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Apteryx Mar 29, 2024 @ 5:05am
Is it true that God killed more people than Satan in the Bible?
I remember once seeing a bar graph of people God killed vs. people Satan killed and Satan killed like 20 people while God killed like 2.6 million people. Is that true?
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Showing 91-105 of 126 comments
Stingray_tm Mar 30, 2024 @ 4:01am 
Originally posted by Crusader (Banned5x):
The point is free will. Satan chooses to act outside of God's will.

Whenever it's free will being argued, unbelievers say: "So God allows all this evil?? How terrible!"

Whenever it's not free will being argued, unbelievers say: "So God just created everyone to do all this evil?? How terrible!"

Most people are absolutely determined to reject God by whatever malleable logic suits them at the time.

No, the problem here is, that the God depicted here can not be all powerful. alll knowing and benevolent at the same time, because all those things can not be true at the same time. They are contradictory. They are logically imcompatible.

If people say the things you mentioned, they point out that condradiction.
Last edited by Stingray_tm; Mar 30, 2024 @ 4:04am
Out Of Bubblegum Mar 30, 2024 @ 4:12am 
Memnoch is the good guy :)
apathy Mar 30, 2024 @ 7:28am 
Originally posted by Crusader (Banned5x):
No matter what I say, you'll come up with your own version of it to justify rejecting God.
For every argument you make from here on, I can pull up a Bible quote that directly contradicts you. Its a no-brainer. This exchange will go back and forth without end all because your moral compass is faulty, you believe "might is right", and you refuse to accept this.

How does a man justify purposefully stepping on an ant to his critics? How can a god justify purposefully killing a mortal to his critics? Oh that's right, he silences his critics. Can't be wrong if no one is around to question or call out your obvious douchebaggery.


He has promised to give us glorified forms and an eternity of reigning and ruling with Him.
Ruling over what? Ruling over who? I do not want to be a ruler. All rulers are tyrants. Judge a king by the poorest meanest beggar. Judge a god by the most wretched soul in Hell.

F**k glory.


So what fictional, evil character are you speaking of? It seems the only issue here is your understanding of who the Almighty is.
Your apologetics concept of god, and the concept of god in the Bible, are two different things. Maybe someday you'll figure that out and fall into deep depression like I did. A misery that only hard work, enlightenment, and humanism, can hope to pull you out of? Maybe not. Your life, your choice.
swillfly Mar 30, 2024 @ 7:29am 
moot point ; both = same entity
Originally posted by Stingray_tm:
Originally posted by Crusader (Banned5x):
The point is free will. Satan chooses to act outside of God's will.

Whenever it's free will being argued, unbelievers say: "So God allows all this evil?? How terrible!"

Whenever it's not free will being argued, unbelievers say: "So God just created everyone to do all this evil?? How terrible!"

Most people are absolutely determined to reject God by whatever malleable logic suits them at the time.

No, the problem here is, that the God depicted here can not be all powerful. alll knowing and benevolent at the same time, because all those things can not be true at the same time. They are contradictory. They are logically imcompatible.

If people say the things you mentioned, they point out that condradiction.


There's nothing contradictory or illogical about being all-powerful, all-knowing, and benevolent. Maybe if you can present a case why you believe they are I can at least see your perspective.


Originally posted by apathy:
Originally posted by Crusader (Banned5x):
No matter what I say, you'll come up with your own version of it to justify rejecting God.
For every argument you make from here on, I can pull up a Bible quote that directly contradicts you. Its a no-brainer. This exchange will go back and forth without end all because your moral compass is faulty, you believe "might is right", and you refuse to accept this.

How does a man justify purposefully stepping on an ant to his critics? How can a god justify purposefully killing a mortal to his critics? Oh that's right, he silences his critics. Can't be wrong if no one is around to question or call out your obvious douchebaggery.


He has promised to give us glorified forms and an eternity of reigning and ruling with Him.
Ruling over what? Ruling over who? I do not want to be a ruler. All rulers are tyrants. Judge a king by the poorest meanest beggar. Judge a god by the most wretched soul in Hell.

F**k glory.


So what fictional, evil character are you speaking of? It seems the only issue here is your understanding of who the Almighty is.
Your apologetics concept of god, and the concept of god in the Bible, are two different things. Maybe someday you'll figure that out and fall into deep depression like I did. A misery that only hard work, enlightenment, and humanism, can hope to pull you out of? Maybe not. Your life, your choice.

