Desktop Linux Rant

[𝔈𝔩𝔊𝔯𝔦𝔫𝔤𝔬]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6YDQobJbLc

It's actually more useful for the average user. For people who only do less than a handful of task on their system OR have hours and hours in a day to install and config system files, I guess I see why Linux is better to you.

BUT if you're a power user who does more than just game and also users your PC for automation and productivity, Linux falls apart and starts to become a massive waste of time. It's not that any of it is hard, it's just annoying and trouble shooting every other thing on your system gets old fast.

I'm not working or creating, I'm fixing things and pulling commands from the internet.

I'm in the process of building a Steam machine, so I can 100% agree with some of the Pro's Linux distros have in security, performance and ease of access. It's just not quite there for a 'One Size Fits All' OS.

There is a lot Linux does not do and there is a lot Linux does not do very well still.... I'd like to see improvements to the back end and I'm pretty sure that's what many of us are waiting for.

[ulia]

Escrito originalmente por Ulfrinn:

but instead of complaining about it, I looked for and learned how to use alternatives, and found I can get just as much done with OnShape as I could with something like Fushion 360. But that's because I put in some effort to look for a solution instead of waiting for solutions to come to me.

Lucky for you that your alternative software is sufficient for your use case, but this isn't universally true and your inflammatory phrasing is just petty. For a lot of professional work you can not substitute tools like a big chunk of the Adobe suite and specialized in-house tooling, and virtualization is far from smooth sailing, not to mention the setup and configuration overhead.

Linux has it's place for CLI and low level system access "without the fuss", though nowadays far less so thanks to Linux subsystems for Windows and apps like VSCode addressing and resolving the "locked down OS" roadblocks we used to have to deal with for dev.

[Morkonan]

Escrito originalmente por Ulfrinn:

This is why it's important for people to understand that if they want certain apps on Linux, they may have to show the people who make those apps that there's a market for porting that software to Linux, by using Linux. It's not going to happen if everyone just stayed on Windows. There'd be no reason for them to make the software. And then we could all be stuck with Windows 12 with built in ads.

Linux is not a "build it and they will come" OS.

The number of users that can look beyond the minimal, basic, UI that they see right now in Windows is minimal. The number of users that only know "their applications" and how to use them and what they do or enjoy with them is... too numerous to count.

This is what Micro$oft counts on when they exercise their 200+ page "Privacy™ Agreement™."

The developers have to have incentive enough to build the place where the users will come because they no longer wish to stay in the other place... It has to be "the same" as far as the majority of them are concerned or its "difference" will likely make them stay where they are. All things being equal, that is.

The short post on what to do:

Windows™ needs to be exposed for what it is. In short - Users need to know, right in front of their face holes that they see stuff with, what is being done to them. They can not know, because they can't look, what is going on with the things outside of their favorite applications that they can't see...

You want a migration to Linux? It's not enough that it exists. You have to show the majority of users, who don't look under hoods, that where they are right now is A Bad Place ™. You have to provide motivation for them to leave it.

Or, throw hundreds of billions of monies at the problem.... Linux's choice, of course, but somehow I don't think all the distros have deep pockets... or any pockets.

[Ulfrinn]

Escrito originalmente por ulia:

Escrito originalmente por Ulfrinn:

but instead of complaining about it, I looked for and learned how to use alternatives, and found I can get just as much done with OnShape as I could with something like Fushion 360. But that's because I put in some effort to look for a solution instead of waiting for solutions to come to me.

Lucky for you that your alternative software is sufficient for your use case, but this isn't universally true and your inflammatory phrasing is just petty. For a lot of professional work you can not substitute tools like a big chunk of the Adobe suite and specialized in-house tooling, and virtualization is far from smooth sailing, not to mention the setup and configuration overhead.

Linux has it's place for CLI and low level system access "without the fuss", though nowadays far less so thanks to Linux subsystems for Windows and apps like VSCode addressing and resolving the "locked down OS" roadblocks we used to have to deal with for dev.

