societal collapse.. your plan?

[Dutchgamer1982]

lets handwave how it came to be but lets say tomorrow all goverments in the world are just gone.
just snapped away.

overnight all currency is worthless
all documentation who owns what is gone/invalid..
all laws and lawsenforcement gone
all border controls and checks.. gone.
on a global scale.

people with the skills to do things still excist but without money and ownership.. international trade will quickly grind down.. infrastructure that provide electricity, water, heating, internet will remain as do the people with the skill to operate them but why would they without money or organisation.

you wake up in this changed world in your bed.. already some people have went to the local stores and started looting.. some people have tried raping and murder but for now peoples morals have kept the laws somewhat up.. by citycens taling care of those few.. but it remains to see if that can hold when resources run out.

whats your plan in this world?

[Raoul]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

infrastructure that provide electricity, water, heating, internet will remain as do the people with the skill to operate them but why would they without money or organisation.

Wouldn't doing these things fulfil all selfish and social reasons for doing so.. and why can't people in smaller communities organise again?

[Pierce Dalton]

Enjoy the ride to hell. At least I won't be bored.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Raoul:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

infrastructure that provide electricity, water, heating, internet will remain as do the people with the skill to operate them but why would they without money or organisation.

Wouldn't doing these things fulfil all selfish and social reasons for doing so.. and why can't people in smaller communities organise again?

oh people can totally organise..in smaller groups.

and without ownership workers in a factory powerplant or such seizing that asset and use it as their new base.. totally likely..

but do we all like our fellow workers?

and can those workers :
agree on laws in that group.
agree on sharing things communal or by some other sharing method..
apoint protectors who serve as army vs outside raiders and police vs inside lawbreakers..

than there is how much will you let into your group.
larger groups offer more force but are harder to form and keep order inside.. or prevent to turn exploitive.. smaller groups are easier and more united but may lack the force to protect against outside treads.

and yes some altruistic people might just keep doing their job unpaid or hooe people will reward them.

but even if you get your small local powerplant or factory running.. how are you getting new fuel and materials without global trade?
and how to barter with your power.. no money so cannot get paid + it would mean venturing outside the safety of your base to get paid..
factories could trade at the gate but that would massively reduce customers + vast stocks of product make you a prime looting target.

[nohuman]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από EnÐΩGeÑe§¡§:

Anyone smart enough to have plans wouldn't be blabbing them in a public forum.

why? I would want to keep society and order.. rebuild.
and bouncing off others ideas how can help in such a situation.

basicly if society falls my mind goes :
1 how to not get killed
2 how to preserve as much knowledge for posterity
3 how to preserve as much order as possible
4 how to rebuild and recivilize the fallen lands from that preserved seed.

it likely would mean some sort of cloister life.. where scolars remain in a time the rest of the world falls to warlords.

https://youtu.be/-YjOI6nkjKo

[Dutchgamer1982]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από EnÐΩGeÑe§¡§:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

why? I would want to keep society and order.. rebuild.
and bouncing off others ideas how can help in such a situation.

basicly if society falls my mind goes :
1 how to not get killed
2 how to preserve as much knowledge for posterity
3 how to preserve as much order as possible
4 how to rebuild and recivilize the fallen lands from that preserved seed.

it likely would mean some sort of cloister life.. where scolars remain in a time the rest of the world falls to warlords.

https://youtu.be/-YjOI6nkjKo

basicly yes.. but less apocalyptic.
-as in my model no bombs would have fallen.. so that all of the world a desert thing.. would not excist. and books would not be burned...

and like in that movie some forms of organisation would arise/remain (like the oil platform, that town, and the robber gangs)

those robber gangs would not exist long though.. look at history,

you always had civilized farmer and the wild cattledriving hordes in the mountains..
those in the valleys would have better lives... but grow more docile (as specialised jobs means less harsh lives and less time spend on learning combat skills)

those on the mountain tops and wilderness would remain tough.. and invade..
but every raider.. from huns, to mongols, to pick your group.. eventually conquered the valley and than settled.. and than that settled life changed them.. softened them.. until another group came..

