What takes more skill, FPS or fighting games?

[Haiku's Knife]

It seems that FPS and fighting games have the most visible and largest competitive communities from my perception and as such, I started to wonder which genre actually requires a greater amount of skill to reach a high level if such a think can even be objectively deduced.

I think I veer more towards fighting games, because all FPS games have relatively transferable skills. If you get your mechanical accuracy up in CS, that will also apply if you start playing COD; all that's left is to learn the nuances of each game. Fighting games on the other hand feel like they have not only more mechanical skills to master, but also require more memory and processing, like memorizing and knowing when to perform combos and understanding every character that is in a particular game and how they match up against yours. You could probably spend 100 hours in an FPS and reach a fairly proficient level. A 100 hours in a fighting game probably just means you're relatively proficient with only a single character.

Your onions?

[Stranger]

Escrito originalmente por Haiku's Knife:

Escrito originalmente por Stranger:

FPS is mostly about using knowledge and your awareness to either avoid fighting game situations or set them up in such a way that you have an extreme advantage. Advantages such as sneaking up on someone, waiting for them in a doorway corner as they pass, or flashing and flanking to line up a headshot on your wooden meeple.

They're completely different skillsets, and most fps simply don't allow the counterplay that fighting games do. I can't tech someone's knife in CS2GO, for instance; all I can do is move away. If they're stabbing my head and I can't back up I'm dead; I can't move my head aside or press block or anything. I lost the cat and mouse game, and this one dimensional fighting game is what resulted.

FPS has always been very situational to me. I mean, not that your brain isn't constantly on, but its activity has peaks and troughs. When you're inserting in Siege, you're scanning the environment and paying attention, but that's all you really have to be doing. Then, when you have to shoot, you shoot and that's all you're really doing. So, your brain is just focused generally focused on one activity at a time, as opposed to fighting games where your brain is in a constant state of high and varied activity. I wish we had studies of peoples' brains under scan while they're playing these respective genres. My theory is that fighting games overall would require more function.

I think FPS tends to require more planning and situational awareness up front, but the execution can still be very lazy and you'll probably win anyway. Meanwhile in a fighting game even if you have no game sense or awareness you can still tech and execute your way out of most situations. The skillsets overlap as a person develops and starts to create gameplay loops that resemble eachother. A roman cancel to buy a few inches of screen space to execute a swap; letting someone get the drop on you so that their guard is down when you 180 noscope them. Etc.

I feel like as someone plays different types of games they'll begin developing skillsets that are almost unrecognizable.

Like the number of times I've seen CSGO pros bet their life on a 50/50 they didn't need to have is astronomical, but fighting game players often get taken out before their skills even come into play. Wrong open window to walk by; didn't know the ins and outs of every map perfectly. Or CSGO players that can't fight more than 5 seconds without a reset, and are constantly voiding the initiative trying to re-establish distance with walking instead of their fists.

Fighters committing to a fight in a hallway that disfavors them, etc.

One's sneaking around a hallway full of ghosts and pitfall traps full of shotguns, the other is punching ghosts down the hall so they can't pull anything. After a certain point they become the same thing, but one game or the other is going to favor a certain approach 90% of the time.

[Stranger]

Escrito originalmente por Breathe:

I would think that fighting has more variables.

Most of them are known though; you don't necessarily know what corner someone is sitting behind as you walk around a map, and that constant unknown can be a deafeningly pervasive variable. Every single corner needs analysis, and you can't afford to slow down to do it.

[Mina]

Fps, you’re fighting others and there’s enviromental, tactical and mental factors of your opponent that differ and change. Fighting games only have so many combos and tricks in a small environment

[Placenta Salad]

I think one distinction that can be made is a situation wherein you can take a gold (average) ranked player in a shooter game and have them play a grandmaster ranked player and perhaps one out of ten games that gold player might actually win or almost win, whether it be due to just some luck or whatever. A lucky flick or a well placed headshot. I've at least seen this happen before.

But somebody in a fighting game who is the equivalent of a gold (average) rank probably won't really win at all against a grandmaster ranked player. There's just too many mistakes that can be made by the lower ranked player that will result in them being open to a juggle, and they probably lack the reflexes and the moveset knowledge.

Escrito originalmente por Haiku's Knife:

FPS has always been very situational to me. I mean, not that your brain isn't constantly on, but its activity has peaks and troughs. When you're inserting in Siege, you're scanning the environment and paying attention, but that's all you really have to be doing. Then, when you have to shoot, you shoot and that's all you're really doing. So, your brain is just focused generally focused on one activity at a time, as opposed to fighting games where your brain is in a constant state of high and varied activity. I wish we had studies of peoples' brains under scan while they're playing these respective genres. My theory is that fighting games overall would require more function.