It wasn't when I started and I learned how to use quite a few alternatives. I put the effort in because I made the choice not to be tied to windows anymore and if that meant learning a different brand of software here or there, then so be it. The key difference is I didn't sit on windows waiting for someone else to port all the stuff I was already using. I'm not the one being inflammatory here. In dropping a hard truth. Linux may require some effort and if that is bothersome to someone, just stay on windows.

[AD]

Escrito originalmente por Ulfrinn:

Escrito originalmente por AD:

One of the issues Linux has is that many of the issues Linux has falls in the "chicken and egg" problem space. The OS itself is great, but without the right apps people stay on Windows, which means the apps don't get ported to Linux, which means people stay on Windows because they need Windows apps, which leads to... and so on and on and on.

It's why projects like Wine and Proton, which far from perfect, are important for Linux adoption as a whole. For me it's no issues, I very much prefer Linux and I'm not held back by the apps I use or games I play. For someone else, the situation might be different, and that's ok. Linux doesn't have to be the OS for everyone. I actually prefer it if there is competition, and as much as I prefer Linux over Windows, Windows is competition I don't want to go away.

This is why it's important for people to understand that if they want certain apps on Linux, they may have to show the people who make those apps that there's a market for porting that software to Linux, by using Linux. It's not going to happen if everyone just stayed on Windows. There'd be no reason for them to make the software. And then we could all be stuck with Windows 12 with built in ads.

Yeah, that's what I'm doing, though some apps are tied to Windows. Tried setting up a Windows 11 VM under KVM recently to get access to some Windows app (a Microsoft one, so very Windows specific), I think I know how to do it, but... Windows 11 is just really frustrating to work with if you don't want to do things like Microsoft does, like not having an MS account. Why don't I want an MS account? Because I don't want to go and download the drivers needed for it to get a good resolution, so my plan was to use RDP to access the app. The easiest way is to just have a local account because with an MS account you need to fiddle some settings and I'm lazy.

Eventually I figured out that you can just select that it's "for work or school" during the installation and then not join it to a domain. That actually works and would have saved me a lot of headache.

Currently I have decided I don't need the app for now because Windows is annoying. Also I admit I wanted to complain about setting up Windows and this was just an excuse.

[ナルゴ]

Escrito originalmente por 𝖠̶̶̅𝖨̶̶̅𝖬̶̶̅:

BUT if you're a power user who does more than just game and also users your PC for automation and productivity, Linux falls apart and starts to become a massive waste of time. It's not that any of it is hard, it's just annoying and trouble shooting every other thing on your system gets old fast.

Learn to code. Linux is literally the pinnacle of 'power user' if you know how to use it.

[SanekiBeko]

Tell software devs to add Linux support then we'll switch. Gimp sucks.

[AD]

Escrito originalmente por SanekiBeko:

Tell software devs to add Linux support then we'll switch. Gimp sucks.

Problem is they won't if people won't switch. Commercial products needs ROI, and Linux marketshare is rather low. Some still does it, though, so it certainly can be done (and it's awesome when they do), it's just not something you can count on until the marketshare grows.

[ulia]

Escrito originalmente por Ulfrinn:

It wasn't when I started and I learned how to use quite a few alternatives. I put the effort in because I made the choice not to be tied to windows anymore and if that meant learning a different brand of software here or there, then so be it. The key difference is I didn't sit on windows waiting for someone else to port all the stuff I was already using. I'm not the one being inflammatory here. In dropping a hard truth. Linux may require some effort and if that is bothersome to someone, just stay on windows.

Crazy how you've developed an ego over finding a broad scope general purpose alternative through a duckduckgo search. You kicked a pebble, therefor creative professionals who need specialized tooling are lazy when they can't find the means to push a boulder up a hill.

[Hobbit XIII]

Escrito originalmente por libadwaita (she/her):

Escrito originalmente por Hobbit XIII:

It really depends on the size of your games.

70 gigs split between two OS is not good if you want to play games that can eat up space.

I am always pushing for people to learn and get into Linux just for choice it empowers them to have.
70 gigs, I'd say stay on windows for now until you did some research for your own needs and I WOULD recommend asking on Linux Steam Forums general questions that would be my first port of call. Those guys are brains on the subject.

