Why do so many americans live paycheck to paycheck despite high salaries and resonable cost of living?

[Will be deleted]

Some seems to say that over half americans, maybe up to 60-70% live paycheck to paycheck including many with salaries above $100k.

Yet even including things like cars, healthcare and student debt americans probably come ahead people of other countries due to higher wages and lower taxes and some things like houses even seems cheaper in USA than peer countries.

It do seems to me that americans live more extravegant than people in peer countries but is that the reason for financial struggle?

[Dutchgamer1982]

Chunk Norris ☯님이 먼저 게시:

What doesn't get mentioned is the cost of living is pretty high and very often it's by design.

Take housing. The Green agenda craps all over this industry and prevents progress and creates the housing crisis which makes rent extremely expensive. Now I feel bad for the folks who vote Republican who want to see this changed, but the folks who vote for this stuff, for the climate change agenda they're getting what they paid for/voted for

now thats 1 part we dutch rightfully ignore...

two things that make dutch laugh their pants off..
americans complaining bout cost of morgage/rent and americans complaining bout fuelprices...

[JD]

89% of all consumer debt is held by women.
92% of college debt is held by women.
81% of all divorces are initiated by women.

[vinny]

The housing market is absolutely abysmal. Rent is high in most places, take a look at New York for example. For 3k a month you're lucky to get a nice one bed in a decent area, and that's even a stretch. You could realistically live comfortably if you live in a secluded area that's miles and miles away from and civilization (i.e. living in the mountains) but nobody wants to drive two hours to get groceries or enjoy themselves.

[Vinz Clortho]

I think the whole system is hilarious. They make everything you need - education, medical care, house, car so expensive that nobody can afford to buy it. The solution they offer you is to borrow such an amount of money that you spend your entire working life paying it back, and they charge you interest for the privilege.

Then they make you get insurance, because if anything happens to you/house/car, you're poor so you won't be able to afford to pay for the repairs. So you borrow money to pay for the car you can't afford, then give the money you earn to an insurance company because you can't afford to pay if you have an accident.

Everyone who gets a wage lives from paycheck to paycheck. Unless you are on a 6 figure salary, you are never going to be able to put enough money away to make any difference to anything. Most people can't ever save enough to make any difference to a major life event. They can't buy a new house if it's destroyed, or pay for a major surgery and a year in hospital. They would have to collect 30 years of wages just for one of those things lol.

If your paycheck disappears and you are an "average earner", the best you can hope for is to have enough money saved to maintain your lifestyle for a couple of months, while you get back onto the work-wage-debt system.

[MinionJoe]

Will be deleted님이 먼저 게시:

Why do so many americans live paycheck to paycheck despite high salaries and resonable cost of living?

Because many American's don't understand that the U.S. economy is the strongest it's ever been. Any paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle and the record consumer debt is just because people aren't looking at the right numbers.

[Will be deleted]

2AM님이 먼저 게시:

The housing market is absolutely abysmal. Rent is high in most places, take a look at New York for example. For 3k a month you're lucky to get a nice one bed in a decent area, and that's even a stretch. You could realistically live comfortably if you live in a secluded area that's miles and miles away from and civilization (i.e. living in the mountains) but nobody wants to drive two hours to get groceries or enjoy themselves.

USA However seems to have more affordable housing than Europe, but rent and travel time seems less good.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Will be deleted님이 먼저 게시:

Why would people go that far into debt for such low wages, sure some do but I don’t think it is that common.

If you reach six figure you probably better of financially in USA than Europe, those jobs also tend to come with other benefits. Now only Maybe 1/4 make six figures.

