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Arvaos 2024 年 4 月 3 日 下午 9:14
Dutch Colonialism?
North Americans trace their roots to the British while South Americans trace their own to Spain and Portugal.

Why aren't there any major Dutch civilizations considering they were a superpower before the British Empire?
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Schindler's Lifts 2024 年 4 月 3 日 下午 9:29 
Indonesia?
Caldari Ghost 2024 年 4 月 3 日 下午 9:35 
I like madagascar they have talking penguins
Arvaos 2024 年 4 月 3 日 下午 9:35 
引用自 Schindler's Lifts
Indonesia?

Indonesia is the only country where the language of the former colonisers is no longer spoken.

Traces of Dutch influences in Indonesia include Dutch origin loanwords in Indonesian and cuisine. Some Indonesian dishes have been adopted and, in turn, influenced Dutch cuisine. Though cultural relations are no longer strong, Christianity in Indonesia was a result of proselytisation by mainly Dutch missionaries.
ZZZZZ 2024 年 4 月 3 日 下午 9:39 
they werent a super power tho.. they just had a trade empire which isnt remotely enough for proper colonialization
tmwfte 2024 年 4 月 3 日 下午 9:40 
Everyone hates the Dutch. Especially Michael Caine.
Arvaos 2024 年 4 月 3 日 下午 9:43 
引用自 ZZZZZ
they werent a super power tho.. they just had a trade empire which isnt remotely enough for proper colonialization

They had a hell of a navy for a trade empire.

It is estimated that, in its heyday, the Netherlands had more than 2,000 ships, surpassing any other country. England had no more than 200 and Spain perhaps even fewer. At sea, the Netherlands reigned supreme: that much is clear. One of the pillars of Dutch wealth in the seventeenth century was its type of ship.
该讨论串的作者已表示此帖子解答了原先的主题。
Violent Rainbow 2024 年 4 月 3 日 下午 9:47 
South Africa
Hobbit XIII 2024 年 4 月 4 日 上午 4:28 
引用自 Arvaos
North Americans trace their roots to the British while South Americans trace their own to Spain and Portugal.

Why aren't there any major Dutch civilizations considering they were a superpower before the British Empire?

I would not call it a superpower.
It was very significant.
It is up to people themselves to promote their heritage.

North Americans trace their roots to a variety of countries ie Ireland. Even if they were Scottish 'Nope, we are Irish American' 'Nope, we are Italian American' 'Nope, we are African American' 'Nope, we trace our lineage to the Isle of Wight' .
Don't normally hear the term British American.
steven1mac 2024 年 4 月 4 日 上午 4:42 
New Amsterdam, later renamed New York.
Arkham99 2024 年 4 月 4 日 上午 5:48 
lots of Dutch heritage here in Canada...:-)
JacquesPatat 2024 年 4 月 4 日 上午 5:53 
引用自 Violent Rainbow
South Africa
South Africa, we have 11 official languages and one of them is Afrikaans which is Dutch descendent and the youngest language. Which is my first language.
Dutchgamer1982 2024 年 4 月 4 日 上午 6:52 
引用自 Arvaos
North Americans trace their roots to the British while South Americans trace their own to Spain and Portugal.

Why aren't there any major Dutch civilizations considering they were a superpower before the British Empire?

as a Dutch :

we colonised very differently than the brits.
despite the brits learning everything about colonism from us when our monarch conquered britain.

we did not percieved the massive population surpluss as the brits have thus there was never such a push to offload our surpluss population elsewhere..
(ironicly cause at the time the netherlands had a larger population than all of the uk + ireland combined)

we tended to be less intrusive than the brits.. we opted more for local tradeposts.. and treaties to get exclusive trading rights.. we did NOT impose as often our culture and religion on the foreigners (which was why the dutch were the only ones who were allowed to keep trading with japan)

britain was far more forcing their language and culture on the locals.. meaning that stayed when they were driven out.. not so for us dutch..

we did colonise surinam, south africa and the antilles.. who all speak a dutch dialect now.

we did colonise new york.. and cylon.. but those were taken by the brits who wiped most dutchness away (even though one of the first usa presidents was dutch and new york streets still bare names pointing to this past.)

we had a 100+ tradeposts.. along the coast of africa and asia.. madagascar and goldcoast most notably but those were used to extract slaves and resources.. without caring much what happened inland..