Truth makes right, not might. And I doubt you could. You don't understand scripture so you'd just misconstrue and misquote it in an irrelevant way. Your particular variety of God-hating is actually quite common and pedestrian overall. It seems you can't accept the idea of the Biblical God because worshiping and obeying Him would mean setting your own ego and desires aside, which is too much for you to do. So you come up with reasons why you shouldn't, to ease your conscience. Maybe you've had negative experience with people associated with Christianity, and that contributes as well.

I've already been where you are, and that's what got me here. Misunderstanding God, then rejecting Him out of anger is what started my journey, and opened my eyes to our spiritual reality. We could argue back and forth, but I'm not interested in that. The Lord did say few would make it, and I've made my peace with that. No use trying to make a liar out of Him and convince every single human on earth; it'll never work. Here is a relevant quote though:


John 8: 42-27

"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."
Who is GOD?

What is this Bible you speak of?

Sounds Powerful, Sounds Important?

I'm not quite sure, I just don't know,
this Bible you speak of, does it have any proof behind it?

Sounds like a lot of smoke & mirrors to me,
like there is a lot of maybe's involved with it.
Last edited by WraithTargundaMajarie; Mar 30, 2024 @ 9:56am
Out Of Bubblegum Mar 30, 2024 @ 9:57am 
Originally posted by WraithTargundaMajarie:
Who is GOD?

Chuck was. But Jack took over now.
Hobbit XIII Mar 30, 2024 @ 10:00am 
Originally posted by WraithTargundaMajarie:
Who is GOD?

What is this Bible you speak of?

Sounds Powerful, Sounds Important?

I'm not quite sure, I just don't know,
this Bible you speak of, does it have any proof behind it?

Sounds like a lot of smoke & mirrors to me,
like there is a lot of maybe's involved with it.

Depends which one you mean.

The Bible can be anything from a sales ledger to a book about religious texts.

Tactitus for one and higher bank balances for another or both come to think of it.

People record things as they perceive them, look at how much bs Trump says and people still celebrate him.
Sir Seanicus, Esq. Mar 30, 2024 @ 10:02am 
Christ is king.
Stingray_tm Mar 30, 2024 @ 11:12am 
Originally posted by Crusader (Banned5x):
There's nothing contradictory or illogical about being all-powerful, all-knowing, and benevolent. Maybe if you can present a case why you believe they are I can at least see your perspective.

If God is all powerful and all knowing, then he created "sinners" with full knowledge, that they will sin and it is also Gods will that they sin, because he already knew they would sin. (Again, he is all powerful and he could simply prevent people from sinning, if he wanted to). So he sends them to hell for doing exactly what God already knew would happen and seemingly wanted to happen. If he did not want to send this person to hell, he just would not send him to hell or would have created him in a way so he would not sin.
So God can not be good in that scenario, since he tortures people for eternity for doing exactly what he designed them to do.
If you are arguing, that people have free will, then God is not all powerfuil, because people could then do something against Gods will.
And if God wants to test people and find out if somebody sins or not, then he doesn't know and can't be all knowing, even if he is benevolent.

God can not be all three things at the same time. You can say, that he is benevolent and all knowing (but has limited power and can't influence how people act) or he is benevolent and all powerful (but does not know what his decisions finally will lead to, so he has to run the scneario to find out) or he is omnipotent and omniscienct but a sadistic POS, because he willingly created a situation, where people suffer.

While I don't believe in any of these, I would at least accept people believing in a benevolent god, that has either limited power or limited knowledge, but then we are no longer talking about the god as presented in the Bible or described by most Christian denominations. The God as presented in the Bible (at least the Old Testament) is a vindicative, vain and jelious monster. And even though God kind of made a babyface turn in the New Testament, it still does not fix the aforementioned problem with God not possible being omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent if we take a look at the world he supposedly created and the rules he established.
Last edited by Stingray_tm; Mar 30, 2024 @ 11:22am
Originally posted by Stingray_tm:
If God is all powerful and all knowing, then he created "sinners" with full knowledge, that they will sin and it is also Gods will that they sin, because he already knew they would sin. (Again, he is all powerful and he could simply prevent people from sinning, if he wanted to). So he sends them to hell for doing exactly what God already knew would happen and seemingly wanted to happen. If he did not want to send this person to hell, he just would not send him to hell or would have created him in a way so he would not sin.
So God can not be good in that scenario, since he tortures people for eternity for doing exactly what he designed them to do.