If you're going to go down that route, most virtual machine software (realistically you'll be using QEMU/KVM for this) supports shared folders between the guest and host, so put your Steam library in there. No need to create a huge virtual drive.

Great give details on how to use it with his current system's hardware.
My knowledge is lacking.

[Ulfrinn]

Escrito originalmente por AD:

Escrito originalmente por SanekiBeko:

Tell software devs to add Linux support then we'll switch. Gimp sucks.

Problem is they won't if people won't switch. Commercial products needs ROI, and Linux marketshare is rather low. Some still does it, though, so it certainly can be done (and it's awesome when they do), it's just not something you can count on until the marketshare grows.

I did notice with Steam's recent hardware survey, the percentage of gaming market share held by Windows continues to go down and Linux has taken even more of it than since last time. It's growing.

[Ulfrinn]

Escrito originalmente por ulia:

Escrito originalmente por Ulfrinn:

It wasn't when I started and I learned how to use quite a few alternatives. I put the effort in because I made the choice not to be tied to windows anymore and if that meant learning a different brand of software here or there, then so be it. The key difference is I didn't sit on windows waiting for someone else to port all the stuff I was already using. I'm not the one being inflammatory here. In dropping a hard truth. Linux may require some effort and if that is bothersome to someone, just stay on windows.

Crazy how you've developed an ego over finding a broad scope general purpose alternative through a duckduckgo search. You kicked a pebble, therefor creative professionals who need specialized tooling are lazy when they can't find the means to push a boulder up a hill.

CAD software is quite specialized. And there is an even greater variety of software on Linux for music and videos. But you seem to consistently point out what a great creative professional you are and why that means only this one specific piece of software works and nothing else is good enough for great creative professionals... Are you sure the ego here is mine?

[Iron Knights]

I think you got it all backwards, sure Linux lacks the hardware performing drivers, but short of AutoCad, nobody in the professional world misses it.
It is exactly the Gamer world that is most demanding & least compatible that Linux fails at the hardest and bars me from chucking MSW forever.

[Iron Knights]

As for Steam, steam is a sinking ship who denies you ownership of your own game.
WAKE UP SHEEPLE !!! Buy at GoG.

[libadwaita (she/her)]

Escrito originalmente por Iron Knights:

I think you got it all backwards, sure Linux lacks the hardware performing drivers, but short of AutoCad, nobody in the professional world misses it.
It is exactly the Gamer world that is most demanding & least compatible that Linux fails at the hardest and bars me from chucking MSW forever.

It's not as far behind in gaming as most would like to believe, as long as your game doesn't have a crappy anticheat (which is on the developers of the game to ensure) than it should work fine. To be fair, there are a decent number of games that fall under that category. Often due to developer's malice.

Fortnite is an example of a game that would be fully compatible if it wasn't for the fact that Epic Games has taken a malicious stance against GNU/Linux and has decided to artificially restrict GNU/Linux users from playing Fortnite. It's almost surprising, since Fortnite is supported on so many different platforms and the anticheat it uses (EAC) can easily be configured to work with GNU/Linux. Epic Games themselves have said that they wouldn't support GNU/Linux when people were inquiring about playing Fortnite on the Steam Deck.

Escrito originalmente por Iron Knights:

As for Steam, steam is a sinking ship who denies you ownership of your own game.
WAKE UP SHEEPLE !!! Buy at GoG.

Agreed, but this is perhaps one of the best case scenarios for GNU/Linux game compatibility. The vast majority of games on GoG tend to be single player, or mutli player without an invasive anticheat. With that in mind, game incompatibilities on GNU/Linux will be the exception rather than the rule, and you will most likely share whatever issue you are having with a Windows user.

[Ulfrinn]

Escrito originalmente por Iron Knights:

I think you got it all backwards, sure Linux lacks the hardware performing drivers, but short of AutoCad, nobody in the professional world misses it.
It is exactly the Gamer world that is most demanding & least compatible that Linux fails at the hardest and bars me from chucking MSW forever.

Gaming is the most compatible. It's other software that is more problematic. And drivers tend to perform better on Linux which often tend to make up for most performance loss using DXVK and proton to the point many games run even better than on windows because of how much better optimized Linux drivers and kernels are.