What's your opinion of the American Dream?

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

It is and has always been a fictitious concept in my opinion. The American Dream means whatever makes a person happy. The middle class in America needs to stop shrinking though.

[Duck Twacy]

Publicado originalmente por I'm too Hot:

It is and has always been a fictitious concept in my opinion. The American Dream means whatever makes a person happy. The middle class in America needs to stop shrinking though.

The credit economy has made it more elusive and difficult to achieve. Regular people don't pay cash for cars anymore. They rent apartments. Their homes are usually mortgaged or paid by a bank loan. For some people they work merely to pay their credit cards or loans they used to pay off bills.

The American dream, according to my high school English teacher is to give your children a better life than what you had. I think it gets more difficult with each newer generation.

[qb]

for american dream to be actual reality it has to be able to provide all people on earth, as it exists now you basically are lucky to be in the us, the rest get the shaft as they will be the ones to make the actual dream happen in reality by forced low wage labors etc, it not realisiable basically in real economy for every person on earth to live american dream, its a pyramid style system with most us citizens at the top and the rest serving the system to make it happen at the cost of the lower class "rest of the world" people, including europe and the rest.

[Pierce Dalton]

The "American dream" is real, but as with everything in life, not everyone is lucky enough to materialize it.

[Pierce Dalton]

Publicado originalmente por Eld3r:

Publicado originalmente por m 4 t t m o 0:

If you're between the ages of 25-32 (I could say 35, but I guess some think that's late)

Could you not spend the next 20 years building your life up to reaching your goal?

In that respect... I don't see the problem. Of course it's not easy, but really
...Don't make so many excuses

i feel like too many people now think that is too long to work towards success

i hope i am wrong and not just thinking like a boomer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Z39Uqybcw

[Triple G]

^
I actually like the totally enthusiastic crowd...

That was most likely very hard work.

Publicado originalmente por m 4 t t m o 0:

If you're between the ages of 25-32 (I could say 35, but I guess some think that's late)

Could you not spend the next 20 years building your life-up-to reaching your goal?

In that respect... I don't see the problem. Of course it's not easy, but really

...Don't make so many excuses!

What do You want to do when You reach Your life goal with the age of 45 - 52 and saved up everything for that, when all the medical problems start and Your saving are spend on glasses, and healthcare products - or things which You apparently didn´t need before as well?

And i´m unsure which company plans the next 20 years ahead - usually they can´t tell You in detail what happens tomorrow, even if they obviously have a plan for the next business year to meet certain expectations and promises they made towards the bank or the investors.

It depends on the goal and talents You have. Most businesses go bankrupt within the first 7 years - so in 20 years You have many tries, if a private insolvency lasts for like 3 years, as most wouldn´t just opt out when it doesn´t hurt, but follow that advice to work harder - till they´re totally broken and finally give up. Then not only with the bankruptcy, but perhaps also with burn out or other mental problems which take a while to come back...

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

Publicado originalmente por Duck Twacy:

Publicado originalmente por I'm too Hot:

It is and has always been a fictitious concept in my opinion. The American Dream means whatever makes a person happy. The middle class in America needs to stop shrinking though.

The credit economy has made it more elusive and difficult to achieve. Regular people don't pay cash for cars anymore. They rent apartments. Their homes are usually mortgaged or paid by a bank loan. For some people they work merely to pay their credit cards or loans they used to pay off bills.

The American dream, according to my high school English teacher is to give your children a better life than what you had. I think it gets more difficult with each newer generation.

Yeah, it's much different in today's world. You get a college degree and employers still want 5+ years of relative work experience. A college degree just gets your foot in the door, as in possibly getting an interview after applying for 50+ jobs. A college degree today equates to a high school diploma 50 years ago. It's almost like the bare minimum you need today to get good jobs. People oftentimes still have to go to a trade school after college.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

Publicado originalmente por I'm too Hot:

Publicado originalmente por Duck Twacy:

The credit economy has made it more elusive and difficult to achieve. Regular people don't pay cash for cars anymore. They rent apartments. Their homes are usually mortgaged or paid by a bank loan. For some people they work merely to pay their credit cards or loans they used to pay off bills.

The American dream, according to my high school English teacher is to give your children a better life than what you had. I think it gets more difficult with each newer generation.

Yeah, it's much different in today's world. You get a college degree and they still want 5+ years of relative work experience. A college degree just gets your foot in the door, as in possibly getting an interview after applying for 50+ jobs. A college degree today equates to a high school diploma 50 years ago. It's almost like the bare minimum you need today to get good jobs. People oftentimes still have to go to a trade school after college.