the way civilization defended was by using their higher technology and manpower..
first to build walls around city's the city states of old..
-next to use their higher food output and tech to produce soldiers.. horses were expensive.. only societies with a massive food surplus could afford them.. once you got chariots.. those invading hordes had no more chance.
**the wild hores than trained bigger horses and became horse riders.. they could still not take over city's but certainly raid farms..
-next it was metals.. bronze trade was a complex trade network and metalurgy needed more complex social structures.. + conscription of larger population ment that these first nations (no more than a few citystates combined into early coalitions) could keep those hordes even better out)
-than composite bows elimitnated that advantage
**at which societies invented knights and elite warriors.. (feudalism) professional soldiers that only organised nations could afford to keep the barbarians out..

and so on..
society always has been a struggle between the barbarian cattledrivers on the fringes and the civilized farmers..

No society ever LIVED of raiding.. cattledrivers will raid.. as they have to way to expend into and are harsh so strong warriors.. in times when the society is strong they will trade and offer service as soliders.. in times when society is weak they will raid and take what they want.

ofcourse many medieval kingdroms arose from a raiding-rapist bandits posing as kings.
step 1 was being paid off not to raid and plunder a while you are fine.. with that cause plenty other regions to plunder + risk free booty.
step 2 is you discover that actually acting maffia boss and charging everybody protection money is MUCH more lucrative than plundering, and no risk of being killed,
step 3 at some point you figure it be more lucrative if you owned these things more directly..
so you invade but let the compagnies intact.. all you do is granting your most reliable "family members" ownership of these compagnies.. provided they give you a cut., "under new managment.
and so feudalism started...

likely something similair will happen if society fails... today.

[gza]

My plan so far consists of having a go bag handy. I'll leave the rest to fate.

[brain stew]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

me : I would relish at the chance to grab land and farm it.

Yeah, that kinda sounds like a good plan actually. I'm gonna relish too. In fact, I'm gonna start relishing right now to get a head start.

[Raoul]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

oh people can totally organise..in smaller groups.

Well at least we agree on that otherwise humanity as we know it wouldn't exist..

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

and without ownership workers in a factory powerplant or such seizing that asset and use it as their new base.. totally likely..

but do we all like our fellow workers?

and can those workers :
agree on laws in that group.
agree on sharing things communal or by some other sharing method..
apoint protectors who serve as army vs outside raiders and police vs inside lawbreakers..

When you say without ownership, do you mean like for example 1 owner? Cause I don't see why anything would stop working or be worse off by sharing ownership of the production of anything with its workers and they'd probably have more incentive to do the work.

People in closer knit communities have better communion between themselves to resolve issues but I'd agree that there will always be drama. Can they agree on things like laws and rules etc etc.. yes people tend to agree on good outcomes for themselves and there communities. It again fulfils that selfish and social reasons for doing so, it's a win win in most circumstances.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

but even if you get your small local powerplant or factory running.. how are you getting new fuel and materials without global trade?
and how to barter with your power.. no money so cannot get paid + it would mean venturing outside the safety of your base to get paid..
factories could trade at the gate but that would massively reduce customers + vast stocks of product make you a prime looting target.

Well maybe with the internet/radio running you can do trade and deal with whatever challenges you face in the logistics side of things too.

Okay for some reason I didn't realise you'd have to live and sleep inside a nuclear power plant lol.. so you can't leave the building out of fear of getting killed now?.. It sounds like post apocalyptic dystopian fiction. Are there zombies too cause this sounds like walking dead?

[Dutchgamer1982]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Raoul:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

oh people can totally organise..in smaller groups.

Well at least we agree on that otherwise humanity as we know it wouldn't exist..

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

and without ownership workers in a factory powerplant or such seizing that asset and use it as their new base.. totally likely..

but do we all like our fellow workers?

and can those workers :
agree on laws in that group.
agree on sharing things communal or by some other sharing method..
apoint protectors who serve as army vs outside raiders and police vs inside lawbreakers..

