The job market in the US is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ grim for IT,software tech in general

[BigBallinChester]

I'm usually optimistic about this country but when it comes to Jobs it's always been the absolute hellscape of a place. Getting an entry level(or even internship) IT or software job in the US is basically like being a senior level software position. I've actually looked at software jobs overseas just to compare.

Places like India just have basic HTML developers, and jobs with requirements that are "show up and dress nice". Granted they aren't paid as well as American jobs but I'd rather have a job with little requirements like them and pays 50-60K a year vs 100K a year for a job where I have to know every language under god.

[Dutchgamer1982]

LQIM eredeti hozzászólása:

Sorry tech nerds but a lot of the time you're rejected it's because you sound weak and ineffectual. Sure, it comes with the territory of being a nerd, but if you can't sound confident for at least 20 minutes at a time you're not going anywhere in life

rejected for what?

tech nerds rarely are rejected for jobs.
for relationships, friendships, even a simple invition to a party or any other social activity..
yeah.. THATS the one rejection is common for;)

ofcourse it does matter if your are a geek and not a nerd (a geek being a nerd but with people skills)

in my experience to get a job you must just give them zero chance to reject you.

if you slam down a couple of degrees.. + experience they flat out can't refuse you.
if you start in a weak position and must talk your way in.. some can do that.. but why allow yourself to start at such a disadtantage to start with.

[Morkonan]

Ohio?MoreLikeOhHellNo eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm usually optimistic about this country but when it comes to Jobs it's always been the absolute hellscape of a place. Getting an entry level(or even internship) IT or software job in the US is basically like being a senior level software position. I've actually looked at software jobs overseas just to compare.

Places like India just have basic HTML developers, and jobs with requirements that are "show up and dress nice". Granted they aren't paid as well as American jobs but I'd rather have a job with little requirements like them and pays 50-60K a year vs 100K a year for a job where I have to know every language under god.

I'm glad you got specific. A lot of people just gripe about "jobs bad no jobs."

The entry level IT job market is flooded. The low experience or basic codemonkey market is contract gigs and no job stability. Thus, companies are able to milk the desperate job hunters and force them to take less for more work. Stuff rolls uphill from there.

Due to telecommunications/teh interwebz, the "job market" for these sorts of positions is more-or-less "global." That means competition is going to be unfair to a certain extent for those with a higher cost of living. The product that employers are looking for is acumen and performance, so it's not reliant on production costs, materials, and shipping... Distance working is the new normal, even if it's overseas.

This is to be expected.

When the entry or even mid-level market is flooded and competition can extend globally with ease, there's a grim outlook for workers requiring more of a wage margin for basic living than those who can offer their services cheaply. (Note: There have been restraints and inducements to reduce the impact of foreign tele-workers/contractors in IT, but I don't recall them all atm.)

In an industry with global exposure, there's a natural progression of development where low-skill and entry jobs gradually evolve to be taken up by emerging industrial nations. As long as the supply and quality is sufficient, those jobs will slowly disappear in first-world industrial nations as long as trade/markets are basically normal. (No severe protectionism) This is a truism. It is how emerging nations grow their industries and how job markets evolve in a global economy reliant on human capital. (Take a look at the history of the garment/cloth industry. It's one of the most impactful examples of how such a global industry evolves and is taken up by emerging economies.)

In broad strokes, the solution for a worker confronted with such a job market is to have needed skills and capabilities that those in emerging industrial nations, who can do the work for less, can not or do not have. This is the goal of human and industrial capital in industrialized, first-world, nations...

My advice, such as it is and not being in IT... :)

1) USE your contacts. Start emailing, phone calling, getting in touch with professors/teachers, ex-coworkers, etc. The value of "word of mouth" and having an inside track to potential job openings that others may have yet to discover or be offered is invaluable. There is no such thing as "pride" when job-hunting... :) Linkedin and all that is the normal choice, but use all of your resources. (Headhunters exist if you have the skillsets to interest them.)