Well, and this means no offense, but if all you are thinking about when shooting is just shooting, then I'd surmise you are not really playing at a high level. Siege, as an example here, relies upon a lot of multitasking. Strategic drone placement to cover multiple angles and blindspots, checking those drones and being aware of your surroundings at all times, etc. Shooting at a wall or down a corridor is easy, sure, but you can't just be shooting. You need to be thinking of where the enemy is going to be next if you didn't manage to get that elimination. Where and when are they going to peek? Are they going to throw a gadget? Where should you relocate for a more advantageous position since your cover is blown? You have to answer these questions while you are shooting, not once you've started reloading as then it's too late. People at the top level aren't just shooting or scanning an environment, they have multiple plans while doing it based upon their map awareness. APM isn't really calculated in a shooter game like it is in a game like Starcraft or fighting games, but you still need to be maximizing your actions per minute.

A fighting game is, of course, much more action intensive, but it's also much shorter of a fight. There isn't really a slow moment because it's a duel that starts immediately after a 3-second countdown but most fighting games don't have more than, what, a two minute round timer? You don't really get time to prepare to the same extent that a game like Counter-Strike has big maps where you can easily position yourself in time before the enemy appears. But a 1v1 in a shooter game still requires a lot of thought process because you need to constantly be thinking one step ahead of your opponent as well. Where are they going to insert? Which bomb site are they going to plant at this time? What gun did they choose?

[⚡Electro Javaboy⚡]

Fighting games, it's hard to pickup and hard to master while fps games is really pickup, you only need to master your opponent so the game itself is easier to master.

[Haiku's Knife]

Escrito originalmente por Stranger:

I think FPS tends to require more planning and situational awareness up front

Yes, there are always predetermined points on a map to control, like what you referenced. In that case, half the strategy is already done and the rest becomes a matter of execution and I would say that's also the easiest aspect of the FPS to master.

but the execution can still be very lazy and you'll probably win anyway. Meanwhile in a fighting game even if you have no game sense or awareness you can still tech and execute your way out of most situations.

I'm skeptical that someone who's cultivated a proficient level of technical skill in a fighting game is ever going to be lacking in sense or awareness, though. It pretty much comes with the territory of experience.

The skillsets overlap as a person develops and starts to create gameplay loops that resemble eachother. A roman cancel to buy a few inches of screen space to execute a swap; letting someone get the drop on you so that their guard is down when you 180 noscope them. Etc.

True and you're not wrong and both feats are indicative of good mechanical proficiency and awareness.

I feel like as someone plays different types of games they'll begin developing skillsets that are almost unrecognizable.

Like the number of times I've seen CSGO pros bet their life on a 50/50 they didn't need to have is astronomical, but fighting game players often get taken out before their skills even come into play. Wrong open window to walk by; didn't know the ins and outs of every map perfectly. Or CSGO players that can't fight more than 5 seconds without a reset, and are constantly voiding the initiative trying to re-establish distance with walking instead of their fists.

Fighters committing to a fight in a hallway that disfavors them, etc.

One's sneaking around a hallway full of ghosts and pitfall traps full of shotguns, the other is punching ghosts down the hall so they can't pull anything. After a certain point they become the same thing, but one game or the other is going to favor a certain approach 90% of the time.

That's the thing, though, I'd say shooters have a more luck based aspect to them. For example, in Siege you could be firing at someone and then accidently shoot one of their teammates through a wall and get a kill. There's arguably less luck in fighting games.

[Caldari Ghost]

i will guess that fighting games involve ones working memory capacity to a much higher degree. that alone would make them more demanding than a basic fps template.

[Midnight Sky ✨🌙✨]

Neither is inherently harder than the other. In fact, I would even make a case that it's not even that either of them are hard, it's just that multiplayer is inherently hard.

If you find someone who has never played a video game in their life and give them either counter strike or street fighter, they're very likely to struggled in both. Years of gaming experience makes it easy to forget there there actually isn't anything inherently intuitive with video games.

The key difference between fighting games and FPS games that make the latter perceived as easier is the fact that FPS games are far more abundant and they're far more likely to have pve modes. As such, people are just more likely to have experience with FPS games that make getting into more of them easier. That experience is what makes common design patterns intutive to understand.

