonethelss. The vast majority of gamers are male, thats a real fact. Most females just dont play games. And yes, the news saints row was a badly designed game, but the cringe wokeness was the cherry on top of the turd.

[the grinch wetbandit]

Adversary eredeti hozzászólása:

Phirestar eredeti hozzászólása:

Who is this “modern audience” people keep talking about, and why do they seem to love bland, formulaic, 4/10 products so much?

It's something that they are wanting to create. For when all that there is to consume is slop, the audience will only know slop.

It's a long-term plan that they wish to enact through such initiatives like DEI, BRIDGE, SHRM, and the like. They are alright with forsaking short-term financial profit if it means they achieve long-term ideological gain.

Does still help to hit them in the pocketbooks though.

you forgot ESG. And these slop failing isnt an issue, theres plenty of woke money to go around. Blackrock, vanguard, etc have trillions available and ready to invest, as long as the DEI rating has the minimum requirement.

[kingjames488]

anything made for a "modern audience" is bad.

"modern audiences" enjoy things like watching people stack cups, or beating super mario in under 5 minutes, or make minute rice in 58 second.

[the grinch wetbandit]

atomicgirl eredeti hozzászólása:

Haruspex eredeti hozzászólása:

The problem is when they use the existence of this antisocial background noise as a way to dismiss actual critique, genuine concerns and argument. They don't want to have to defend any of their positions or honestly address any actual concerns, so they just point to the weird, edgy homeschool kid with absent parents and unrestricted Internet access sending death threats instead.

I'm going to try to explain myself one more time, because all you did was snip me out of context to double down on the same talking points.

Again: a decade ago, male gamers online were represented by the Angry Joes, Yogscasts, MinnesotaBurns and other guys who actually played games, went to gaming conventions and were hardware geeks. They were funny, witty, hilarious, seemed like cool guys you'd want to have a beer with.

Today, they're represented by ragebaiters, Gamer Gaters, Red Pillers, Incels and culture war hustlers on YouTube.

Talking about "dismissing actual critique, genuine concerns and arguments" is blindly refusing to accept the reality of the situation. No company's going to listen to the "actual critique, genuine concerns and arguments" of sane gamers if they have to worry about a sizable majority of the gaming community coordinating review bomb attacks, sending death threats, going on poison pen campaigns to sink a release before it's even released or rally everyone into pirating games. No one's going to listen to "actual critique, genuine concerns and arguments" when rage baiters and culture war hustlers recycle those exact "actual critique, genuine concerns and arguments" to pretend as if they're coming from a legitimate place.

Point is, you guys have an image problem, and because of it, you're being increasingly left out as a demographic. You're a business liability, both to companies and the people who work for them. Arguing with me and others isn't going to fix anything. Neither is creating the delusion that the problem isn't the gaming community; it's that the companies have to just focus on legit complainers when those legit complainers are outnumbered 10:1 on the internet by lunatic fringers.

gaslighting detected. There is plenty of well thoughout criticism that isnt very histrionic, and has points. Generalizing all youtubers/internet personas/ to a generic label of "ragebaiters, Gamer Gaters, Red Pillers, Incels and culture war hustlers" is disengenous and borderline dishonest, hildog clinton "basket of deplorables" style. I understand its mostly as some of the noisiest of them have different politics than yours, much like you mentioned the likes of AJ (leftist) yoscast (leftist) and etc as well to do examples as the beginning of your rant paragraph.

[the grinch wetbandit]

Jackie Daytona eredeti hozzászólása:

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Your definition of a gamer and how much time he or she spends playing games is a non-sequitur. Gamers not only play games, but read forums, game magazines, help run fan sites, and helps others play the games they own when they run into issues, even if they only play games for 10 hours a week or possibly less. I know I have played less as of late due to the long hours I have been working on the current project, which has me writing reports on a Saturday for 2 to 6 hours.

2024 Essential Facts About the U.S. Video Game Industry[www.theesa.com] has some very interesting statistics.

The problem with those stats is what I've been saying this entire time: THEY INCLUDE PEOPLE THAT BARELY PLAY GAMES.

A gamer is not a person that occasionally plays games. It's a person that is passionate about games. That plays them every day. Not because they have time to kill. But because it's something they like.

You want to consider everyone that's ever played a game a gamer? Well, that's everyone. A nonsensical point of view.

i agree with you. Its like pro sports. I knw nothing about pro sports. I couldnt tell you the Giants from the 49enrs. I arent a pro sport expert/fan/etc its all a mystery to myself. And thats all fine. I dont expect pro sports to cater to myself, to try to "simplify itself" so i can better understand it, so i can label myself a "pro sport fan/expert".

[AustrAlien2010]

You should just not watch those gaming videos. Then you won't recieve an opinion, and then there won't be a problem.

[Tito Shivan]

AustrAlien2010 eredeti hozzászólása:

You should just not watch those gaming videos.

Stop watching videos from people who's business model is getting you angry at stuff sounds like a solid advice.
It's a godsend I never liked Youtube other than for watching movie trailers and I never had the patience to watch someone stream. My blood pressure thanks it.

Jackie Daytona eredeti hozzászólása:

Tito Shivan eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm not the one complaining of the games being made. I don't need to cope with anyhting.

You think not appealing to the primary demographic makes sense. That's copium.

You made three replies in a row. Slow down, buddy.

[Jackie Daytona]

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Jackie Daytona eredeti hozzászólása:

The problem with those stats is what I've been saying this entire time: THEY INCLUDE PEOPLE THAT BARELY PLAY GAMES.

A gamer is not a person that occasionally plays games. It's a person that is passionate about games. That plays them every day. Not because they have time to kill. But because it's something they like.

You want to consider everyone that's ever played a game a gamer? Well, that's everyone. A nonsensical point of view.

Earlier you gave an order of what people play games on, you are off base there. Sure, they asked if people played games for more than 1 hour per week, but as I stated earlier, or rather asked earlier,

You have given me an excuse to use a term I rarely use: "word salad". What in the world are you trying to say? I can only guess.

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

what do you call someone who spends their time helping to run a game fan site,

A person that runs a fan site? That's a moderator.

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

or help others with getting their games working

A person that helps get games running for others? A nice I.T. person.

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

or other work even if they play less than your arbitrary 20 hours?

That isn't "arbitrary". The people that gather stats on gamers sell in-depth information to companies. Which then act upon that info. Specifically shaping how games are made and marketed.

To avoid repeating myself, let me put this another way... Does cooking every day make you a chef? I don't think so. It's just what everyone has to do. Even if it's just microwaving a burrito. That doesn't make you a culinary artist.

By the same measure, you aren't a gamer just because you played a game once.

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

I have been playing video games longer than you have, by a long shot, though I am lucky to be even able to play any games due to my work hours.

You have more than enough time to troll these forums. So, you can't possibly be as busy as you claim. And this is your second or third account? I've lost track.