NATO membership

[Hobbit XIII]

I was looking at how popular Trump is and how much he likes spouting bs and how much the general American Trump supporter does not want to do any real research despite it all being there on many things.

So I conclude that America does not want to be a part of NATO and ok that is a big disappointment but this century is going to need stable alliances and America has not provided that with its political / corporate wars within itself and the crazy decisions made especially by Biden and Trump on opposing sides.

America is a democracy that regular states through its citizens that it does not like NATO, so I think it is about time America should be allowed to do its democratic right of self determination and just leave NATO.

NATO will then re-evaluate its defences and get rid of American bases from its lands because Americans don't want them in our countries and rest of NATO would not want the US soldiers there as they do not want to be there.

I also look back at what the NRA was saying in its speeches years ago and I thought why does it have to be so political and why does it have to keep attacking European countries in its speeches to people we have nothing to do with the NRA.
-Now when I was much younger I heard of an organisation in America called the NRA and I thought wow what a great idea a big club that promotes training and safety of weapons. Then I listened to them over time and havent wanted to listen to them for years now.
Sad thing is I hear the same kind of tone in Americans who dislike the rest of the world - especially Europe, United Kingdom of Great Britain and everybody in NATO.

Anyway as I was saying I am hearing a lot of American hate towards Europe and towards NATO and well you guys across the Atlantic you can just leave then.

Your a democratic country you all have the vote and the choice of your leaders and there is an awful lot of support for Trump and his anti NATO / anti Europe sentiment so please just leave and next time you want to ever tell any NATO or European country what to do remember to kindly just ♥♥♥♥ off instead.

Europe alone can sort Russia out if it sticks its boots over our borders.

[Sigma957]

America doesn't need NATO but USA Corp does. Germany also doesn't need NATO.

[Armagon]

vkobe の投稿を引用：

next time be sure than to be membership you need to spend 2% gdp in military

We should all be getting refunds for fighting in Iraq, USA can't fight for ♥♥♥♥

[Hobbit XIII]

Morkonan の投稿を引用：

Hobbit XIII の投稿を引用：

..
♥♥♥♥ off.

You declared something was true which was shown to not be true. Do you have any evidence to support your assertion? If so, present it.

I gave you the best data I could find. And... that's what you offer.

Expected.

Go and collect your pension and leave the rest of NATO and its allies alone and go blow up some more civilians that is what the USA and Russia are good for.

Trump = I hate NATO becauser its in the way of my business.

Americans = We Love Trump the world is against our savior.

Me and majority of the world = Trump and all those who vote for him ♥♥♥♥ off.

[Ulfrinn]

Again, for context, the US has about half the population of the rest of the NATO countries combined, but spends twice the amount of money on defense as the rest of the NATO countries combined. That means this so-called "partnership" has American citizens shouldering 4x the financial burden that European citizens shoulder. And for that, we get talked down to, insulted, disrespected, case in point, this thread.

If you think 4x the burden is okay, and want to pretend like Americans are being unreasonable for having a problem with that, then that is precisely the reason why so many Americans are getting fed up with Europe and NATO. It's not Trump that is souring them on Europe and NATO, it's Europe that is doing that all on their own.

Furthermore, more and more politicians aren't saying this in a vacuum, they're saying it because it's what more and more people want to hear. You try to get involved in US politics, tell us who to vote for based on what would work best for you, while blaming your problems on someone like Trump. Trump has nothing to do with this.

[Begal]

Why do Americans want to chicken out of the alliance after trumps predecessor has invoked article 5 and dragged us Europeans into the war in the middle east? No, you guys are now stuck with us in this, no escaping.

[isomorphic_projection]

Donut の投稿を引用：

Why do Americans want to chicken out of the alliance after trumps predecessor has invoked article 5 and dragged us Europeans into the war in the middle east? No, you guys are now stuck with us in this, no escaping.

The US won't exist very much longer. Their more people now in the US, then their was ever before in the whole history of mankind. And some have returned already, to Europe.
The well of souls is dry, it's dead ground.

[Voroff]

Ulfrinn の投稿を引用：

Again, for context, the US has about half the population of the rest of the NATO countries combined, but spends twice the amount of money on defense as the rest of the NATO countries combined.

