Why do so many americans live paycheck to paycheck despite high salaries and resonable cost of living?

[Will be deleted]

Some seems to say that over half americans, maybe up to 60-70% live paycheck to paycheck including many with salaries above $100k.

Yet even including things like cars, healthcare and student debt americans probably come ahead people of other countries due to higher wages and lower taxes and some things like houses even seems cheaper in USA than peer countries.

It do seems to me that americans live more extravegant than people in peer countries but is that the reason for financial struggle?

[ナルゴ]

1.) Low financial education
2.) High cost of living
People in China live frugally. 1/4 or 1/3 of income is immediately sent to savings or investments and aren't touched. Zero based budgeting to make sure every single penny of the monthly income is accounted for. Young adults try invest into real estate asap

[Arkham99]

Publicado originalmente por Will be deleted:

Publicado originalmente por Arkham99:

Canada where it's at... we get taxed to hell like anyone else but the Quality of Living makes it worth it...:-)

Drawback is you won't get USA level of salaries or income, paying like $100k to somebody in europe would probably pay like $20-30k more in taxes than in USA (including hidden taxes), so $40-50k vs $70k after taxes and even more dramatically at higher salaries. Although you maybe get some of that money back in retirement so it may be $40-50k + 10k in retirement savings vs $70k

Also this is kinda why USA have such bad inequality and welfare.

one thing I don't understand is why the U.S. doesn't follow Canada's model of Highly Taxed "free radicals" (for lack of a better term)... Cigarettes & Alcohol prices are mostly tax, as is Cannabis sales... this is one of the most lucrative revenue streams for the government... yes, those who smoke and drink complain but it is a "voluntary tax" that you're paying... the side effect is that Canadians cut down on these expensive habits that don't exactly promote good health...:-)

[Dutchgamer1982]

Publicado originalmente por Will be deleted:

Publicado originalmente por Arkham99:

Canada where it's at... we get taxed to hell like anyone else but the Quality of Living makes it worth it...:-)

Drawback is you won't get USA level of salaries or income, paying like $100k to somebody in europe would probably pay like $20-30k more in taxes than in USA (including hidden taxes), so $40-50k vs $70k after taxes and even more dramatically at higher salaries. Although you maybe get some of that money back in retirement so it may be $40-50k + 10k in retirement savings vs $70k

Also this is kinda why USA have such bad inequality and welfare.

ok lets see....
100.000 usd income taxed in netherlands

thats 92462 euro
I rpesume no savings, owned house , divident from investment or such things that would be added to your taxable income.
jhust a flat wage no other sources to keep it simple.

than your taxes :
10.570 taxfree (taxfree alowed amount)
75.518 taxed at 36.97% = 27919 euro of taxes
6374 taxed at 49.5% = 3155 euro of taxes

total taxes : 31074 euro
remaining income after taxes : 61388 euro
(which converts to 66357 dollar

so you loose on such an income about a third to income tax.

(used to be more.. but sadly goverment has merged the lowest 2 taxbrackets and delited the higest one of 60%)

======
in usa earning 100k. I cannot find state tax numbers but federal income tax :

in usa :
if you earn 100.000 usd

11600 is taxed at 10% (1160 in taxes)
35550 is taxed at 12% (4266 in taxes)
52850 is taxed at 22% (11627 in taxes)

total taxes : 17053 usd
left after taxes : 82947 dollar

[xjulep]

Publicado originalmente por atomicgirl:

Publicado originalmente por xjulep:

Astronomically high rent because of the parasite class. Taxes have very little impact. I pay about 0.7 of my income in rent. Which is insane. Some parasite that doesn’t work takes 70¢ off every $ I make as a reward for hoarding property.

Hahaha, someone gaslit by propaganda cooked up by Big Real Estate. Yes, keep believing that the parasite class is why rents are high, not because of the tens of millions of dollars worth in private property that was bought up, destroyed or left vacant by hedge funds, AirBnBs, foreign investors and property flippers. This stuff I'm talking about is not even some conspiracy theory. It's been an open secret for years.

