Why do so many americans live paycheck to paycheck despite high salaries and resonable cost of living?

[Will be deleted]

Some seems to say that over half americans, maybe up to 60-70% live paycheck to paycheck including many with salaries above $100k.

Yet even including things like cars, healthcare and student debt americans probably come ahead people of other countries due to higher wages and lower taxes and some things like houses even seems cheaper in USA than peer countries.

It do seems to me that americans live more extravegant than people in peer countries but is that the reason for financial struggle?

[Dutchgamer1982]

bluesky66621 a écrit :

atomicgirl a écrit :

It's because of credit cards.

I don't know how it was allowed, but credit card companies were all over college campuses back in the 1990s handing out credit cards to kids like crazy, telling them that they needed to build up their credit score. These people learned to spend beyond their means, so are slaves to debt.

Credit cards were a thing for over 80 years. The difference is the shift of banking system that forcing everyone to be on credit if you want to buy a house, a car, hell even get a job. Credit report is a major thing for Americans. Without credit score, one would be less than nothing. If you want services then they look at your credit report if you qualify for services.

Without a credit score, you cannot even get a rental apartment. That's how bad Americans are now.

I bet if a person lived like a standard dutchman.. al his live having paid all in cash.. only having a debitcard.. and having saved 30k by the time hes 30..

and than would want a morgage without ever having lend a cent in his life...
would hear NO in usa

such a being who actually did all correct would likely be seen as total alien to americans;)

(btw that same dutchman would hear NO on that morgage here to...after house prices have risen 3x faster than wages for like 70 years now... we are at a point that even 2 full time median incomes combined aint enough to pay what the averege house sells for.

2 in 3 houses are bought by investment funds to rent out to the same people that they outbid on.
for you cant get a morgage for 1200 a month, 30 year, 10 year fixed rate, inclusive paying off the full amount in 30 years.
. but you are allowed to pay 2000 rent on your 3000 a month income on that same property.

[Utiviroo]

The economy is designed around infinite money production, its on purpose that you have to always work and never retire, the goal being no one should hoard wealth, it should always be moving.

So its turned things into a bit of a monster/nightmare.

Those that hoard wealth, escape the game loop. Those that don't, trapped, where they want them, thus the economy is self perpetuating, can't have the populace escape containment and end the economy.

[Unexpected]

the cost of living is so unstable that the average american really cannot afford to exist even if salaries are higher than most other countries. have you seen the housing market these days?

[Ulfrinn]

Give anyone more money per month, they'll find more things per month to spend it on.

[Ulfrinn]

Dutchgamer1982 a écrit :

bluesky66621 a écrit :

Credit cards were a thing for over 80 years. The difference is the shift of banking system that forcing everyone to be on credit if you want to buy a house, a car, hell even get a job. Credit report is a major thing for Americans. Without credit score, one would be less than nothing. If you want services then they look at your credit report if you qualify for services.

Without a credit score, you cannot even get a rental apartment. That's how bad Americans are now.

I bet if a person lived like a standard dutchman.. al his live having paid all in cash.. only having a debitcard.. and having saved 30k by the time hes 30..

and than would want a morgage without ever having lend a cent in his life...
would hear NO in usa

such a being who actually did all correct would likely be seen as total alien to americans;)

(btw that same dutchman would hear NO on that morgage here to...after house prices have risen 3x faster than wages for like 70 years now... we are at a point that even 2 full time median incomes combined aint enough to pay what the averege house sells for.

2 in 3 houses are bought by investment funds to rent out to the same people that they outbid on.
for you cant get a morgage for 1200 a month, 30 year, 10 year fixed rate, inclusive paying off the full amount in 30 years.
. but you are allowed to pay 2000 rent on your 3000 a month income on that same property.

You make a lot of ridiculous, and unfounded generalizations. Most Americans I know don't do anything on credit.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Unexpected a écrit :

the cost of living is so unstable that the average american really cannot afford to exist even if salaries are higher than most other countries. have you seen the housing market these days?

have you seen the one in the netherlands?

over 200.000 houses less than are needed on a pop of 17.2 million and about 6.7 millkion households

and the pRICE of houses so insane that even people with double income and mastergrades cannot afford the house their parents in the 90s could buy on minimumwage.

3 mayor factors that have made it So bad recently

1 the deciesion of our ^%^%&^ neoliberal goverment to allow foreign invesstors on our renting market (before they were banned)

2 the adding of a rent tax (meaning a percentage of rent collected by landlords now has to be given to the goverment, this has crippled the old sociaal housing organisation who gnerally had small margins and cannot raise wages as minimumincomes have a rent ceiling.. thus all the money they used to use to maintain and add to their for rent portfolio now is taken.