Again, for context, America is in the top 3 economic powers, comparing it to belgium is nonsensical. Again, for context, America is overspending a huge chunk of its economy on wargear anyways and is more than RENTABILIZING IT. A FRACTION of the oil extracted for the US by sites not on american soil, alone could fund a huge education retrofit - there is just no incentive - see the entire system, from the prison to land partionning in the cities to CIA doing POLITICS in the HOMELAND instead of defenig it from externa threats. It's an entire system that works the BEST in wars.

So, in europe, why anyway spending MOAR when the the best wargear is already there, the soldiers are already there, are trained for combined armed things ? D'you want us to make exercises twenty times a year to spend more money ?? There is a limit to the number of warships the could float on a sea, you see, and an even tighter limit to the number of ships in a given port at the same time ... if you follow more or less what i meant, at least.
(Edit : at least the US have an incentive to replace its lost gear on the field ... because they use it and loose it. Many wars on europe rencently innit, yeah, there even a reason for why europe "exists" in the first place, and it has fulfilled that ambition : there is no armor to "replace" in those places)


There is not threat of russians boots on poland. And poland is stronk. Poland has france as ally, and frank has big badaboom nuke. Please remove the already existant "US" nukes from europeean soil, without blowing them in the process - at least do a broken arrow if needed, not a detonation, pliz.

[Thadeus]

America doesn't participate in Europe's wars. I sleep.

Europe doesn't participate in America's wars. SERIOUS ♥♥♥♥!!! RENAMING FRENCH FRIES TO LIBERTY FRIES!!!

[Voroff]

Thadeus の投稿を引用：

America doesn't participate in Europe's wars. I sleep.

Europe doesn't participate in America's wars. SERIOUS ♥♥♥♥!!! RENAMING FRENCH FRIES TO LIBERTY FRIES!!!

Again, what europe war without america you are talking of ? There were no such thing. Amercia, on the other hand, has launched A LOT of wars ... and the only ONLY ON it WON without allies was : its civil war. So yeah, make sense they SHOULD catter to their euro-friends needs, because they ask them an awfull lot to "participate" in wars that ... profits ... the US.


AGAIN, WHAT WAR THE EUROS HAD ASKED AMERICAN BACK UP IN THE LAST 30 YEARS SAY ??


Does someone think that the NATO is not the US's pet ? For that matter, does someone remember the UK NOT backing up an american resolution in NATO for ... the entire inception of the thing ? :D

[isomorphic_projection]

vkobe の投稿を引用：

isomorphic_projection の投稿を引用：

The Bundeswehr, spends more then enough. Not just that, Germany has the backup. Of Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium and a few countries more.

And why should the EU spend more. Go for once fight somewhere else. Instead of Europe, constantly.

I'm starting to think that either Americans are a bunch of softies hating the cold. With that i mean, start throwing some fingers in the Bering strait. Or that we indeed live on a flat Earth, and Europe is in the middle.

i dont say other are better, for example france spend 1,9%

but usa spend 4%

so for france they are big enough to defend themselves and are far away from russia

but for the average american they are unhappy to see your countries you name to spend less than 2%

i can also include japan and canada in the list

They can have Japan, future radioactive earth quake zone. And Canada, you need to know certain constructions. It was part of the EU in some way, but not anymore.

[WhiteKnight77]

Voroff の投稿を引用：

Thadeus の投稿を引用：

America doesn't participate in Europe's wars. I sleep.

Europe doesn't participate in America's wars. SERIOUS ♥♥♥♥!!! RENAMING FRENCH FRIES TO LIBERTY FRIES!!!

Again, what europe war without america you are talking of ? There were no such thing. Amercia, on the other hand, has launched A LOT of wars ... and the only ONLY ON it WON without allies was : its civil war. So yeah, make sense they SHOULD catter to their euro-friends needs, because they ask them an awfull lot to "participate" in wars that ... profits ... the US.


AGAIN, WHAT WAR THE EUROS HAD ASKED AMERICAN BACK UP IN THE LAST 30 YEARS SAY ??