Also, the American Dream means different things to different people today. Some people don't want to get married or have kids. Some want a modest life while others want an extravagant lifestyle.

[xAlphaStarOmegax]

"The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

[qb]

Publicado originalmente por m 4 t t m o 0:

Publicado originalmente por I'm too Hot:

Yeah, it's much different in today's world. You get a college degree and they still want 5+ years of relative work experience. A college degree just gets your foot in the door, as in possibly getting an interview after applying for 50+ jobs. A college degree today equates to a high school diploma 50 years ago.

That being the case, I mean a good college education should lead to an internship

Or maybe even a job... If one of those isn't the case, than IMO,

You probably wasted your chance at picking that school/education... 90% of the time

Publicado originalmente por Triple G:

^
I actually like the totally enthusiastic crowd...

That was most likely very hard work.

What do You want to do when You reach Your life goal with the age of 45 - 52 and saved up everything for that, when all the medical problems start and Your saving are spend on glasses, and healthcare products - or things which You apparently didn´t need before as well?

And i´m unsure which company plans the next 20 years ahead - usually they can´t tell You in detail what happens tomorrow, even if they obviously have a plan for the next business year to meet certain expectations and promises they made towards the bank or the investors.

It depends on the goal and talents You have. Most businesses go bankrupt within the first 7 years - so in 20 years You have many tries, if a private insolvency lasts for like 3 years, as most wouldn´t just opt out when it doesn´t hurt, but follow that advice to work harder - till they´re totally broken and finally give up. Then not only with the bankruptcy, but perhaps also with burn out or other mental problems which take a while to come back...

None of the companies I have worked for seem to have some version of the problem you're talking about... To any major extent, at least. Of course, I see the logic of what you say.

And fine, if not a 20 year plan then perhaps a 25 year plan.

Yep yep, there's plenty of problems for all of us to face.
Despite that, if there wasn't... I don't think there would be much of a challenge in life.

The current economic situation probably encourages people to think more about things.
Yeah... There is a lot of bad stuff, and it *could* be crippling.

Was it ever different?? Even in the old days, people had problems you seldom hear of now
It's not like you or I ever had to deal with the great depression either, which is a plus.

some virtual reality is proably the only way out of this, there is no actual planetary resources of perpetual advancement in current tech, because in current tech is like a card house relies on its own obsolete tech to sustain itself ie fossil fuels and other ancienct tech is mostly only replaceable on paper since if people can not be told what to do ie be a totally controlled unit any advanced tech may lead to end of entire civilization, which is not preferrable, and on the other spectrum basically a dystopia where people become ai controlled bio robot machines, but they can have noice things in life since anything they do is perfectly under control via ai microchip implants.

[jonzuk]

its a nightmare

[I'm_Tired]

American dream was aimed at the Jewish immigrants from eastern Europe that came to the US in the early 20th century and lived in slums before they rose up (mostly from nepotism).

[Triple G]

Publicado originalmente por I'm too Hot:

A college degree today equates to a high school diploma 50 years ago.

Here basically the same jobs which required some job training before now require an university degree. Reason: they can´t just raise the salary of certain people, but it has to be connected to the requirements. It was done to make certain jobs more attractive (salary) - and the private companies did that was well afterwards, because nowadays like half of the people - if not the majority - have higher education, and nobody wants to work in jobs which get the hands dirty, which are on top not paid very well - and You´re treated differently.

Everybody who is halfway clever and good in the job will go into some superior positions, while only the idiots would do the other work. And then they complain about product quality or issues with the quality of work. What do they expect when they don´t value the work and the actual good workers wouldn´t want to do the work, because the superiors aren´t qualified for the superior job, but to do the actual work - but they switch, because the other job is more convenient and paid a bit better? And on top You have always more bureaucracy, while they always talk about reducing it. That´s smaller companies, not the ones which have their different cost centers, which all hire their own people and there´s no way to switch into some higher position, as they´re highly specialized.

Publicado originalmente por m 4 t t m o 0:

Despite that, if there wasn't... I don't think there would be much of a challenge in life.

Challenge in life is mostly for disabled people and those who don´t know how to feed their children, or how to finance their medical care - but those usually solve it by getting more children in case some will die in the process of growing up.

Else life has no challenge - it all depends on Your goals, as there´s no default goal to it, but death ends it, and we´re all going to get there.

