usa drunk driving law is idiotic don't you think so?

[De Hollandse Ezel]

In my country people who are drunk, in an understanable rage, or insane are legally "not accountable for their actions"

nobody on purpose kills other people.. and to have people who cause an accident due drunk driving go to jail as they do in usa in insanity to me.

now I think my nations laws around drinking and driving are a lot better.

firstly our drivers are a LOT better trained (minimumage to get a licence is 18, not 16 as in usa, and our driving licence lessons and exams are way stricter.. there is a reason getting a licence will easely cost you 4 thousand euro and thats IF you even pass your first exam.. which about halve don't.. meaning an aditional 2k and 2 months for more lessons are slapped on top before doing your reexam.. most will pass this 2d run.. but theres always some who don't about 10% of all people won't have their licence even after 2 exams.. so thats another 2k.. more lessons.,. you get it.. there is no limit how often you can retry.,. but there is a minimum time between exams, and a minimum number of lessons you must take between each exam.

secondly our roads are a lot safer in their design -> usa roads are like 50 years behind in safety designs vs dutch roads..

usa has way way higher trafficdeaths per 10000 people.. than netherlands mostly because these above 2 reasons.. and idioticly strict alchol laws are not even a drop on that..

so to tross people who merely did a misdemeneor (drunk driving) into jail for manslaughter is UTTERLY insane when it is your road designs and low bar for getting a driving licence that are truelly to blame for the deaths.

now... what will happen if you drink and drive and cause a deathly accident in MY country,
***it depends firstly how MUCH you did drink.

-you are legaly allowed to drink upto 2 units of alcohol and still be legal to drive.
(thats basicly normal sized glasses of 250ml normal 5% beer, 100ml of 12% wine, or 30ml of 40% spirits)
1 unit takes an average persons liver 2 hours to filter out of your blood, so how long ago you drank before driving does still matter

If you are found with or at this ammount while in the accident the following will happen.
***insurance will pay out as normal, you were to the law considered sober
***if you had your licence for over 2 years.. nothing will happen.. just an accident.
***if you had your licence for LESS than 2 years though.. you get a mark (you also get that mark if found with any alcohol in a standard roadstop if you got your licence less than 2 years)
->
if you get 2 marks on a licence before you own it 2 years.. you loose it.. permanently (so you lost on a HEFTY cash investment). AND are banned from taking new driving lessons or taking exams for 2 years.

(basicly the law does allow experienced drivers to drink some alchol.. but does not beginning drivers)

still nobody gets fined.. nobody gets a criminal record, nobody goes to jail despite a person just died.. accidents happen.

------
a second amount of blood alchol... basicly more than 2 units.. but below 5 units.. will get you a fine, you are also instantly denied to continue driving, as well you aint sober
-> beginning drivers at this level will recieve 2 marks at once (so instantly loose their licence)

but other than that.. still nothing happens, no criminal record, no jailtime, no nothing, just a misdemeneor.
---------
over 5 units of alcohol (and up)

**this is where EVERY driver even experienced onces will loose their licence on the spot.
they will also be banned from continue to drive on.
-> and they will not get a standard fine.. but their case will go to a judge
-> judges are buisy so you likely at least loose your licence for 3 months until your case gets on trial.
**the judge will look at their case and set a fine, and a time for which the licencence will be held (for experienced drivers) or for how long you will be denied driving lessons (for beginning drivers)
**maximum fine the judge can give is 8000 euro.. maximum time you may loose your licence is 10 years.. (judge usually picks something below that extreme matching the severity of your case.. and the severity is NOT that you caused an accident, but by the judge of character.. one factor is how much DID you drink.. but repeated offender also counts.. finally.. character.. if the judge sees your young, and shocked.. or just a decent civillian who drank to much once cause his wife left him/just died.. he will judge lighter than if he sees a person who basicly is more hillbilly in their attitude..
in any cause you will NOT go to jail, and this judges judgment will NOT depend on the damage you caused.. so deaths or not plays no part in his ruling.
->
in REALLY extreme cases the judge can demand upto 6 months communiuty service.. to give back, and demand an alchollock to be installed when the no licence time has passed. (an alcohollock will be installed at the drivers own expense.. it basicly detects alchol in the drivers breath and won't allow the car to start if ANY is in it)