Does someone think that the NATO is not the US's pet ? For that matter, does someone remember the UK NOT backing up an american resolution in NATO for ... the entire inception of the thing ? :D

In 2003, both France and Germany voted against the US going back into Iraq. The reason became apparent as US and English forces found arms from both countries that had dates during the years of the sanctions against the selling of such to Iraq. Both countries were rearming Saddam Hussein while active UN sanctions were in place from 1991 to 2003. Why would a NATO ally do such?

From where I stand, this is a stab in the back by people claiming to be an ally and an egregious
violation of UN sanctions.

[Bamford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMXikZM_O80

[Pocahawtness]

Hobbit XIII の投稿を引用：

I was looking at how popular Trump is and how much he likes spouting bs and how much the general American Trump supporter does not want to do any real research despite it all being there on many things.

So I conclude that America does not want to be a part of NATO and ok that is a big disappointment but this century is going to need stable alliances and America has not provided that with its political / corporate wars within itself and the crazy decisions made especially by Biden and Trump on opposing sides.

America is a democracy that regular states through its citizens that it does not like NATO, so I think it is about time America should be allowed to do its democratic right of self determination and just leave NATO.

NATO will then re-evaluate its defences and get rid of American bases from its lands because Americans don't want them in our countries and rest of NATO would not want the US soldiers there as they do not want to be there.

I also look back at what the NRA was saying in its speeches years ago and I thought why does it have to be so political and why does it have to keep attacking European countries in its speeches to people we have nothing to do with the NRA.
-Now when I was much younger I heard of an organisation in America called the NRA and I thought wow what a great idea a big club that promotes training and safety of weapons. Then I listened to them over time and havent wanted to listen to them for years now.
Sad thing is I hear the same kind of tone in Americans who dislike the rest of the world - especially Europe, United Kingdom of Great Britain and everybody in NATO.

Anyway as I was saying I am hearing a lot of American hate towards Europe and towards NATO and well you guys across the Atlantic you can just leave then.

Your a democratic country you all have the vote and the choice of your leaders and there is an awful lot of support for Trump and his anti NATO / anti Europe sentiment so please just leave and next time you want to ever tell any NATO or European country what to do remember to kindly just ♥♥♥♥ off instead.

Europe alone can sort Russia out if it sticks its boots over our borders.

I think the reason is that Americans see their contribution as uneven. Add Trump doesn't like uneven things!

But, actually, it's not uneven.

Most countries have a domestic defence budget, but America has a global budget. If America pulls out of NATO, honestly it won't make that much difference to NATO, but it will make a difference to America. It is like America saying, "we don't want to be part of the world stage anymore".

NATO is a deterrent. And it's better to have it than not have it. It's not costing America much to be part of it, and most world actions are not carried out by NATO. In fact, the only country in recent years that invoked NATO was America!

[Voroff]

WhiteKnight77 の投稿を引用：

In 2003, both France and Germany voted against the US going back into Iraq.

Nah, that is because that war was injust, made on fabricated lies visible from MILES AFAR and has taken very quick a propaganda turn about "if you are not against terrorist muslim you are one sympathyser and shall be cancelled at the very least".

The reason became apparent as US and English forces found arms from both countries that had dates during the years of the sanctions against the selling of such to Iraq. Both countries were rearming Saddam Hussein while active UN sanctions were in place from 1991 to 2003. Why would a NATO ally do such?

Do you have ANY PROOF ? :)

[vkobe]

Voroff の投稿を引用：

Thadeus の投稿を引用：

America doesn't participate in Europe's wars. I sleep.

Europe doesn't participate in America's wars. SERIOUS ♥♥♥♥!!! RENAMING FRENCH FRIES TO LIBERTY FRIES!!!

Again, what europe war without america you are talking of ? There were no such thing. Amercia, on the other hand, has launched A LOT of wars ... and the only ONLY ON it WON without allies was : its civil war. So yeah, make sense they SHOULD catter to their euro-friends needs, because they ask them an awfull lot to "participate" in wars that ... profits ... the US.


AGAIN, WHAT WAR THE EUROS HAD ASKED AMERICAN BACK UP IN THE LAST 30 YEARS SAY ??


Does someone think that the NATO is not the US's pet ? For that matter, does someone remember the UK NOT backing up an american resolution in NATO for ... the entire inception of the thing ? :D

libya, yugoslavia, ukraine, syria