Why can't people on Steam forums debate in a civil and reasonable manner?

[Iggy Wolf]

It seems like an exercise in frustration to ask people to keep their arguments and comments civil, and avoid insulting their opposition and/or fellow Steam posters without getting personal and making personal attacks. Like, I know this ain't exactly a debate site or a classroom setting, but surely part of making an argument, is that you make it in a logical and rational manner. If you resort to personal attacks, you technically void whatever argument you're making, because you're no longer sticking to the topic at hand.

In fact, half the threads on here end up getting locked, and posters banned, because people can't be bothered to be civil and rational. I can only imagine how such people would make these arguments in real life. I mean, what are you gonna do? Punch the other guy because he proved you wrong, or because your argument sucks? If anything, you'd just proving their point.

You couldn't defend your argument well, so you resorted to ad hominem attacks because that's all you have left. It's the "last refuge of the scoundrel". Maybe I expect too much on Steam, but people here are able to actually think before they write their response, so it's not like the situation requires you to respond on the spot with a reasonable retort. Disagree with people, sure, but no need to make it personal.

[Iggy Wolf]

Messaggio originale di MinionJoe:

So "civility" and "reason" are requirements for a person to learn something while speaking with others? And in an uncivil and unreasonable environment, a person can learn nothing?

No, but it is usually more conducive to it. Most of the time, the only thing people learn in an uncivil and unreasonable environment, is how to be MORE uncivil and hostile to others. After all, why should you continue to respect someone, who clearly has no respect for you?

It's why even those of us who try to be nice get banned at one point or another, because everyone has their limits, and trying to hold back from insulting another poster after they insulted you many times is an exercise in frustration. I mean, you're not really listening to the other person at that point anyway. You're just looking for a way to "get back" at them. It's the equivalent of a schoolyard fight. The initial point of the post was lost. All that matters is that people are now making personal attacks. Cue locked thread.

[MinionJoe]

Messaggio originale di Iggy Wolf:

Messaggio originale di MinionJoe:

So "civility" and "reason" are requirements for a person to learn something while speaking with others? And in an uncivil and unreasonable environment, a person can learn nothing?

No, but it is usually more conducive to it. Most of the time, the only thing people learn in an uncivil and unreasonable environment, is how to be MORE uncivil and hostile to others. After all, why should you continue to respect someone, who clearly has no respect for you?

It's why even those of us who try to be nice get banned at one point or another, because everyone has their limits, and trying to hold back from insulting another poster after they insulted you many times is an exercise in frustration. I mean, you're not really listening to the other person at that point anyway. You're just looking for a way to "get back" at them. It's the equivalent of a schoolyard fight. The initial point of the post was lost. All that matters is that people are now making personal attacks. Cue locked thread.

Some people subscribe to the school of "respect is earned, not given." In a formal debate, yes, a modicum of respect is given between the participants. But Steam Off-Topic is not conducive to formal debating.

I understand what you're saying, but threads get locked even when the participants aren't throwing personal insults. This forum is just not conducive to debates.

[Ni-Neith]

Messaggio originale di Iggy Wolf:

Well, if we're talking about being entertaining, then I think the problems stems from what people consider "humorous" or "funny". Too often, I see people think that their insults, trolling, and/or mockery and condescension of other Steam users is "funny", when it in fact, it's bullying and harassment. It's the cheapest form of comedy, and one that isn't even funny at that, except maybe to the person making the jokes. Like I said, I doubt they'd act this way in real life, without getting a fist in the face for being a clown. But I guess that's what the "jester rewards" are for.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. But I almost never had to deal with toxic users.
---
Maybe you touched on too sensitive topics in your topics or comments?

[Midnight Sky ✨🌙✨]

Messaggio originale di Iggy Wolf:

Messaggio originale di MinionJoe:

Because a formal, civilized, reasonable debate on these forums isn't going to actually accomplish anything.

I mean, I'm not sure a debate is meant to "accomplish something". We're just talking about people making arguments because it gets people to think. Socrates and Platos' debate wasn't about one or the other proving a point, but rather it being a "learning experience".

People can double-check themselves and consider whether what they said, or what someone else said, might have a point or at least make them contemplate on it. As the saying goes "I'll take what you said into consideration". I'm not sure that "winning" is the goal. In fact, the problem stems from people trying to "win", no matter the means. A debate isn't about stroking one's ego. It's about allowing yourself to be humbled.

My humbling already happened some years ago. Sorry you missed it.

[Midnight Sky ✨🌙✨]

Messaggio originale di Caldari Ghost:

nice wall of text LOL

I like reading iggy's posts.

[Voroff]

Messaggio originale di Chaosolous:

What would I get for it?