2) If you're young, I've seen IT worker friends take jobs they may have been overqualified for just to get certs, new experience, new exposure and resume material, etc... It happens and can pay off if it can be leveraged. Retraining is also an option... Well, if it's an option. (ie: Learn something new. :))

3) In the US, it is possible to be an entrepreneur. The US economy and its business market is one of the most robust in the world. It's never easy to be a "small business owner." But, it's easier in the US to be self-employed than just about any other nation in the world. Yes, it's a risk and many would not want that uncertainty. It's worth considering if you have a level head and a "plan" that could work. :)

4) Overseas employment opportunities exist. I can't recommend any, but if I was considering it I'd stick to Europe... Or, maybe Aussieland or the Kiwis might have something?

[Dutchgamer1982]

Morkonan eredeti hozzászólása:

Ohio?MoreLikeOhHellNo eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm usually optimistic about this country but when it comes to Jobs it's always been the absolute hellscape of a place. Getting an entry level(or even internship) IT or software job in the US is basically like being a senior level software position. I've actually looked at software jobs overseas just to compare.

Places like India just have basic HTML developers, and jobs with requirements that are "show up and dress nice". Granted they aren't paid as well as American jobs but I'd rather have a job with little requirements like them and pays 50-60K a year vs 100K a year for a job where I have to know every language under god.

I'm glad you got specific. A lot of people just gripe about "jobs bad no jobs."

The entry level IT job market is flooded. The low experience or basic codemonkey market is contract gigs and no job stability. Thus, companies are able to milk the desperate job hunters and force them to take less for more work. Stuff rolls uphill from there.

Due to telecommunications/teh interwebz, the "job market" for these sorts of positions is more-or-less "global." That means competition is going to be unfair to a certain extent for those with a higher cost of living. The product that employers are looking for is acumen and performance, so it's not reliant on production costs, materials, and shipping... Distance working is the new normal, even if it's overseas.

This is to be expected.

When the entry or even mid-level market is flooded and competition can extend globally with ease, there's a grim outlook for workers requiring more of a wage margin for basic living than those who can offer their services cheaply. (Note: There have been restraints and inducements to reduce the impact of foreign tele-workers/contractors in IT, but I don't recall them all atm.)

In an industry with global exposure, there's a natural progression of development where low-skill and entry jobs gradually evolve to be taken up by emerging industrial nations. As long as the supply and quality is sufficient, those jobs will slowly disappear in first-world industrial nations as long as trade/markets are basically normal. (No severe protectionism) This is a truism. It is how emerging nations grow their industries and how job markets evolve in a global economy reliant on human capital. (Take a look at the history of the garment/cloth industry. It's one of the most impactful examples of how such a global industry evolves and is taken up by emerging economies.)

In broad strokes, the solution for a worker confronted with such a job market is to have needed skills and capabilities that those in emerging industrial nations, who can do the work for less, can not or do not have. This is the goal of human and industrial capital in industrialized, first-world, nations...

My advice, such as it is and not being in IT... :)

1) USE your contacts. Start emailing, phone calling, getting in touch with professors/teachers, ex-coworkers, etc. The value of "word of mouth" and having an inside track to potential job openings that others may have yet to discover or be offered is invaluable. There is no such thing as "pride" when job-hunting... :) Linkedin and all that is the normal choice, but use all of your resources. (Headhunters exist if you have the skillsets to interest them.)

2) If you're young, I've seen IT worker friends take jobs they may have been overqualified for just to get certs, new experience, new exposure and resume material, etc... It happens and can pay off if it can be leveraged. Retraining is also an option... Well, if it's an option. (ie: Learn something new. :))

3) In the US, it is possible to be an entrepreneur. The US economy and its business market is one of the most robust in the world. It's never easy to be a "small business owner." But, it's easier in the US to be self-employed than just about any other nation in the world. Yes, it's a risk and many would not want that uncertainty. It's worth considering if you have a level head and a "plan" that could work. :)

4) Overseas employment opportunities exist. I can't recommend any, but if I was considering it I'd stick to Europe... Or, maybe Aussieland or the Kiwis might have something?

except for nations it pais to be protective.
-those t-shirts for example we stopped making them in the netherlands cause we made them at a loss at our wagelevel.
but importing them means a worse trade balance.. + the unemployed cost more benefits than the loss..

***if the subsidy to keep an industry alive is less than it costs to pay those higher enemployed benefits.. than it makes perfect economic sense for a goverment to keep unprofitable buisnuiisses alive with subsidy.