When you say without ownership, do you mean like for example 1 owner? Cause I don't see why anything would stop working or be worse off by sharing ownership of the production of anything with its workers and they'd probably have more incentive to do the work.

People in closer knit communities have better communion between themselves to resolve issues but I'd agree that there will always be drama. Can they agree on things like laws and rules etc etc.. yes people tend to agree on good outcomes for themselves and there communities. It again fulfils that selfish and social reasons for doing so, it's a win win in most circumstances.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

but even if you get your small local powerplant or factory running.. how are you getting new fuel and materials without global trade?
and how to barter with your power.. no money so cannot get paid + it would mean venturing outside the safety of your base to get paid..
factories could trade at the gate but that would massively reduce customers + vast stocks of product make you a prime looting target.

Well maybe with the internet/radio running you can do trade and you can trade with whatever challenges you face in the logistics side of things too.

Okay for some reason I didn't realise you'd have to live and sleep inside a nuclear power plant lol.. so you can't leave the building out of fear of getting killed now?.. It sounds like post apocalyptic dystopian fiction. Are there zombies too cause this sounds like walking dead?

there is no ownership.
basicly there is violence to take things and violence to keep others from taking things.

the state now is the greatest violence force.. it enforces who can take what.
we not own anything our state does.. and it with violence sets the rules for us to get acces.
it is no different that in a feudal system.
if the goverment is gone like in my op than all ownership is gone too.
for the force that was forcing that is gone.

there would be no lawyer no paper battle to fight no police or army to call if I just took stuff.
or denied you taking stuff.
you would need violence to take stuff and prevent others from taking it.

groups can apply more violence than individuals.. but in a dog eat dog world larger groups also mean more people who could backstab you.

most likely no 1 person would owm sonething like a factory.. it would take many people to protect it against raiders & keep it running and if 1 would get greedy the rest would kill him. so you would need natural charisma to get people to work together and follow your lead..

and well society collapsed.
no money.. how will you get the goods from all over the world to come to you to keep your plant running without method to pay?
many people be starving and needing of those shipments so they be raided before ariving by other groups.
basicly you likely form tribes of a few 100 but distrust anybody outside.. you would not cross into their land..

well now your nuclear plant.. it needs quite a lot of infrasrructure to keep running.. at quite a distance unlikely that will all keep running..
and even if it did.. how will you incentivice the people the power goes to to provide you stuff? sure you can cut a powerline to an entire neighbourhood but only those directly bordering you..
and you cannot control individual households.

so basicly it be nationstate powerplant making treaties with nationstates around it.. to provide x of y type goods every z weeks.. for you to not cut their powerline..

with you hoping non of them gets so big that they can just pressure you in giving the power for free as tribute.. or else they invade and murder you..

how will you protect those shipments w

[Tiberius]

The world will be just fine, cos currency has always been worthless. You dont eat money.

We prolly will revert back to bartering system, then we develop a new currency to simplify the bartering process

[Hammer Of Evil]

i shall begin the imperium of man

[SÜM1 i§IN myHead!!!]

A lot of city folks will be screwed, and a lot of country folks will be overrun.
It'll be utmost CHAOS.

those in long-term bunkers are gonna be the most safe.
Either way good luck producing enough food just for you &/or your family without running empty or getting raided.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

Society is already on its way to collapse due to a number of issues including AI and Social Media.

[Raoul]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

there is no ownership.
basicly there is violence to take things and violence to keep others from taking things.

the state now is the greatest violence force.. it enforces who can take what.
we not own anything our state does.. and it with violence sets the rules for us to get acces.
it is no different that in a feudal system.
if the goverment is gone like in my op than all ownership is gone too.
for the force that was forcing that is gone.

If I understand correctly what your saying that capitalism is basically a modernised version of feudalism.. and if so then are you also saying that violence and taking things especially resources by force doesn't exist in it?

If you take something by force does that mean you own it or not, cause those early era vikings would be scared s***less if they saw the weapons we have now xd

[Voroff]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dutchgamer1982:

whats your plan in this world?

Rebuild. What else could be morally tenable ?