we did colonise indonesia.. but that particulair case.. the only duchefied part was the local noble class.. colaborators who we did allow to remain living in luxery as long as they kept their underlings passified and supplying us the tradegoods we wanted.
when indonesia rose in revolt many of those former indonesians fled to netherlands..
the remaining population bred like rabbits.. so theres that..

dutch were very much used to "verzuiling" basicly different parts of society having all their own compagnies, media, churches, entertainment, and thus despite living in the same nation having to have hardly anything to do with eachother.

while apartheid in south africa was an extreme expression of that.. it stems from this dutch mindset.
in indonesia for example there were seperate schools for locals and dutch rulers.. whith the dutch schools getting much better funding and the locals getting the stuff that was discarted by the dutch schools.
and cinima's had different entrences for locals and dutch.. if you were luckly it was just a different room.. if unlucky you would be staring at the back of the screen...

if it were an english colony.. indonesia would have spoken english and not be muslim anymore..

so there is something to say for the dutch apartheid model.. it allows more surviving of local language and culture past centuries of colonisation... vs the british model that seeks to wipe out the local culture completely.
最后由 Dutchgamer1982 编辑于; 2024 年 4 月 4 日 上午 6:54
Hobbit XIII 2024 年 4 月 4 日 上午 7:05 
引用自 Dutchgamer1982
引用自 Arvaos
North Americans trace their roots to the British while South Americans trace their own to Spain and Portugal.

Why aren't there any major Dutch civilizations considering they were a superpower before the British Empire?

as a Dutch :

we colonised very differently than the brits.
despite the brits learning everything about colonism from us when our monarch conquered britain.

we did not percieved the massive population surpluss as the brits have thus there was never such a push to offload our surpluss population elsewhere..
(ironicly cause at the time the netherlands had a larger population than all of the uk + ireland combined)

we tended to be less intrusive than the brits.. we opted more for local tradeposts.. and treaties to get exclusive trading rights.. we did NOT impose as often our culture and religion on the foreigners (which was why the dutch were the only ones who were allowed to keep trading with japan)

britain was far more forcing their language and culture on the locals.. meaning that stayed when they were driven out.. not so for us dutch..

we did colonise surinam, south africa and the antilles.. who all speak a dutch dialect now.

we did colonise new york.. and cylon.. but those were taken by the brits who wiped most dutchness away (even though one of the first usa presidents was dutch and new york streets still bare names pointing to this past.)

we had a 100+ tradeposts.. along the coast of africa and asia.. madagascar and goldcoast most notably but those were used to extract slaves and resources.. without caring much what happened inland..

we did colonise indonesia.. but that particulair case.. the only duchefied part was the local noble class.. colaborators who we did allow to remain living in luxery as long as they kept their underlings passified and supplying us the tradegoods we wanted.
when indonesia rose in revolt many of those former indonesians fled to netherlands..
the remaining population bred like rabbits.. so theres that..

dutch were very much used to "verzuiling" basicly different parts of society having all their own compagnies, media, churches, entertainment, and thus despite living in the same nation having to have hardly anything to do with eachother.

while apartheid in south africa was an extreme expression of that.. it stems from this dutch mindset.
in indonesia for example there were seperate schools for locals and dutch rulers.. whith the dutch schools getting much better funding and the locals getting the stuff that was discarted by the dutch schools.
and cinima's had different entrences for locals and dutch.. if you were luckly it was just a different room.. if unlucky you would be staring at the back of the screen...

if it were an english colony.. indonesia would have spoken english and not be muslim anymore..

so there is something to say for the dutch apartheid model.. it allows more surviving of local language and culture past centuries of colonisation... vs the british model that seeks to wipe out the local culture completely.

So much to counter with this - but before it turns into a historical guitar axe duel show off....

Where England demanded standards be raised Dutch said 'meh keep on treating your subjects badly just give us trade' .

Jesuits and Dutch differences in Japan is summed up very well in the game Shogun Total War.

If anybody is interested in Japan just before Sekigahara then the series and book 'Shogun' by James Clavell, historical fiction but accurate with names changed and bits and pieces.
最后由 Hobbit XIII 编辑于; 2024 年 4 月 4 日 上午 7:05
Heitor Villa-Lobos 2024 年 4 月 4 日 上午 7:09 
The Brazilian Nordeste region actually descends from the Dutch.

I guess because of miscigenation and adoption on local culture and values, they are not usually associatef with the Dutch, who must have more than a little underlying racism (see Zwart Pete).
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发帖日期: 2024 年 4 月 3 日 下午 9:14
回复数: 15