100k incomes are a lot more common in usa than they are in the netherlands

BUT.,.. the median income (50% earns more, 50% earns less) in netherlands is 44k
and the average 48k EURO that is

usa's average income is 37.500 DOLLAR or about 34k euro

and we dutch get a lot more paid days off, will get pensions on top of this wage (*our employer has to put 30% orso of this wage into our pensionfund) we will get paid sickleave, have free education, free healthcare and so on...

education similair story.. oh usa has basicly the best 3 universities in the world.. but our country has more in the top 100.. basicly ALL ours are int he top 100.. and they are quite cheap..

healthcare same thing.. usa has a few private clinics with procedures where anything is possible decades ahead of us.. IF you can afford it.. the quality of general healthcare is however abysmal while it costs 20 times as much if not more..
and thats just what the HOSPITAL charges.. our costs are paid by the state so free for us.. in usa you be paying that outragious bill yourself.

so instead of an 50000 hospital bill for a procedure thats 20 years behind the one I get as an european.. my hospital only charges 2500.. for a modern one.. and that 2500 is paid by my state..

usa is for MOST people a very very ♥♥♥♥♥♥ place to live... and on average a lot worse off than my country.

but for a few yeah it does offer better opportunity than mine..
feels way to much like a gamble though..

like my parents advised my brother to study arts, despite clear talent.. and to study IT instead.. why? cause the chance you get a job let alone a well paying one in arts is nearly 0.
It's the same reason you don't aspire a career in sports or acting.. sure a FEW make millions but you are infinitely more likely to end up in debt flipping burgers.. and misreable... so better play it safe!

[Vinz Clortho]

Dutchgamer1982님이 먼저 게시:

and we dutch get a lot more paid days off, will get pensions on top of this wage (*our employer has to put 30% orso of this wage into our pensionfund) we will get paid sickleave, have free education, free healthcare and so on...

It's not really free though is it because you tax your highest earners at 52%, so the rich people are basically being made to pay for everyone else's education and healthcare by the government.

[atomicgirl]

It's because of credit cards.

I don't know how it was allowed, but credit card companies were all over college campuses back in the 1990s handing out credit cards to kids like crazy, telling them that they needed to build up their credit score. These people learned to spend beyond their means, so are slaves to debt.

I have a family member like this who I want to throttle. She's the perfect example of champagne tastes on a beer budget. Has been on three expensive cruises but lives in Section 8 housing, has an expensive phone, cable bill, etc. Declared bankruptcy twice.

[bluesky66621]

Dutchgamer1982님이 먼저 게시:

Morkonan님이 먼저 게시:

IMO...

There have been quite a few additional expenses, plenty of predatory price increases, a very wide accepetence of "debt" being normalized, a true societal pressure for consumerism, and the most prominent cause for complaint - Skyrocketing housing costs in crowded urban environments.

And, let's not forget - The internet is humanity's complaint tool.

I'm not saying it's all good. It's not good for everyone. But, there are more factors at work here than simple, basic, economic reports.

yes usa forced you into debt to.
-minimumwage vs cost of living is laughable.. so you need college even more than in europe.
college is insanely expensive and will cause a LOT of debt... here it is free or a heck of a lot cheaper depending on what nation (like a whole degree here at worst 5k for 4 years out of your own pocket.. in usa easely 30-100 per year.. so 150-400k for uyour degree)

-thats not all.. usá's infrastructure is TERRIBLE... you NEED a car.. here in europe public transport is excelent.. cities are dense, with everything much closer.. so walking and biking is also much safer and totally viable...
in usa you cannot leave your parents neighbourhood for anything not even to visit a store or go to boycouts without being driven there..
so when you go college you also are forced to buy a car
-> SMART would be to buy cash a decent 2d hand car.. but than you be the laughing stock (social pressure) + consumer laws are real terrible (here laws would mean you could sue if the carsalesman sells you a 2d hand car thats not good.. in usa no guarantee once you have the keys). also usa 2d hand market is much words americans drive on average much older cars than europeans.. thus buying a 2d hand one will be much more degraded than here in euirope.,. finally american cars are terrible in quality but imported ones are more expensive..
(so lucky you if you have a dad or somebody who knows cars ideally can handle a wrench so you can risk to pay cash for a 2d hand one.. but for most it just is not an option.. also... well americans not save.. so few 16yo will have the 5k to lay down cash for a 2d hand car.. and dealers really hate you paying cash.. and financing a 2d hand car is near impossible so yeah they push hard towards buying a new financed car.

