societal collapse.. your plan?

[Dutchgamer1982]

lets handwave how it came to be but lets say tomorrow all goverments in the world are just gone.
just snapped away.

overnight all currency is worthless
all documentation who owns what is gone/invalid..
all laws and lawsenforcement gone
all border controls and checks.. gone.
on a global scale.

people with the skills to do things still excist but without money and ownership.. international trade will quickly grind down.. infrastructure that provide electricity, water, heating, internet will remain as do the people with the skill to operate them but why would they without money or organisation.

you wake up in this changed world in your bed.. already some people have went to the local stores and started looting.. some people have tried ♥♥♥♥♥♥ and murder but for now peoples morals have kept the laws somewhat up.. by citycens taling care of those few.. but it remains to see if that can hold when resources run out.

whats your plan in this world?

[Netaris]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Fajita Jim:

Do you know one of the biggest of all drains of State AND Federal funding? Highway and Interstate maintenance.

You have a lot of roads in the USA, it doesn't surprise me, a lot of vast near-empty space too. It should cost a lot indeed.

[Uncle Sam]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Fajita Jim:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dutchgamer1982:

ah the time the car broke.. and it was fixed (temporately.) by a piece of cardboard... and a bit of wiring soldering on.
those modern cars with their computers.. are useless.. and cost idiotic repair bills.. since each bloody car has their own software... meaning the training hours for mechanics to learn that programming and buy the tools will be spread over very few cars..

Ah, well. I figure the era of 'personal vehicles' will probably end with me. The future is going to be all about mass efficiency, that's the only way 10+ Billion People are going to make it on this planet.

In a way kinda, still I do say that we're almost at the plateau of global population, from now on it's all the way down, automation, robotics and AI must be accelerated ASAP, same with solving the water desalination problem, same with loneliness epidemic, global mental health issues, etc.

[brain stew]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Ad Victoriam !:

I think most peoples will abandon cars and their confort for 2 wheeled vehicules, lighter, less hungry in gasoline, way easier to repair and so on.

2 wheeled vehicles? Pfft... How primitively quaint. Clearly, the future is one wheel. Feast those primordial peepers upon the majesty of an inevitable tomorrow!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukVjXFIOdvs

[livinggg]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Fajita Jim:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Ad Victoriam !:

On the other hand, knowing how to survive in nature, how to hunt, how to build the things you need yourself, aren't useless skills, it can always serve you, one way or another. But you shouldn't learn it because you think the apocalypse will happen but just because you're curious about it and/or want to be able to react if something happen (following first aid classes for example, everyone should do that).

See, these things used to be taught father-to-son. Not for SURVIVING TEH APOCOLYUPSE but because these were skills that were considered foundational to a good character.

I wish my dad would have taught me man things. I grew up around all women, I was taught how to dance and be pretty. Nothing wrong with that stuff when you have a functioning society, but I'll probably just curl up and die should I ever need to survive off the Earth.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Fajita Jim:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Ad Victoriam !:

I think most peoples will abandon cars and their confort for 2 wheeled vehicules, lighter, less hungry in gasoline, way easier to repair and so on. I plan on buying one myself btw. But I don't really believe in these big plans of "end of personnal vehicles", peoples still want to posses their own things and don't want to rent everything they use.

Do you know one of the biggest of all drains of State AND Federal funding? Highway and Interstate maintenance.