**and thats not even factoring the strategic interest of keeping certain productions at home.. and not be dependant on import.. I deem it idiotic our medicine production was ceized cause india can do it a few penies cheaper.. now we have shortages all the time .. ad we have to compete with global demand instead of just ramp production to whats locally needed and only selling the surpluss to others.

(this has not done enough in the past as the neolibral globaliation dream does not factor in ALL the costs)

But there is something far far worse going on.. yes in the past every time jobs were killed by industrialisation.. other jobs took their place.. those jobs needed more skill thus state funded education programs were the solution to the mass unemployment industrialisation cauased..

but the same solution does NOT work for the digital revolution thats going on.. while the aging population is somewhat hiding this fact for now the unemployment caused by digitalisation is permanent.
**we will have over 30% unemployed as a normal. as all the demand by all the people
-> the jobs most llikely to disaper are the jobs in the middle... service jobs at the bottom like cleaning lady will be to cheap to automate.. though robots will get cheaper and more of them will be replaced the absolute bottom of the market will keep a job.
->thee jobs on the top are highly specalised.. and robots capable to do their jobs do not excist (yet).. thus it is mostly in the college educated level where the most unemployement will be..

this will lead to MASSIVE social inequality as this structral unemployment will put the negociation position of labourers essentiall to null and void... leading to ever less income by wage and more by captal (aka ever less of a compagnies profits go to those working for the compagny.. while at the same time many won't even be working for a compagny.

you are also correct in that multinationals can ship away labour so any way to adress this issue must be adress globally..

but most likely we need to remove the link between labour and income.. and start tax those big cooperations far more than is done now.
and with than revenue give everybody a base income.

there just won't be work for everybody so the idea to have people rot away on crappy welfare is no longer fair... it needs to be actually something that is not suffering to live off..

already in 2010 I was saying that as things were going computers as smart as humans would be around in about 2030.. ofcourse not in every regard.. but in some certainly.. and this will cause mass unemployment..

we cannot just reduce workhours... as was done in the past when we reduced the workweek to 40 hour a week.. a 24 or even 18 hour workweek at same pay as now would give all a fair share + fair amount of free time.. but as stated the jobs that remain are highly specialised.. not all labourers will be smart enough to do them.. and to invest that much education in people just working that few hours in the first place.. would also not make much sense..

if we not want to end in a hellhole where 99.999% of revenue thanks automatisation goes to toys for the capital elite..
while 40% of people have to fight to work for 0.0000000000001 cent per hour
the goverment is either letting them all starve or transfers ever more power to the megawealthy... by lending itself into insignificance to keep the poor at least fed..

and 60% with a job.. but also not well paid.. for the gaping gap of the 40% under them means they have zero negociating position..

[Sir Seanicus, Esq.]

Learn to coal mine.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Sir Seanicus, Esq. eredeti hozzászólása:

Learn to coal mine.

is that a reference to the time machine?

where in the year 3 billion humanity had diversed into 2 spieces.. one dumbed down to stupidity.. and ugly.. derived from the working class.. and one smart and pretty derived from the capital class exploiting said other class.

(as beauti and money always married eachother those traid tended to become combined... meanwhile as excistance became so dreaded for the rest.,. anybody with intelligence amongst them would stop procreating.. or perform suicide.. leading to eventually their iq dropping to only barely above the level of apes.. to not be as aware of their horrible excistance.

[Fake]

Dutchgamer1982 eredeti hozzászólása:

Sir Seanicus, Esq. eredeti hozzászólása:

Learn to coal mine.

is that a reference to the time machine?

It's a reference to when coal miners were losing their jobs, journos told them to Learn To Code.

Fun Fact: When these journos lost their jobs, they were told to learn to code too.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Fake eredeti hozzászólása:

Dutchgamer1982 eredeti hozzászólása:

is that a reference to the time machine?

It's a reference to when coal miners were losing their jobs, journos told them to Learn To Code.

Fun Fact: When these journos lost their jobs, they were told to learn to code too.

I see..
well given how in my nation many college lvl real skills pay more than most bachalor lvl degrees. learning to mine likely is a better idea indeed;)
so few people want to learn to stack brick or tile roofs or do plumming that they charge more than most bachalor grade jobs pay per hour..