God already created people in a way that they would not sin, and put them in paradise. But since He wanted real, free living beings and not robots, the ability to choose to be able to sin had to be there. And humanity took that choice. What other way is there to allow free, living beings to choose if the option to choose wrong is not given? Only making right available to us wouldn't actually be giving us a choice. So arguing this scenario being somehow rigged is nonsense to me.

Originally posted by Stingray_tm:
If you are arguing, that people have free will, then God is not all powerfuil, because people could then do something against Gods will.
And if God wants to test people and find out if somebody sins or not, then he doesn't know and can't be all knowing, even if he is benevolent.

You seem to be confusing all-powerful with all-controlling. I don't see how being capable of doing anything, even giving people free will makes one no longer all-powerful. God has His own will, but that doesn't mean He overrides ours.

God tests people to let them be proven, not because He doesn't know what they'll do. You can't give an A until someone completes the exam, even if you know they're intelligent and have studied. Sometimes the tests are there to teach you the lesson, not for God to find out anything. Such as when Jesus told Peter that before the next day dawned, Peter would deny Him three times, even as Peter was insisting he'd die for Him.

Originally posted by Stingray_tm:
God can not be all three things at the same time. You can say, that he is benevolent and all knowing (but has limited power and can't influence how people act) or he is benevolent and all powerful (but does not know what his decisions finally will lead to, so he has to run the scneario to find out) or he is omnipotent and omniscienct but a sadistic POS, because he willingly created a situation, where people suffer.

While I don't believe in any of these, I would at least accept people believing in a benevolent god, that has either limited power or limited knowledge, but then we are no longer talking about the god as presented in the Bible or described by most Christian denominations. The God as presented in the Bible (at least the Old Testament) is a vindicative, vain and jelious monster. And even though God kind of made a babyface turn in the New Testament, it still does not fix the aforementioned problem with God not possible being omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent if we take a look at the world he supposedly created and the rules he established.

God is benevolent, all-knowing, and can influence how people act but doesn't unless they ask Him to. He gave us everything we need to be saved and avoid the punishment meant for Satan and those who choose to follow Satan, from the scriptures to our very own conscience. I don't see how that makes Him sadistic. People choose wrong, that's where all our suffering stems from. But that's our fault.

The God I read about in the Old Testament is righteous, just, and holy. Only when people fell into sin that leads to violence, lies, and oppression did He take action to keep those ways from spreading; like removing a cancer that is growing. Our current day would be much worse than it already is had those degenerate and wicked populations been allowed to continue. People don't realize that. They always want to focus on the punishment for disobedience, not the disobedience and what would've resulted from it.
Bernard The Gurnard Mar 30, 2024 @ 12:03pm 
Who's the guy with the fish?
Stingray_tm Mar 30, 2024 @ 12:11pm 
Originally posted by Crusader (Banned5x):
God already created people in a way that they would not sin, and put them in paradise. But since He wanted real, free living beings and not robots, the ability to choose to be able to sin had to be there. And humanity took that choice. What other way is there to allow free, living beings to choose if the option to choose wrong is not given? Only making right available to us wouldn't actually be giving us a choice. So arguing this scenario being somehow rigged is nonsense to me.
Giving people free choice means, that God is not all-knowing, because there is no free choice if God already knows what people will do the moment before he created them.

Originally posted by Crusader (Banned5x):
You seem to be confusing all-powerful with all-controlling. I don't see how being capable of doing anything, even giving people free will makes one no longer all-powerful. God has His own will, but that doesn't mean He overrides ours.
If God knows, that people will sin but he doesn't prevent them from sinning, he is not benevolent. He could save them from sinning, if he wanted to but he doesn't.
Why would a benevolent god every allow his creation to do something that harms them? It is like arguing, that a parent should let his children play with a loaded gun, because even though the parent knows, that the child will harm itself, he doesn't want to impede with free will. That is a terrible parent that would be put in jail!

Originally posted by Crusader (Banned5x):
God tests people to let them be proven, not because He doesn't know what they'll do. You can't give an A until someone completes the exam, even if you know they're intelligent and have studied. Sometimes the tests are there to teach you the lesson, not for God to find out anything. Such as when Jesus told Peter that before the next day dawned, Peter would deny Him three times, even as Peter was insisting he'd die for Him.
According to Christian doctirne God knows the past the present and the future. He is all knowing. His knowledge knows no limits. He does not need to test people if he already knows the future.