If society collapses.. fuel will be effectively gone.
as global markets collapse, so no oil get shipped, refined etc.

road maintenance will end too without state.. and unlike the good roman roads that could be used for over 1000 years without maintenance.. our asfalt roads will break down quickly..

petrol spoils.. so within a year after collapse all petrol using devices are useless junk anyway.

electric devices might last 5-10 years after the collapse.. there are enough solar panels on roofs of houses.. that you might jerryrig some charging device.. but those panels last usually 20 years.. and thats when they are brand new.. and that car battery won't last forever either so when it's gone it's gone..

diesel engines likely will be the longest running.. they can be converted to run on vegetable oil.. while ofcourse most people will have 0 knowledge how to obtain that.. it is possible to farm seeds for oil.. so limited use of diesel engnes can remain.. ofcourse even those engines eventually break down.. but they easely can last 50 years...

steam engines.. those can last longer.. as they basicly will accept any fuel source that burns..
ofcourse the knowledge to repair them let alone build them is long since gone.. but those who manage to get acces to an old steamcar.. or train.. likely will keep mobility going for a solid 200 years...

for most.. it be a reversal to litteral horse power..

bikes will work.. thesimpler the better..
an 100 year old dutch bike is made of iron.. (and that won't break or bend easely) and can relatively easely be mended.. + it's lights are powered by a simple mechanical dynamo.
(ofcourse stocks of lightbulbs for them eventually run out but at least they don't sp
oil)
in ww2 when rubber ran out they were fitted with wooden tires.. uncomfortable but it worked..

modern bikes however have way to many gears.. to many plastic parts. that will break and cannot be repairds.. . are made of aluminium that bends and breaks way to easely.. if you fit those out with wooden tires they bend and break.
they have lights that work on batteries that quickly will run out.. and leds that break far quicker than old lightbulbs..
they last perhaps 2 decades if well maintained but the old clunklers just keep going centuries..
-
and thats if it is a normal bike.. electric bikes won't function without charge.. so those be trash much faster..

for most retuning to horse and oxen power with smithing bikes and carriages.. would be the best bet.. but good luck findig people with those skills when society is starving;)

[Bastard Emperor]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dutchgamer1982:

lets handwave how it came to be but lets say tomorrow all goverments in the world are just gone.
just snapped away.

Crack open a bottle of Champagne and light a cigar, it's time for true human freedom to prevail.

[nohuman]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Ad Victoriam !:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Fajita Jim:

Do you know one of the biggest of all drains of State AND Federal funding? Highway and Interstate maintenance.

You have a lot of roads in the USA, it doesn't surprise me, a lot of vast near-empty space too. It should cost a lot indeed.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Main-Roads.html

[MEGA MAN]

"yes"

[Talby]

I am inspired to watch the Mad Max series again, except for thunderdome (that was bunk)...

[MEGA MAN]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Talby:

I am inspired to watch the Mad Max series again, except for thunderdome (that was bunk)...

thunderdome is the best one imo

[Fajita Jim]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dutchgamer1982:

for most retuning to horse and oxen power with smithing bikes and carriages.. would be the best bet.. but good luck findig people with those skills when society is starving;)

Small Volt society. Think ARM instead of X86. That kind of efficiency. You can make chemical batteries with a high school understanding of chemistry.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Fajita Jim:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dutchgamer1982:

for most retuning to horse and oxen power with smithing bikes and carriages.. would be the best bet.. but good luck findig people with those skills when society is starving;)

Small Volt society. Think ARM instead of X86. That kind of efficiency. You can make chemical batteries with a high school understanding of chemistry.

as if you will have chip producing capacities in a collapsed society;)

you might be able to scavange some old tech.. for a while.. until they all break down.. but the whole global trade involved in the chain to make those chips.. it won't excsit in a collapsed world.

I skip that phase and would opt to go straight to living preindustrial as thats much better suited for a small self sufficient colony.