When I say “parasite” I mean all non proletarians

[Will be deleted]

Publicado originalmente por Dutchgamer1982:

Publicado originalmente por Will be deleted:

Drawback is you won't get USA level of salaries or income, paying like $100k to somebody in europe would probably pay like $20-30k more in taxes than in USA (including hidden taxes), so $40-50k vs $70k after taxes and even more dramatically at higher salaries. Although you maybe get some of that money back in retirement so it may be $40-50k + 10k in retirement savings vs $70k

Also this is kinda why USA have such bad inequality and welfare.

ok lets see....
100.000 usd income taxed in netherlands

thats 92462 euro
I rpesume no savings, owned house , divident from investment or such things that would be added to your taxable income.
jhust a flat wage no other sources to keep it simple.

than your taxes :
10.570 taxfree (taxfree alowed amount)
75.518 taxed at 36.97% = 27919 euro of taxes
6374 taxed at 49.5% = 3155 euro of taxes

total taxes : 31074 euro
remaining income after taxes : 61388 euro
(which converts to 66357 dollar

so you loose on such an income about a third to income tax.

(used to be more.. but sadly goverment has merged the lowest 2 taxbrackets and delited the higest one of 60%)

I got much lower number than that, like about $4000 per month after all taxes including hidden ones, which is $48 000 a year for my country.

[Dutchgamer1982]

so yeah,... a person earning exactly 100k usd in usd before fedaral tax.. has an after tax income thats 25% higher than if you in the netherlands had converted in euro at current exchange rate the exact same pre-taxes 100k usd income

than again such incomes are INSANELY rare in netherlands. 2% of working people (and ofcourse not all work) have an salary of 100k of more in usa that is 29%

now take into account that the dutch pretax income is on average 44k euro while that of usa is only 37.5k usd (33k euro)

so on average a dutch person earns 33% more than an american, despite 100k+ incomes being so much rmore rare... and while yes we may pay a lot more tax.. our on average higher income does make up for that.. also note. 100k is an very high income that thus has a higher than most tax %. on average on it..

I may just be a teacher earning 50-ish k a year...
and could earn a lot more had I went another sector (which I could do given I am mensa2.. but I do what I love to do.. not whats most profitable)

still in usa I could not afford to teach.. there teachers are paid what 21k usd or something ridiculous like that...

[bluesky66621]

Publicado originalmente por Eld3r:

Publicado originalmente por bluesky66621:

I am actually living in that country. So I have first hand knowledge and no it is not ♥♥♥♥. It you is the problem here. Stop stalking me. You know I am right.

i recall back in the mid 90s i wanted to get a cellphone for my wife and verizon wanted to run a credit check so they wanted my social security number

i said nah there has to be another way and they offered to have me deposit $600 instead of a credit check

a year after getting the phone i went to get the deposit back and found they ran a credit check anyway

i have had great credit for so long that i don't know what it is like to try to survive without it

I agree. I dont know why these users keep commenting me and shooting me down instead just leave me alone. He already blocked. Report him

[Dutchgamer1982]

Publicado originalmente por Eld3r:

Publicado originalmente por Dutchgamer1982:

still in usa I could not afford to teach.. there teachers are paid what 21k usd or something ridiculous like that...

i have an in-law making +$70k and a friend making +$100k as teachers (middle school and high school)

I'm a master and doctoral grade educated with now 15 years experience physics and religious studies teacher (who ocationally assists with economics and math lessons when those teachers have a day off)

highschool... and as stated just made this year above 50k... before I was still in the 40s..
quite normal wages here..

and better than most... it's above median income meaning I earn more than halve of the population does.

sure I am smarter than 99.99% of population is IQ wise and better educated than 70% of them is.. but well... I am satisfied where I am at... I have plenty to live from.

ok I would like to own a house... thats the one snag.. but without a partner with also an income you can forget that anyway on ANY income in this market.

[Original Cast Recording]

A lot of people assume once they're making X amount of money, they will always make that much or more. Their debts are incurred based on that belief.

And of course, some people are just bad with money.