Originally posted by Crusader (Banned5x):
God is benevolent, all-knowing, and can influence how people act but doesn't unless they ask Him to.
Why on earth and heaven and hell would we need to ask god to not torture us for all eternity? If he was really good, he would not let us suffer.
Again, it's like saying that you let a child jump into a raging river and unless the child desperately begs you to save it and worship you, you will let it die. And in this case you even created the river. This is monstrous!

To put it short: Free will is impossible in a scenario, where God is all powerful and all knowing. He created the universe and everything that happens here. Past, present and future. Everything is pretermined, because God knows about the future.
And how exactly does God teach children a lesson, that die of cancer at age 2? And if he is all poweful, why not just creating people with the knowledge he wants to "teach" them by torturing them? He is God. He could just have created me with me believing in him, if he wanted to. Why does he need to create a perverse spectacle with billions of people suffering, instead of just creating them the way he wants them to be in the first place? He could do it, if he wanted. He is God after all.

Also it is a bit daft to claim, that God gave us a way to save us from the rules and the punishment, he created himself. (By the way, he sacrificed himself to himself, to save us from the punishment he created for violating the rules he also created). This sounds like a Mafia boss. This deity is a monster.
Last edited by Stingray_tm; Mar 30, 2024 @ 12:25pm
Bernard The Gurnard Mar 30, 2024 @ 12:17pm 
Does this geezer know next weeks lottery number?
vkobe Mar 30, 2024 @ 12:19pm 
Originally posted by Crusader (Banned5x):
Originally posted by Stingray_tm:

No, the problem here is, that the God depicted here can not be all powerful. alll knowing and benevolent at the same time, because all those things can not be true at the same time. They are contradictory. They are logically imcompatible.

If people say the things you mentioned, they point out that condradiction.


There's nothing contradictory or illogical about being all-powerful, all-knowing, and benevolent. Maybe if you can present a case why you believe they are I can at least see your perspective.


Originally posted by apathy:
For every argument you make from here on, I can pull up a Bible quote that directly contradicts you. Its a no-brainer. This exchange will go back and forth without end all because your moral compass is faulty, you believe "might is right", and you refuse to accept this.

How does a man justify purposefully stepping on an ant to his critics? How can a god justify purposefully killing a mortal to his critics? Oh that's right, he silences his critics. Can't be wrong if no one is around to question or call out your obvious douchebaggery.


Ruling over what? Ruling over who? I do not want to be a ruler. All rulers are tyrants. Judge a king by the poorest meanest beggar. Judge a god by the most wretched soul in Hell.

F**k glory.



Your apologetics concept of god, and the concept of god in the Bible, are two different things. Maybe someday you'll figure that out and fall into deep depression like I did. A misery that only hard work, enlightenment, and humanism, can hope to pull you out of? Maybe not. Your life, your choice.

Truth makes right, not might. And I doubt you could. You don't understand scripture so you'd just misconstrue and misquote it in an irrelevant way. Your particular variety of God-hating is actually quite common and pedestrian overall. It seems you can't accept the idea of the Biblical God because worshiping and obeying Him would mean setting your own ego and desires aside, which is too much for you to do. So you come up with reasons why you shouldn't, to ease your conscience. Maybe you've had negative experience with people associated with Christianity, and that contributes as well.

I've already been where you are, and that's what got me here. Misunderstanding God, then rejecting Him out of anger is what started my journey, and opened my eyes to our spiritual reality. We could argue back and forth, but I'm not interested in that. The Lord did say few would make it, and I've made my peace with that. No use trying to make a liar out of Him and convince every single human on earth; it'll never work. Here is a relevant quote though:


John 8: 42-27

"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."
sorry dude but bible was wrote by people who thought earth was flat and sun turn around the earth

it is why i prefer lovercraft mythology over the bible he integrate multiverse concept, time travel, reality warping, dimension pocket, moving to another universe and infinity

the original bible doesnt integrate than universe may be atom or photon for superior being or advanced civ size of atom or photon or a pocket universe size or atom or photon, original bible never integrate a god able to manipulate space time like Yog-Sothoth

so in bible it is only limited to 4 universe, mortal realm, hell, heaven and purgatory

in lovercraft mytho he integrate infinity of universe
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Date Posted: Mar 29, 2024 @ 5:05am
Posts: 126