Of course it´s still easy to get any job - if You´re good with people, with words and look somehow sympathetic - and if You´re not too picky about the work. If not - it´s harder. Also like a few decades ago it was possible to have some common job and finance a house and feed a whole family with it. These jobs are now low wage jobs and You can barely pay the rent for a small flat, while of course there are still the same job with the old contracts, which still pay the same - but all new people are hired via a newly founded sub company, which offers another contract, which pays 1k less per month - which is still 1k more per month than the same job in a small company, or the same job in the same company which only has rental workers, as these get minimum wage. So You have three different salaries for the same job in the same company working next to each other, when human rights say that there has to be the same pay for the same work - and our base law (like constitution) says that we need to follow the human rights.

TL;DR:
Many things about work and certain things can´t really be explained - and people are a bit more ware of it. Which makes the whole work thing a bit suspicious, even more so when You see what´s happening elsewhere in the world. It´s not all about money here. It´s about QoL, purpose and doing something meaningful - not necessarily about being rich.

[Xero_Daxter]

Thank you, government. Paying me to play Call of Duty. I’m collecting that unemployment money.

[Xautos]

Publicado originalmente por I'm too Hot:

What's your opinion of the American Dream?
It is and has always been a fictitious concept in my opinion. The American Dream means whatever makes a person happy. The middle class in America needs to stop shrinking though.

if the American dream meant anything, you wouldn't have the sheer level of intolerance from american users on this forum, you wouldn't have Trump putting up walls along the American-Mexican border. Innocent people fleeing for their lives from their previous country to seek a new life as an American citizen one day and their families would find sanctuary in the USA instead of being used as a political weapon or treated with contempt.

America is built on the back of immigration, migration and a melting pot of ideas, cultures and values, it always has and always will be. yet the politics right now are so divisive that it's creating a great strain on what the american dream really means to the outsider who wants to experience it.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

Publicado originalmente por Triple G:

Publicado originalmente por I'm too Hot:

A college degree today equates to a high school diploma 50 years ago.

Here basically the same jobs which required some job training before now require an university degree. Reason: they can´t just raise the salary of certain people, but it has to be connected to the requirements. It was done to make certain jobs more attractive (salary) - and the private companies did that was well afterwards, because nowadays like half of the people - if not the majority - have higher education, and nobody wants to work in jobs which get the hands dirty, which are on top not paid very well - and You´re treated differently.

Everybody who is halfway clever and good in the job will go into some superior positions, while only the idiots would do the other work. And then they complain about product quality or issues with the quality of work. What do they expect when they don´t value the work and the actual good workers wouldn´t want to do the work, because the superiors aren´t qualified for the superior job, but to do the actual work - but they switch, because the other job is more convenient and paid a bit better? And on top You have always more bureaucracy, while they always talk about reducing it. That´s smaller companies, not the ones which have their different cost centers, which all hire their own people and there´s no way to switch into some higher position, as they´re highly specialized.

Publicado originalmente por m 4 t t m o 0:

Despite that, if there wasn't... I don't think there would be much of a challenge in life.

Challenge in life is mostly for disabled people and those who don´t know how to feed their children, or how to finance their medical care - but those usually solve it by getting more children in case some will die in the process of growing up.

Else life has no challenge - it all depends on Your goals, as there´s no default goal to it, but death ends it, and we´re all going to get there.

Of course it´s still easy to get any job - if You´re good with people, with words and look somehow sympathetic - and if You´re not too picky about the work. If not - it´s harder. Also like a few decades ago it was possible to have some common job and finance a house and feed a whole family with it. These jobs are now low wage jobs and You can barely pay the rent for a small flat, while of course there are still the same job with the old contracts, which still pay the same - but all new people are hired via a newly founded sub company, which offers another contract, which pays 1k less per month - which is still 1k more per month than the same job in a small company, or the same job in the same company which only has rental workers, as these get minimum wage. So You have three different salaries for the same job in the same company working next to each other, when human rights say that there has to be the same pay for the same work - and our base law (like constitution) says that we need to follow the human rights.

TL;DR:
Many things about work and certain things can´t really be explained - and people are a bit more ware of it. Which makes the whole work thing a bit suspicious, even more so when You see what´s happening elsewhere in the world. It´s not all about money here. It´s about QoL, purpose and doing something meaningful - not necessarily about being rich.

It's terrible because some women don't like feminism and the work lifestyle. Some would rather be housewives. It's unfortunate that it's too difficult to support a family and household on a single person's income.