==================================
now why is taking somebody's licence and that such a big deal?

driving without licence or driving in a car without alchollock when the judge said you have to have one.. IS a criminal offense.. that again regardless of damages caused.. can land you upto 1 year in jail (but can.. is not the same as always will).. you car will in that case also be ceized.. and regardless of if your given jailtime or not you WILL get a criminal record.
(a cat 1 one, so it will disapear from your record in 10 years.. but still thats a long time to be excluded from jobs that need a "certificate of lawfull behavipr" -> a document only citycents without any criminal record can get from their city council to hand their employer.

[Chaosolous]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Incarnate:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Chaosolous:

This man was given a life sentence after his 9th DUI.

https://nypost.com/2023/04/21/texas-man-christopher-faran-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-after-receiving-9th-dwi/

IIRC he didn’t hit anyone but the judge decided it was only a matter of time until he kills someone’s so the judge gave him life.

That's not at all what the OP was referring to all in that post. That's called aggravated factors.

Also, that's extremely rare. Most people serve little or no time.

I know. You were speaking in absolutes though with “nobody”

Only reason I mentioned it.

I think our drinking and driving laws should be much tougher personally. Mandatory 1 year prison time after your first offense (or after a really bad first offense) would be nice.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Face Diaper:

Oprindeligt skrevet af De Hollandse Ezel:

In my country people who are drunk, in an understanable rage, or insane are legally "not accountable for their actions"

That's not good. As a person who drinks constantly, I will never put myself in a situation where I would hurt someone else. This is why I get drunk alone, when no one is around.

Drinking is not an excuse to hurt someone. Also, the Netherlands does throw people in jail for being drunk. I have 3 cousins and one aunt who lives there. They're all seen a jail cell for their drunk behavior.

you will not be tossed in jail just for being drunk.. nor will it be real jail as in no criminal record wll happen.
-it is not allowed to be homeless in out country.. so if police see you sleep in a gutter or public bench or something.. they will try to wake you up.. fine you for homelessness.. and order you to walk home or call somebody to pick you up.
-if your however so drunk that you cannot give a coherant responce to that than you will be placed into detention at a police office.. which is not "in jail", for your own protection for the night.. you will not get a criminal charge and it will be released.. basicly if your that drunk you cannot properly identify yourself and than they may detain you.
-if your stll walking but clearly so drunk you risk injuring yourself.. same thing.. detention.. for own safety
-vomiting in public... is littering which is a fine.. if you cannot provide id or are to drunk to understand the order to provide id... than you again are detained for the night so you can id the next morning recieve your fine.. and be send on your merry way.
-if you make a lot of noice disturbing the nightly peace.. than again detained.

-if you were involved in a fight when drunk.. than charges can be pressed..it will be a lesser punishment when drunk than if you were in a fight when sober.. but assault is assault.
-but even in barfight cases.. where police do not trust when they pull you off eachother the violence will stop but the fight continuies when they leave.. they just toss both in detaintion for the night.

so.. no you are not put in jail for being drunk
you CAN in some cases be put in detention for being drunk.. which is not jail
you never can be held in detention for more than 24h without pressing charges... and generally if just cause drunk.. they let you go after a good night sleep.

[the vampire of time and memory]

Oprindeligt skrevet af ZZZZZ:

would u say the same about a flight controller or someone driving a train? imagine them being drunk and causing a train/airplane crash

yes, let people enjoy things

[De Hollandse Ezel]

Oprindeligt skrevet af the vampire of time and memory:

Oprindeligt skrevet af ZZZZZ:

would u say the same about a flight controller or someone driving a train? imagine them being drunk and causing a train/airplane crash

yes, let people enjoy things

than I say the same thing.
a pilot or traindriver who is drunk on the job
**will be fired without unemployed benefits, nor severage payment..
**he also looses his licence for at least 10 years...
**and on top of that he likely is banned from doing that and similair jobs for life.
+ a fine for being drunk.

this punishment should be the same for ALL drunk pilots and train drivers.
same as all drunk car drivers deserve the same fine + loose licence.