Usually, not even a point award that is digital but is shiny.
And still, here we are, yet here we are, still by the water like crocs waiting for the "innocent and juicy comment to eradicate with the utmost prejudice when it comes near our pond".

/insert evil laught


It's a shame that even some of goodfaith posters are not able to user proper argumentative format. Much logic kerfuffle muck between causes and consequences, whitewhashing of his "side", fallacies of the slippery slope kind; even the goodwilling arent "over" building fallacious strawmen - some are even worse and cannot structure their verbiage in paragraphs or even phrases with ponctuation.
We are all humans, we are all faillable, we are all biaised by education and culture, and tribalistic by nature. Be aware of that and suspend yer judgment long enought to have a complete picture of a situation. And by the Gods, learn to snip when quoting and spacing your logorrhea with the usage of effing paragraphs when needed.

[Ni-Neith]

Messaggio originale di DarkCrystalMethod:

Make a subject-based steam group for any important topic and then you can set the rules.

Thank you.
Maybe I'll take advantage of this opportunity.

[temps]

Messaggio originale di Iggy Wolf:

It seems like an exercise in frustration to ask people to keep their arguments and comments civil, and avoid insulting their opposition and/or fellow Steam posters without getting personal and making personal attacks. Like, I know this ain't exactly a debate site or a classroom setting, but surely part of making an argument, is that you make it in a logical and rational manner. If you resort to personal attacks, you technically void whatever argument you're making, because you're no longer sticking to the topic at hand.

In fact, half the threads on here end up getting locked, and posters banned, because people can't be bothered to be civil and rational. I can only imagine how such people would make these arguments in real life. I mean, what are you gonna do? Punch the other guy because he proved you wrong, or because your argument sucks? If anything, you'd just proving their point.

You couldn't defend your argument well, so you resorted to ad hominem attacks because that's all you have left. It's the "last refuge of the scoundrel". Maybe I expect too much on Steam, but people here are able to actually think before they write their response, so it's not like the situation requires you to respond on the spot with a reasonable retort. Disagree with people, sure, but no need to make it personal.

I largely agree that people resort to insults when they can't come up with a better argument. As for why they feel motivated to do that... being proven wrong in a discussion might irritate them. Or maybe they view the policy proposals themselves being presented as offensive.

[permanent name]

because these forums are a direct link to god's brain, and god isn't a sane person.

[zero is good]

Cause its steam, I assume most here posting are gamers and waiting for friends, downloads any numbers of reason, At least, I assume most are gamers, gotta be careful with those private profiles with no game time.

[Midnight Sky ✨🌙✨]

I think the worst part (for me, at least) is that I would love to have a constructive conversation about some topics, but with how ot is, it's a complete waste of time to even try.

I miss when I thought joker was a confused lonely guy, actually tried arguing with him and managed to at least concede on some things, though he probably just pretended to do so. It was the most interesting ot had been for me all year.

[permanent name]

Messaggio originale di Midnight Carnival Snack:

I think the worst part (for me, at least) is that I would love to have a constructive conversation about some topics, but with how ot is, it's a complete waste of time to even try.

I miss when I thought joker was a confused lonely guy, actually tried arguing with him and managed to at least concede on some things, though he probably just pretended to do so. It was the most interesting ot had been for me all year.

if you sit around being ironic for long enough you'll wrap back around to your real opinion eventually.

god help you if you don't realize that happening.

[76561199586159139]

1) because it's online and with strangers
2) because they are kids
3) because they are woke and don't even believe in reason or understand what it is
4) because people in general are not very intelligent nor rational

[replika]

Messaggio originale di Iggy Wolf:

It seems like an exercise in frustration to ask people to keep their arguments and comments civil, and avoid insulting their opposition and/or fellow Steam posters without getting personal and making personal attacks. Like, I know this ain't exactly a debate site or a classroom setting, but surely part of making an argument, is that you make it in a logical and rational manner. If you resort to personal attacks, you technically void whatever argument you're making, because you're no longer sticking to the topic at hand.

In fact, half the threads on here end up getting locked, and posters banned, because people can't be bothered to be civil and rational. I can only imagine how such people would make these arguments in real life. I mean, what are you gonna do? Punch the other guy because he proved you wrong, or because your argument sucks? If anything, you'd just proving their point.

You couldn't defend your argument well, so you resorted to ad hominem attacks because that's all you have left. It's the "last refuge of the scoundrel". Maybe I expect too much on Steam, but people here are able to actually think before they write their response, so it's not like the situation requires you to respond on the spot with a reasonable retort. Disagree with people, sure, but no need to make it personal.

because politics is what immature people debate about.

[Arkham99]

Messaggio originale di hitekh8:

because politics is what immature people debate about

Politics is a fascinating subject... it's also becoming more prominent in University Education... it's healthy that so many Americans are so passionate about Politics... then they can make informed voting choices...:-)