(Paper Mario N64) Has any player EVER defeated the 'Invincible' Tubba Blubba WITHOUT engaging his heart first as the story goes? And without cheat codes too. Serious replies only!

[Heatblizzard]

In Paper Mario you engage him the first time and then you have to go to a windmill and find his heart which requires Lady Bow to fight then Tubba Blubba is actually quite weak once his heart is reunited to him.
The question as stated can you defeat him with maxed out character status and the right ranks/badges equpped while he is in his 'invincible' stage or is he truly unbeatable till you do the story correct? If so what was your success story?

Serious replies only!!!

[permanent name]

yes he just goes "ouch ill be back" and the other charactesr go "we should find his heart I guess."

then it skips the fight after you found it.

there's a fairly easy infinite hp/regen combo you can do, and you just whittle him down with basic attacks. easily outhealed, barely used any sp, and I never use items so there were plenty around for the one hard boss.

there's several gimmick fights in super mario rpg where you only deal 1hp to a boo-type enemy, so it didn't seem that unusual. a few skills do 1hp multiple times and sped things up a lot.

[Heatblizzard]

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yes he just goes "ouch ill be back" and the other charactesr go "we should find his heart I guess."

then it skips the fight after you found it.

there's a fairly easy infinite hp/regen combo you can do, and you just whittle him down with basic attacks. easily outhealed.

there's several gimmick fights in super mario rpg where you only deal 1hp to a boo-type enemy, so it didn't seem that unusual.

But what I recall is the attacks make a 'ding' noise because they don't hurt him one bit so how is that possible to even give him a minimum of 1 HP of damage in that state? You can heal all you want but I don't think he'll be given the slightest bit of damage.

[permanent name]

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yes he just goes "ouch ill be back" and the other charactesr go "we should find his heart I guess."

then it skips the fight after you found it.

there's a fairly easy infinite hp/regen combo you can do, and you just whittle him down with basic attacks. easily outhealed.

there's several gimmick fights in super mario rpg where you only deal 1hp to a boo-type enemy, so it didn't seem that unusual.

But what I recall is the attacks make a 'ding' noise because they don't hurt him one bit so how is that possible to even give him a minimum of 1 HP of damage in that state?

idk maybe I'm misremembering. idk if I played the n64 or the gc version.

[Heatblizzard]

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But what I recall is the attacks make a 'ding' noise because they don't hurt him one bit so how is that possible to even give him a minimum of 1 HP of damage in that state?

idk maybe I'm misremembering. idk if I played the n64 or the gc version.

But I never fully maxed out the characters either so I don't know if the 'ding' was because I wasn't strong enough where if I fully maxed out it might be a different outcome? Sort of like defeating Lavos early in Chrono Trigger's Undersea Palace where you get the super secret developers ending BEFORE engaging in New Game + to do it the usual way.

[permanent name]

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idk maybe I'm misremembering. idk if I played the n64 or the gc version.

But I never fully maxed out the characters either so I don't know if the 'ding' was because I wasn't strong enough where if I fully maxed out it might be a different outcome? Sort of like defeating Lavos early in Chrono Trigger's Undersea Palace where you get the super secret developers ending BEFORE engaging in New Game + to do it the usual way.

isn't that a remake feature?

I like to wander around in rpgs a lot so I tend to get a lot of grinding done. I vaguely remember putting some + points into a maxed-out attack stat specifically to stop dings from happening on other enemies. wanted to fix my sp econ or something since I had 3 physicals and 1 caster and the enemies only had like 5 hp idk.

[Heatblizzard]

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But I never fully maxed out the characters either so I don't know if the 'ding' was because I wasn't strong enough where if I fully maxed out it might be a different outcome? Sort of like defeating Lavos early in Chrono Trigger's Undersea Palace where you get the super secret developers ending BEFORE engaging in New Game + to do it the usual way.

isn't that a remake feature?

I like to wander around in rpgs a lot so I tend to get a lot of grinding done. I vaguely remember putting some + points into a maxed-out attack stat specifically to stop dings from happening on other enemies. idk.

In Chrono Trigger you get a New Game + once you go thru one of it's endings properly and you get a lot of your stats with you from the previous save so you can hunt for the elusive endings including I think the super secret one. Or do you have to do the super secret one before reaching new game plus I can't remember. Either way it's an unusual way to defeat him because normally you have two errr three options:

Go to him thru the story or go to the evil well at the end of time which Gasper warns you about or use the 'right' telepod I believe which warps you to Lavos right away which may also be locked to NG+ The left telepod is what you normally use to try and find Marle as the story goes.

[permanent name]

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isn't that a remake feature?

I like to wander around in rpgs a lot so I tend to get a lot of grinding done. I vaguely remember putting some + points into a maxed-out attack stat specifically to stop dings from happening on other enemies. idk.