a few 100 people... say 300..
-some goats (most efficient way to get milk, and wool)
-some chickens (most efficient way to get meat and eggs)
-some bees (only realistic source of sugar and cadles)
-a food forest with various berries, nuts and herbs that will not take maintenance.
-a vegetable garden with in in at least :
***potatoes (low work, high nutricion and easy to reuse as seed)
***grains (less efficient that potato but more reliable against diseases)
***beans (low work, high nutricioun and easy to reuse as seed)
***garlic (harder to get good harvest from in our climate, but much easier to get seed from than onions
***pumkins, cumcumber, squash -> easy to grow and while drying seeds need some skill, its fairly easy..
****radishes.. -> slighly harder to get seed from.. but still fairly easy
***onions -> while good harvest, getting onions to produce seed than grow seed into hatclings and those into new onions is much harder.
***brassica and lettuche -> it's more a gamble to get good seed for next year.. and like onions you need to hatch seperate before planting..
+ some managed woodlands that you grow stuff like oak, hazel, willow and elm, for your wood needs

you also will need at least 1 person that serves as this small villages blacksmith.. metal can pretty much be rewrought so even without much new import.. having one helps heaps

also at least 1 woodworker... somebody will need to craft the handles for those tools, make the yokes, the beams for houses, and mills all that stuff..

likely another woodworker for furniture and such...

it would not hurt to have also somebody thats a halve decent medieval construction worker.. no modern tools.. but handtools, clay, wattle and dorp.. straw roofing that kind of skills.

for clothing you likely will need 3.. a tanner.. a spinster/weaver and finally a seemstress.

teaching will likely happen by learning basic reading and writing to children until 10.. after whichj they will need to start working learning one of the professions from the older ones..

you will need for safety a few who specialise in fighting techniques.. + a shed of stored spears and such + militia drills to assist them..

rest of population likely will work as farmer..

and to keep everybody sane.. we likely will have communal meals and church services dayly..

[Fajita Jim]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dutchgamer1982:

as if you will have chip producing capacities in a collapsed society;)

you might be able to scavange some old tech.. for a while..

Generations. Dude, that ♥♥♥♥ is everywhere. Even my dishwasher can run Doom. You're not going to be playing PC games, you're going to be running water pumps and power distribution stations, eventually.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Fajita Jim:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dutchgamer1982:

as if you will have chip producing capacities in a collapsed society;)

you might be able to scavange some old tech.. for a while..

Generations. Dude, that ♥♥♥♥ is everywhere. Even my dishwasher can run Doom. You're not going to be playing PC games, you're going to be running water pumps and power distribution stations, eventually.

no need.. I will just craft candles from beewax.. and operate saw and flormills that can be build with wooden wheels... and some stonework..

water filtration : a piece of cloth.. with fine sand.. rough sand.. ash from burned wood.,. small stones, large stones... will work quite well. some boiling afterwards... and that water is good to go.

making vinnagar and alchol is also fairly low tech.. and adding some of that to water also kills off much of the bacteria..

basicly I would just opt to set up a late medieval town.. using modern knowledge of sanitation.. but using no electronics.

with a bit of knowhow of steam power and mechanics.. some rigged devices that are steampowered likely will be crafted... and while one can craft a watermill with some magnets and thus craft a crudge electric producing device.. crafting the items to use that with is much harder.. lightbulbs is doable.. perhaps we get there eventually but oil lamps and candles are just so much easier to rely on at first.

[Fajita Jim]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dutchgamer1982:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Fajita Jim:

Generations. Dude, that ♥♥♥♥ is everywhere. Even my dishwasher can run Doom. You're not going to be playing PC games, you're going to be running water pumps and power distribution stations, eventually.

no need.. I will just craft candles from beewax.. and operate saw and flormills that can be build with wooden wheels... and some stonework..

water filtration : a piece of cloth.. with fine sand.. rough sand.. ash from burned wood.,. small stones, large stones... will work quite well. some boiling afterwards... and that water is good to go.

making vinnagar and alchol is also fairly low tech.. and adding some of that to water also kills off much of the bacteria..

You're going to want a zero-sum society pretty quickly. You're going to need some industrialization to do that.

If a major world event killed off 5 billion people, there's going to be a lot of things going unused for a very, very long time. The wise would procure and utilize what they can as efficiently as possible.

A low-volt post-society is very doable, and for a very long time. Hell, one of those big cargo ships can carry like 200 Walmarts at once. Imagine securing one of those for local prosperity.