As for fighting games, they (usually) don't actually play anything like other genres and have unique ways of doing what you would do in an action game (holding back to block, for example). This is also on top of the fact that fighting games have been niche for years and are only more recently starting to enter the mainstream. The experience that makes common fighting game design patterns intuitive to understand just doesn't yet exist for most people yet. As time goes on and fighting games get more and more popular (and we hopefully start getting good singleplayer modes), the average person will be more likely to understand how to play a fighting game.

[Caldari Ghost]

Escrito originalmente por Midnight Carnival Snack:

This is also on top of the fact that fighting games have been niche for years and are only more recently starting to enter the mainstream.

wat

[Midnight Sky ✨🌙✨]

Escrito originalmente por potato:

fighting games due to having to memorize all them combos

That's (mostly) a myth. Sure, knowing optimal, labbed out combos helps as it means getting more reward from wining an interaction. But you don't really need to know combos, hell, you don't even need to use everything a character has. I used to ♥♥♥♥ around with Squiggly in Skullgirls and have not once in my life pulled off a stance cancel during a combo outside of the tutorial. Hell, someone managed to climb to the highest rank in Guilty Gear Strive by spamming literally one singular attack. Generally, you can learn like one or two bread and butter[glossary.infil.net] combos and be set enough to just play in beginner or even intermediate skill levels.

Learning neutral[glossary.infil.net] is far more important, all the practiced combos in the world can't help you if you can't even get the first hit in.

Escrito originalmente por Pierce Dalton:

Fighting games, no doubt. Luck plays a huge role in fps games, it's all about who sees who first. And if your aim isn't terrible, that's a kill.

Not really. Sure if you're playing something like cod then yeah, whoever sees who first wins. But there's a lot of shooters that aren't like that. There's games like Counter Strike or Siege where you have to learn the maps and how best to position yourself to account where you expect your opponent to be, who are all doing the same. Games like splatoon exist where players can be so fast and nimble that seeing the other player first doesn't mean you win as they can use their mobility to try to get out of the dangerous situation you tried to put them in. You also have games with slower ttks where where encountering another player really is more of an active fight.

Escrito originalmente por Pierce Dalton:

In addition to that, mastering a fighting game requires knowing all the moves that can be used against you, by all characters. That's a lot for your brain lol.

Not true. Even top players won't know every matchup in the game. Generally the only the most popular characters are ones you specifically need to know how to fight (unless your character is just that privileged). In fact, one of the advantages to playing weaker characters is that people aren't going to know how to fight your character so you can win with knowledge checks.

[Midnight Sky ✨🌙✨]

Escrito originalmente por Caldari Ghost:

Escrito originalmente por Midnight Carnival Snack:

This is also on top of the fact that fighting games have been niche for years and are only more recently starting to enter the mainstream.

wat

Fighting games had a lot of popularity for a time, then faded into obscurity until more recent years. Games like Street Fighter and Tekken have always been fairly popular, but anything outside of that was extremely niche. Now there's more fighting games that people are likely to know about like Dragon Ball FighterZ and Guilty Gear Strive.

[Xero_Daxter]

Escrito originalmente por Fake:

MOBA. . . .

As a Grandmaster 2 in League of Legends I can say it’s a mixed bag. Even when I’m in Diamond Ranks there are still scrubs making bad plays. I play Top Lane which consist of Bruisers, Fighters, and Tanks and we don’t have impact until the Mid-Game which sucks because we cannot influence the outcome of the early game.

Long story short… in MOBA even if you win the battle you can still lose the war.

[C4Warr10r]

FPS mastery. Fighting games have limited move-sets, however diverse, but in FPS multiplayer, you're fighting against human ingenuity and the capacity for learning, which is all but limitless.

[Hairy Hands Harry]

Escrito originalmente por potato:

fighting games due to having to memorize all them combos

This. And fighting games require faster reflexes.

[Hobbit XIII]

Escrito originalmente por Hairy Hands Harry:

Escrito originalmente por potato:

fighting games due to having to memorize all them combos

This. And fighting games require faster reflexes.

I disagree

They both require different skills.

FPS the extra energy goes into manouvre and aiming that is not being put into the combo / special moves of a fighting game from MK to Tekken to BioFreaks - yeah I used retro as examples cos I'm cool.

So to be clear imho they both require skill not one genre over the other maybe in certain individual games pending circumstance.

-Tantive IV battlefront 2 classic. (The iconic boarding ship at the beginning of New Hope and where as a child I realised the rebels are liars and Vader is doing a pretty good job of things all things considered ).
If you want to keep your own spawn rate down you need seriouz skillz.
One person who first came upon that map in multiplayer said
'whoever designed this map is a psychopath'