In Chrono Trigger you get a New Game + once you go thru one of it's endings properly and you get a lot of your stats with you from the previous save so you can hunt for the elusive endings including I think the super secret one. Or do you have to do the super secret one before reaching new game plus I can't remember. Either way it's an unusual way to defeat him because normally you have two errr three options:

Go to him thru the story or go to the evil well at the end of time or use the 'right' telepod I believe which warps you to Lavos right away which may also be locked to NG+

yeah but I think vanilla lavos just nukes you for non-damage in a battlecutscene. kind of the counterpoint to the rainbow-robot earlier in the segment that you can beat but still lose to; lavos just knocks you down flat-out. isn't vulnerable then until NG+, and is an easier fight than soloing it with chrono at the fair. infact it's one of the weakest lavos forms, even weaker than when it was just born. that mammon machine really succs it out.

they unlocked the fair pad from ng+ in later releases. it's entirely possible to wander into a lavos fight knowing absolute nothing, for no partcular reason, on your first playthrough. in the remake. several people have aborted playthroughs because of this.

there's also I think more like 8 different times you can fight lavos. the bucket and the 1999 setting are different, as the bucket isn't made until after 1999. you can also kill it as a baby back in time, or as a fully genetically-engineered monster on the flying fortress. or solo it as chrono. it's also possible to trigger 1999 without the wings of time or the bucket, but I forget how. this is a different lavos fight as well.

there's one that's available if you don't save chrono as well, which unlocks a series of obscure Magus-related endings. it's one of the tougher fights though, as you need magus in the party and magus is foundationally terrible against lavos.

[Heatblizzard]

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In Chrono Trigger you get a New Game + once you go thru one of it's endings properly and you get a lot of your stats with you from the previous save so you can hunt for the elusive endings including I think the super secret one. Or do you have to do the super secret one before reaching new game plus I can't remember. Either way it's an unusual way to defeat him because normally you have two errr three options:

Go to him thru the story or go to the evil well at the end of time or use the 'right' telepod I believe which warps you to Lavos right away which may also be locked to NG+

yeah but I think vanilla lavos just nukes you for non-damage in a battlecutscene. kind of the counterpoint to the rainbow-robot earlier in the segment that you can beat but still lose to; lavos just knocks you down flat-out. isn't vulnerable then until NG+, and is an easier fight than soloing it with chrono at the fair. infact it's one of the weakest lavos forms, even weaker than when it was just born. that mammon machine really succs it out.

they unlocked the fair pad from ng+ in later releases. it's entirely possible to wander into a lavos fight knowing absolute nothing, for no partcular reason, on your first playthrough. in the remake. several people have aborted playthroughs because of this.

there's also I think more like 8 different times you can fight lavos. the bucket and the 1999 setting are different, as the bucket isn't made until after 1999. you can also kill it as a baby back in time, or as a fully genetically-engineered monster on the flying fortress. or solo it as chrono. it's also possible to trigger 1999 without the wings of time or the bucket, but I forget how. this is a different lavos fight as well.

there's one that's available if you don't save chrono as well, which unlocks a series of obscure Magus-related endings. it's one of the tougher fights though, as you need magus in the party and magus is foundationally terrible against lavos.

I was talking about Undersea Palace lavos for the first time. Technically your suppose to lose the fight so the next cutscene can happen but I'm sure there's got to be a way to actually win it. I mean I've won the Golom fight in Zeal actually twice when your suppose to lose where you have to keep changing magic elements.

[permanent name]

afaik from tvtropes you can win the undersea palace lavos fight on ng+, and in the remake (i think) there's an extremely obscure series of things you can do to access the lavos chryssalid in one of the island shrines that's normally blocked off. before it's been removed and transported to the palace. it requires a party that has magus in it but not chrono. if you do the sequence then it opens a time gate that takes you to the lavos fight in the undersea palace, and you can win without needing ng+.

I have heard that it's possible to trigger this fight on the original Spanish release version, as it was technically cut content (for some reason) that the Spanish release didn't have cut. couldn't confirm it though; original carts for that region got gathered up and altered, and an autonomous worm was released that altered the roms. other people have confirmed this happened though.

data mining confirmed that the special magus-centric ending for this fight was already in the game files, even on the original release, so...it seems safe to say this was originally in the game at one point.

zeal golem fight is pretty easy if you do all the side content leading up to that point, and have a party that has at least one decent healer and 2 or 3 elemental attacks.



i thought about it more, and iirc being able to see the boo hp's was a gc release feature? or an optional post-max upgrade? i remembered i did have to fight king boo a second time, but he was a pushover because he took more than 1 damage this time. but I think in later remakes you only had to fight him once if you won the first time...?

it's hard to remember and very confusing.