3 the climatelaws.. idioc emissionlaws that basicly limit how much there can be build at all in a year and co2 neutral demands on each house making building them more costly and complex

thats the RECENT crisis..
but other causes go further back..

-the strict zoning of LAND (basicly you can;t just buy land and build on it.. all land has earmarked whether it is for housing & commerce OR heavy industry OR farmland.. and only the goverment can chance a zone.. the bureacracy surrounding this +speculation has driven ip costs.. most the value of a house is the land as building houses land is worth many many times what farmland is.. so speculatives buying farmland sitting on it for decades hoping the city deciedes it becomes designated buildingland.. it not helps.

-insufficient funding of construction.. duriong the 2008 crisis and during covid constructionworkers were not aided well.. thus a lot sought unemployment elsewhere.. and when they later were needed there were non to be found.. the goverment could cover these slow periodss with ordering more projects than and less outside themn.. but they have failed to do so.

-the ending of a succesfull vinex program.. in the 60s to 90s.. the state poured billions into building terraced houses.. well designed mixed use areas with schools hops some houses sold some apartment.. etc.. these new neighbourhoods still are some of the most livable places.. and building them on that scale really helped making a dent in the shortage of houses there hardly was any shortage left in 1990.. thanks to 30 years of building like that.
**project also costed next to nothing.. as the land was bought as farmland and about 30% of houses was sold.. that covered all the costs of the entire project.

-the privatisation of renting.. renting in my country was managed by state organisation called "housing organsations" these were run effecient.. and had all internal.. own construction workers to build more houses.. own maintenance man.. and they had to rent out at quite low rents.. while still funding the whole thing from these rents..
they did so VERY succesfully.. many of the vinexhouses of those projects were given to them to manage..
but they were again neoliberal privatised early 2000s.. and this ment all the internal stuff was gotten rid of and now all works with external contractors that ar emuch more expensive and worse in quality.. while the layer and wages of management have grown out of proportion..

[Vinz Clortho]

Dutchgamer1982 a écrit :

bluesky66621 a écrit :

Credit cards were a thing for over 80 years. The difference is the shift of banking system that forcing everyone to be on credit if you want to buy a house, a car, hell even get a job. Credit report is a major thing for Americans. Without credit score, one would be less than nothing. If you want services then they look at your credit report if you qualify for services.

Without a credit score, you cannot even get a rental apartment. That's how bad Americans are now.

I bet if a person lived like a standard dutchman.. al his live having paid all in cash.. only having a debitcard.. and having saved 30k by the time hes 30..

and than would want a morgage without ever having lend a cent in his life...
would hear NO in usa

such a being who actually did all correct would likely be seen as total alien to americans;)

So say someone is 30 and they saved 30k, how is that going to help them without debt? At the rate they are saving, they will have enough to buy a house by the time they are 70 years old.

[Will be deleted]

Cœur de Lion a écrit :

Dutchgamer1982 a écrit :

and we dutch get a lot more paid days off, will get pensions on top of this wage (*our employer has to put 30% orso of this wage into our pensionfund) we will get paid sickleave, have free education, free healthcare and so on...

It's not really free though is it because you tax your highest earners at 52%, so the rich people are basically being made to pay for everyone else's education and healthcare by the government.

Yes it is very noticable once you see how much more the high earners in USA get compared to the high earners in europe and those americans also tend to get a lot of vacation days, healthcare and such as well.

[bluesky66621]

Ulfrinn a écrit :

Dutchgamer1982 a écrit :

I bet if a person lived like a standard dutchman.. al his live having paid all in cash.. only having a debitcard.. and having saved 30k by the time hes 30..

and than would want a morgage without ever having lend a cent in his life...
would hear NO in usa

such a being who actually did all correct would likely be seen as total alien to americans;)

(btw that same dutchman would hear NO on that morgage here to...after house prices have risen 3x faster than wages for like 70 years now... we are at a point that even 2 full time median incomes combined aint enough to pay what the averege house sells for.

2 in 3 houses are bought by investment funds to rent out to the same people that they outbid on.
for you cant get a morgage for 1200 a month, 30 year, 10 year fixed rate, inclusive paying off the full amount in 30 years.
. but you are allowed to pay 2000 rent on your 3000 a month income on that same property.

You make a lot of ridiculous, and unfounded generalizations. Most Americans I know don't do anything on credit.

Then you gotta be the outliner there. You cant even get a basic living without credit score. If you want to live in an apartment. Landlord/ corporate housing want to see your credit history before they even give the keys to you.

If you want electricity, and utilities. The companies check your credit score rather to keep you as a customer. Many of these services comes with a contract and monthly plans. Some services willing to forgo credit check but you will be paying bleeding rates for what you get.