-so when you start finally working you are already hundreds of thousands into the hole.. while your starting salery is laughable.. unpaid intership for the first decade orso.... you cannot show as poor as you are usa culture is very superfiscial if you not have nice dentures, a nice suit etc, you won't keep even that internship job long let alone a promotion to a real positioon...
anything you do earn gets eaten by all the payments you are due on your car and student debt..
so how you survive basicly living with no incomes... : credit cards.. you borrow even moire..\

SOME after like a decade of that.. with like 400k of debt will finally have a job that earns them 40k a year.. and they might get starting paying off all that debt..
and if they REAL lkucky when they 50 they might have risen to 70 or 100k..

but by now they are SO used to live with debt.. most never ever pay it off when they can, after decades of living poor they want to enjou so they only pay the interest.

and thats the ones that succeed..... for even if you did ALL that. you can get fired on the spot and 0 safetynet.. so you instantly have 0 income until you find a new job..

and even if not that.. getting sick.. can REALLY bankrupt you in usa.. every medical procedure in usa costs like 50 times what it does in europe while you have to pay it yourself.. while we get free healthcare.

Agreed, what made matters worse is that modern corporation no longer included pension plans, 401K plans into employment packages. Some companies still do 401K matching, not many as used to. It called "At will" meaning you can be fired for any or no reason at all. Companies are good at making excuses so the employee will never know the real reason. It very sad.

[Chunk Norris ☯]

Will be deleted님이 먼저 게시:

2AM님이 먼저 게시:

The housing market is absolutely abysmal. Rent is high in most places, take a look at New York for example. For 3k a month you're lucky to get a nice one bed in a decent area, and that's even a stretch. You could realistically live comfortably if you live in a secluded area that's miles and miles away from and civilization (i.e. living in the mountains) but nobody wants to drive two hours to get groceries or enjoy themselves.

USA However seems to have more affordable housing than Europe, but rent and travel time seems less good.

People don't realize how good they have it until they don't have it. The Dutch or Europe might look at Americans complaining about gas prices or the economy and think that their situation is much worse and maybe it is...but probably one of the big differences is Americans can change it...this November. Every 4 years. And local elections are often just as important if not more important. People blame Trump for the actions of often Democrat Mayors and Governors that lockdown their businesses/economy. But image those states that didn't lock-down that spent those 2 years during Covid living their life instead of huddled inside a room somewhere afraid of the air.

And America tends to experience more prosperity, which is why people want to come here.

[Vinz Clortho]

2AM님이 먼저 게시:

The housing market is absolutely abysmal. Rent is high in most places, take a look at New York for example. For 3k a month you're lucky to get a nice one bed in a decent area, and that's even a stretch. You could realistically live comfortably if you live in a secluded area that's miles and miles away from and civilization (i.e. living in the mountains) but nobody wants to drive two hours to get groceries or enjoy themselves.

New York is the most expensive expat city in the world so you haven't really picked the best example and it's a stretch to go from that so saying that you need to live in the mountains instead.
I have a friend who moved to somewhere that just became a township the year before. They were basically a new town starting out, he got a good deal on the house and they only have to drive 45 mins to get groceries lol.

[bluesky66621]

atomicgirl님이 먼저 게시:

It's because of credit cards.

I don't know how it was allowed, but credit card companies were all over college campuses back in the 1990s handing out credit cards to kids like crazy, telling them that they needed to build up their credit score. These people learned to spend beyond their means, so are slaves to debt.

Credit cards were a thing for over 80 years. The difference is the shift of banking system that forcing everyone to be on credit if you want to buy a house, a car, hell even get a job. Credit report is a major thing for Americans. Without credit score, one would be less than nothing. If you want services then they look at your credit report if you qualify for services.