the fact if they have an accident drunk or non drunk.. is irrelevant.
yes it is risky.. thats why there is a fine and a loose licence tied to it.
(and for traindrivrs and pilots a loose job)
but it would be incorrect to put ANY of them in jail by the pure direroll of being unlucky to have an accident.

so you punish for "putting others in danger" and that should be the same for ALL.
regardless if that "putting in danger" results in actual accident.. or if they get away lucky this time.

so you either put ALL drunk drivers 10 years in jail REGARDLESS if they cause accidents.. or non of them.
one does NOT punish by a roll of the dice..
-
personally I deem putting people in jail for just drunk driving... excessive so a fine and loosing licence suffices.

aka if drinking turns the 4d5 into 1d17+3 than yes the chance you actually roll 20.. has gone up by a large factor..
and it's that increase in chance that you punish.
NOT wheither you actually roll that 20.

[the vampire of time and memory]

Oprindeligt skrevet af De Hollandse Ezel:

Oprindeligt skrevet af the vampire of time and memory:

yes, let people enjoy things

[...]

idk about all that but I'm happy for you king, or sad that happened

[De Hollandse Ezel]

Oprindeligt skrevet af the vampire of time and memory:

Oprindeligt skrevet af De Hollandse Ezel:

[...]

idk about all that but I'm happy for you king, or sad that happened

I have never been even under influence in my life... I hardly drink any alcohol at all.. like on average less than 1 glass a month. and most I ever had was 3 glasses in a day.. at a day long wedding... champagne at 12am.. wine at 18am (dinner) and a beer at reception at 22am

I very strongly believe it is forbidden for christians to be under influence of alcohol (or other substances) and thus we must be extremely moderate in how much alchol we consume.

but even I deem it way excessive if a person just for being drunk is tossed 10 or 20 years in jail.. like usa does.

I have been in detention three times in my life.

one time was when my parents in my teens treathend to call the police if I did not leave (I was legally in boarding school but I felt abadoned so I not wanted to leave)..
parents did not bluff.. did call police... and I ran away out the house.. not desiring another hour of preaching to me..

unlucky for me the police is out of shape.. they could not even close to keep up but that ment they called reinforcement (before they even asked my parents why they did call)..
it took 4 policecars and 2 km to eventually manage to drive me into a alleyway I could no longer run escape from.. they had covered all the excists and so they finally grabbed me.. cuffed me and placed me in detention.

**well my bad luck was.. than the policeman who had visited my parents did not come back to the office.. they were called to a shooting elsewhere and were gone until the next morning.. and legally they could not call in the fact I was totally innocent.. nothing happened.. they had to hand in their paperwork in person.. on the station which did not happen until like midday .. meaning I did have to spend 18hr till 12hr in a dirty detentioncell..
was let go without any charges logically.. but it did suck.. got the feeling the police did kind of let me in extra lang partly also cause they were pissed I showed their piss poor condition :P

=====================================
second time in detention was when it was just before christmas.. doing christmasshopping... last day before shops would close for a week 9as they do around christmas) and I still needed a new smoking.. so I was kind of annoyed when the city center was all blocked off by police..

they did not reveal what it was just forbade anybody to cross the line into the mainstreet where all the shops were..

there had been like 20 false bom reports that month.. (terrorist reports rarely are true) and I am of the opinion that this kind of overresponce feeds those trolls.. just ignore the terrotrists living stiff upperlip buisnuis as usual while explosions left and right of you.. is the RIGHT attitude..

so thinking this is likely YET another fake bomcall.. I crossed the yellow tape... mistake...
these dudes were not the gentle normal police.. these were militairy police.. and they already told many people back behind the line.. I was apearingly the one they deemed deserved to be made an example.. so he worked me quite forcefully to the ground.. cuffed me and dragged me off..

-I was released 4 hours later.. not even made it to a detention cell.. only sat locked up in their van... apearingly

(it was btw no bomcall there was a leak in the city's hotwaterline.. meaning the subwaystation and cellars of some shops were now filled with steaming hot boiling water...
-
yes if you fell in that be boiled alive...

still no reason to close all the ABOVE ground shops... tmho.. and many shopowners did open a lawsuit against the city for all the lost chrismassrevenue.

for me it was the year I had no proper smoking or suit.. as by the time I was let go all stores even those in other cities were closed.
and while it was still 4 days till christmas.. non would open before than.