[Will be deleted]

In USA a high paying job Maybe give you $6-11k a month after taxes similar jobs in Europe is maybe 3€ to 5k€ a month so at that point USA looks pretty good.

On low incomes However I suspect it look a lot worse for USA.

[Boblin the Goblin]

bluesky66621 a écrit :

Ulfrinn a écrit :

You make a lot of ridiculous, and unfounded generalizations. Most Americans I know don't do anything on credit.

Then you gotta be the outliner there. You cant even get a basic living without credit score. If you want to live in an apartment. Landlord/ corporate housing want to see your credit history before they even give the keys to you.

If you want electricity, and utilities. The companies check your credit score rather to keep you as a customer. Many of these services comes with a contract and monthly plans. Some services willing to forgo credit check but you will be paying bleeding rates for what you get.

Basic utilities(electric, water, etc.) are not based on credit score. Cambodia may be different.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Cœur de Lion a écrit :

Dutchgamer1982 a écrit :

I bet if a person lived like a standard dutchman.. al his live having paid all in cash.. only having a debitcard.. and having saved 30k by the time hes 30..

and than would want a morgage without ever having lend a cent in his life...
would hear NO in usa

such a being who actually did all correct would likely be seen as total alien to americans;)

So say someone is 30 and they saved 30k, how is that going to help them without debt? At the rate they are saving, they will have enough to buy a house by the time they are 70 years old.

they can't save for a house.. but they will be paying 2k a month in rent (or more it has grown truelly insanse).. the morgagfe payments on a similair house as you can rent are usualy betwen halve to twothirds of what the rent on the same property is..

butt thge problem even with fixed incomes.. even if you already paid that rent 10 years without ever missing any payment.. the bank just won't GIVE you a morgage that high..

thus you are screwed....
for that house you live in will apreciate in value 3 times fastr than your wage will increase.. and your high rent means you cant POSSIBLY save up enough.. you only will get further and further away from owning..

[Will be deleted]

One thing I notice about USA is how huge the difference is between the people on low incomes and those on high incomes, like basically two different countries, one with absurdly high living standard and one with very medicore one for a rich country.

[atomicgirl]

bluesky66621 a écrit :

atomicgirl a écrit :

It's because of credit cards.

I don't know how it was allowed, but credit card companies were all over college campuses back in the 1990s handing out credit cards to kids like crazy, telling them that they needed to build up their credit score. These people learned to spend beyond their means, so are slaves to debt.

Credit cards were a thing for over 80 years. The difference is the shift of banking system that forcing everyone to be on credit if you want to buy a house, a car, hell even get a job. Credit report is a major thing for Americans. Without credit score, one would be less than nothing. If you want services then they look at your credit report if you qualify for services.

Without a credit score, you cannot even get a rental apartment. That's how bad Americans are now.

I think this is overstating things a bit. It's true that you need a credit score for a car and house, but not for renting or getting a job. Employers only care about references and work history, and landlords look at court records and references.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Will be deleted a écrit :

In USA a high paying job Maybe give you $6-11k a month after taxes similar jobs in Europe is maybe 3€ to 5k€ a month so at that point USA looks pretty good.

On low incomes However I suspect it look a lot worse for USA.

a few winners does not mean that on average usa is a worse place.
like I say living in europe is like studying IT or another guaranteed a job mastergrade.
you never be rich but you never be poor and on average it will guarantee a good middleclass life

while living in usa is study to become an actor..
1 in a million becomes a moviestar and earns millions.
a few may land a few roles in commercials for gig money..
most will be forced to flip burgers for 3 dollar an hour..

the risk is just WAY to high.. and for the average person usa does not work.
usa system knows WAY more loosers than winners... and on average betting usa.. is indeed betting.. as in in a castno where the payout per dollar invested is always less than a dollar.

and thats not all.. many find living in pleasant mixed use neighbourhoods in europe a MUCH higher quality of living.. neigbourhoods that just not excist in car centric usa..
there is something about general urban plannign that makes european cities nicer to be.

and ofcourse thats not all.. but in usa you can have 100k today 0 tomorrow.. such shocks are much less likely in europe...
the peace of mind and safetynet is worth something too.. that if you made it here.. you will not fall back to the gutter again.

and ofcourse than there is the pointed out insane costs of pension, education and healthcare.. all included in the lower dutch wages.. but still have to be paid in usa

funny detail : look at those high earners in usa.. look where they are most commonly born.. and you see a trend..
few americans can in your system get there.
usa basicly leaches of europes good education by offering our best higher wages.. luring them to usa.. instead of changing your own system to educate americans themselves to get there..