Without a credit score, you cannot even get a rental apartment. That's how bad Americans are now.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Chunk Norris ☯님이 먼저 게시:

Will be deleted님이 먼저 게시:

USA However seems to have more affordable housing than Europe, but rent and travel time seems less good.

People don't realize how good they have it until they don't have it. The Dutch or Europe might look at Americans complaining about gas prices or the economy and think that their situation is much worse and maybe it is...but probably one of the big differences is Americans can change it...this November. Every 4 years. And local elections are often just as important if not more important. People blame Trump for the actions of often Democrat Mayors and Governors that lockdown their businesses/economy. But image those states that didn't lock-down that spent those 2 years during Covid living their life instead of huddled inside a room somewhere afraid of the air.

And America tends to experience more prosperity, which is why people want to come here.

america has more FREEDOM.. not in all regards.. I know people who moved to usa for that reason.. (they moved to usa o flee all the woke laws that treaten to take your kids away as good christian.) but believe me their income and quality of live took a nosedive..

others were sellouts yes well educated mastergrade employees paid here 40k paided 100k in usa... BUT thats sellout behavior.,. for they would never have been able to AFFORD said degree.. without european high taxes and funding..

(it's why I would like to see a HIGH tax on europeans with a degree migrating.. only allow them if they pay like 150k.. to pay back all the subsidy they recieved on their education.. and that they were supposed to pay back with future income taxes...

also income not say all.. even materially an income of 40k here gets you further than 70k in usa..

but I admit with europe in an energy crisis.. and usa again an energy exporter.. usa has pulled ahead for now.. but it did many times in the past.. europe always later catched on again..

and as pointed out.. average income wise your still way behind us... such wages may lure in spanish workers.. but not dutch or nordics.

but dutch DO have an insane housing crisis.. caused by mismanagment of the goverment.
they NEVER fixed it after ww2.. and last 20 years they made it much much worse...
this not had to be the case.. it could have been solved once and for all long ago.. but the goverment did not want to.
they ended funding and laws that kept houses and rents relatively low and helped increase the number of new houses buiold... and they opened the door for foreign ionvestors (long banned from our market).,. instated a rent tax to be paid by landlords.. and stupid green laws.. that make building new houses needlessly restricted..
**oh and the law that all newly build houses must be co2 neutral and without gas for heating... does not help either...

we also have INSANE fuel prices.. but it does not hurt us as bad.. a car is a luxery only 40% orso has.. our infrastrucutrue let you live fine with just walking and a bike and public transport.. a car is nice to have but absolutely not needed.
a bigger issue is that public trnasport has been privatised and has become a lot more expense... that is for far more an issue than fuel prices..

[mai72]

That is easy. DEBT DEBT DEBT.

I'll give a quick example.

1. I was able to hit my retirement goal at 43, 44. I taught overseas. And so, when I made $45k for the year I kept most of it. The school paid for my apartment. I had no car, and no car insurance. I got rid of two of the largest obstacles to financial freedom. An apartment, and a car note. Also, I was exempt from paying US taxes because I was overseas. I paid a 3% Korean Vat tax while there, but that was it. No 26% US federal tax, and no state tax.

2. Compare that to many people who live in America. You can't get around rent. Well you could take on another room mate I guess. To help with the rent. But, I see many people move into homes that are WAAAAAY out of their price range. $450k home when they are making $60k a year. Which brings me to the car note. The average car note is $700. Many people are buying cars at $45k when they make $45k a year. The honest answer: They should purchase a car that is 10% of their income. And so, if you make $45k you should be driving a $4-6k car. They don't make enough money. But, we've gotten to the point in America that we need to show off even though it puts us into debt. Its why credit card debt is the highest its ever been. SPEND SPEND SPEND! I drive a 2005 Hyundai with rust on the hood. Its clean. Only 92k miles. I could care less what someone thinks about me because I drive a crap car. But lets go MY investments vs THEIR investments, and I'll smoke 95% of people. Most Americans are B-R-O-K-E.

Cost of living is high. I just spent $150 on groceries and I'm a single guy.