=======
last time was again in a shopping street.. I was shopppiung.. when in the city center footbalholigans broke out rioting..... me was send in with teargass and watercannons to restore order.. (I stayed in the store that locked the doors while it was going on outside..)

when the teargass and watercannons stopped.. I moved out.. wanting to get out of there.. only problem.. ME had decided to just make a coridor than arrest EVERYONE inside.. that included me..

as they had to process thousands of people against cameraimages and witnesstestemonies.. it took again nearly a day (23hr) in detention.. when it was confirmed I was an innocent bystander.. and let go.

******
so detention is nothing bad.. it happens even to law abiding citycens;)

[De Hollandse Ezel]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Incarnate:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Chaosolous:

This man was given a life sentence after his 9th DUI.

https://nypost.com/2023/04/21/texas-man-christopher-faran-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-after-receiving-9th-dwi/

IIRC he didn’t hit anyone but the judge decided it was only a matter of time until he kills someone’s so the judge gave him life.

That's not at all what the OP was referring to all in that post. That's called aggravated factors.

Also, that's extremely rare. Most people serve little or no time.

I mean those normal college teens or normal citycens.. who just drink a bit more than allowed.. maybe they had have 4 glasses.. thats 2 more than the legal limit.. but its late and they need to go to work tomorrow so unpractical if their car is here....
so irresponsily they drive... than they have a normal accident.. may be a child running on the road.. behind a ball.. or some other driver doing soemthing they respond just a little to slow and.. and by sheer bad luck.. they cause a deadly traffic accident.

than usa puts teens for 12 or 18 years in jail.. basicly ruining their life.. for 1 small mistake.
thats TOTALLY unreasonable.

but even in the extreme case listed.. so a person was found 9 times under HEAVY toxication (so not just driving under influence..(2-5 glasses) but like completely wasted
(WELL above 5 glasses)

well as stated driving with more than 5 glasses will loose you your licence a judge will say for how long.
if he was THAT wasted a judge is more likely to pick the maximum sentence of 5 years no licence and 8000 euro fine,

if he is found driving a vehicle without licence in that time.. than the judge COULD give him upto a year jailtime for driving without licence.. which is unlikely to happen if sovber.,. that his car gets ceized + a fine.. but if drunk again... while without licence cause it was taken for being DUI? yes than you get jailtime.. how much is upto the judge but maximum 1 year.

now.. lets say he does honour that 5 years than he will get his licence back but the judge may place conditions.. like an alcohol lock or an AAA certificate.
if first time offender he is unlikely to get conditions if the rest of his record is clean (if he is outside driving found very often for public drunkenness/ home violence while drunk or such little things that can be reason to demand an alcohol lock)

well than.. if found again DUI.. for multiple offenders of HEAVY alcohol use (over 5 glasses alchol while driving).. the judge can ceize the licence for upto 10 years.,..
and while he has to release the licence after that time has passed.. he once again can place conditions which for a 2d severe offense most likely means an alcohollock

an car with alcohollock won't start unless you breath into a tester and it shows you are sober.
circumvention of such locks by driving while under lawfull order to have a lock but drive in a car without such a lock.. or have somebody else breat into the lock for you.. IS a criminal offense that will give upto 3 years jailtime (again could be nothing.. it upso judge.. maximum he can give is 3 years.


so a person most likely could not get to fo 9 SEVERE DUI.. .. (mild ones that are only a fine yes.. but not the truelly drunk ones.) as such a person would not have a licence...
and thus can not drive at all.

after that 2d cause he likely have that alcohollock preventing any drunk driving.. if good behaving the judge MIGHT remove the lock after like 10 years... (so he now has been 15 years without licence.. for first 2 attempts and blocked from, DUI for annother 10 years..

if he now does a third DUI.. he looses that licence again 10 years.. gets another 8000 euro fine.. and now likely has an alcohollock in his car for life.

as long as out driver does NOT drive without licence.. nor circumvent an alchollock...
he will not have to serve ANY jailtime.

and for any of these rulings it is and should be TOTALLY irrelevant if the DUI is found in a common traffic stop... or caused a massive traffic accident with many deaths.