And of course, some things experience price hikes more than others; not everything goes according to quoted inflation rates.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Publicado originalmente por Eld3r:

Publicado originalmente por Dutchgamer1982:

I'm a master and doctoral grade educated with now 15 years experience physics and religious studies teacher (who ocationally assists with economics and math lessons when those teachers have a day off)

highschool... and as stated just made this year above 50k... before I was still in the 40s..
quite normal wages here..

come to the US?

absolutely not.
1 I dislike the us
2 I have proftit from free education It's only fair I also pay back to my society.

but I admit I have considered norway.. who has not privatised many of the things we have and thus have basicly more the welfare as we USED to have 30 years ago.
on top of that their houses are much more affordable (as in only a third the price of in my nation

[GunsForBucks]

I suppose you could ignore the whole thing about it being more expensive to rent then a mortgage.

And most young couples can't start off buying a house. Seen the rates lately? I think the plan is to force people out of houses eventually and into 15 min prisons.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Publicado originalmente por GunsForBucks:

I suppose you could ignore the whole thing about it being more expensive to rent then a mortgage.

And most young couples can't start off buying a house. Seen the rates lately? I think the plan is to force people out of houses eventually and into 15 min prisons.

2 things that might scare me away from my nation despite my insane nationality

1 the insane house prices (when I finally find a wife I want no longer a crappy flat.. I want a proper terraced house with rooms for the kids.. in todays market thats going to be really tough.. just look at what they ask in the netherlands...

2 the whole pushing woke agenda... I really hate the while rainbowflag ideology thats basicly turned into law, forcefed trough public education and all that.. and my nation not allows homeschooling.

but as stated I am quite nationalistic so just "I earn more overthere" does not entice me to go.. THIS nation allowed me this position so THIS nation also deserves my labour and taxes.. there is already a shortage of teachers as is.

[atomicgirl]

Publicado originalmente por Eld3r:

Publicado originalmente por atomicgirl:

It's not just a financial literacy problem. It's also cultural one. A large part of what's driving CC debt is class consciousness. There's still a stigma attached to not looking and acting middle class, so people who can't afford that lifestyle use CC to fill in the gap. I've seen this problem more times than I can count. For example, you can't really have a cheap pay-as-you-go dumbphone, which would save people well over $100 a year in phone fees. You have to have an expensive Samsung or iPhone. Otherwise, you have an "Obamaphone" or must be on welfare.

The list goes on and on, especially when it comes to clothing and cosmetics. The poorer the person, the worst the class consciousness is and the more they'll use CC debt to make it look like they've made it.

i feel like what you have outlined is still part of discipline

we need to learn to avoid spending money we don't have

It's not a discipline issue if specific types of people are bombarded with messages that they're low class, disgusting pieces of [fill in the ethnic or class slur] unless they own certain things or look a certain way. I've seen this problem play out so many times with different groups throughout the years. Someone could be the most disciplined person on the planet but all that discipline goes out the window if they spent years being written off as trash just because they don't dress or live like a middle class sitcom family.

[Original Cast Recording]

Publicado originalmente por NoMoreUnderscores():

A lot of people assume once they're making X amount of money, they will always make that much or more. Their debts are incurred based on that belief.

And of course, some people are just bad with money.

And of course, some things experience price hikes more than others; not everything goes according to quoted inflation rates.

Also, if a person actually is dumping money into a retirement account every pay period, they might feel like they're living "paycheck to paycheck," because in the short term they are. They might not even consider that money to be available for emergencies. Such a person might answer certain survey questions the same way as someone who doesn't make enough to save.

[Will be deleted]

Publicado originalmente por Eld3r:

Publicado originalmente por atomicgirl:

It's not a discipline issue if specific types of people are bombarded with messages that they're low class, disgusting pieces of [fill in the ethnic or class slur] unless they own certain things or look a certain way. I've seen this problem play out so many times with different groups throughout the years. Someone could be the most disciplined person on the planet but all that discipline goes out the window if they spent years being written off as trash just because they don't dress or live like a middle class sitcom family.

well, i come from that low class place and turned it around

but that is just one case, of course

Is it particular hard to get out of the lower class?