AK-47: Russian Pride or German Masterpiece?

[WarHeRo]

Here's a quick breakdown: Mikhail Kalashnikov, the so-called 'father' of the AK-47, wasn't the sole brain behind this firearm. Enter Hugo Schmeisser, the German legend behind the world's first assault rifle. There's a twisty tale of Kalashnikov and Schmeisser working together, with Schmeisser's contribution being suspiciously hush-hush (all thanks to classified Soviet documents 🤫).

Adding to the mystery, Kalashnikov's stories about the AK-47's design origins have flip-flopped over the years. From outright denial of any similarities with Schmeisser's designs to later admitting "a little bit of inspiration" and even collaboration!

And here's the kicker - while Kalashnikov was developing the AK-47 in one place, Schmeisser was in another, yet still under Soviet direction. Coincidence? I think not!

The early AK designs even had issues similar to Schmeisser's designs, further fueling the speculation. Plus, the USSR 'borrowed' a lot of Schmeisser's technical designs after WWII. 🕵️‍♂️

So, what's your take? Is the AK-47 a product of German engineering prowess, cleverly repackaged as a Soviet masterpiece? Or is it purely Russian innovation? Let's hear your thoughts on this intriguing piece of history!

sauce: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/03/14/designed-ak-47/

[BigBallinChester]

The AK-47 and it's variants have kill more people than any other weapon in history, women,children and all the like. Let the Russians take the reconigiton for this one, they certainly earned it.

[Stranger]

Escrito originalmente por Incarnate:

Escrito originalmente por Stranger:

no proper gas blowback. can't poof the mud out of the line, not a real gas blowback.

there was an entire line of post-war 44's that had good blowback, but bad everything else, which were presented as the authentic real deal.

infact there were so many damn versions that there is no such 'real one' ultimately.

it's where the idea for modular weapons systems came form.

Hell of a coincidence that the guy who invented the Stg and his engineers were literally forced to work for the USSR after the war, huh? : https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41367394

you mean porsche's line workers? yeah I guess. big coincidence they ditched them, given how many of them had been practically ordered to build guns wrong despite knowing better.

[cassette]

Escrito originalmente por Stranger:

the issue is that it creates an overpressure situation which blows partial fragments into the feed mechanism, the camming for the receiver cover, and/or the shooter's face (very rare, they added special shields for it,) this prevents proper operation of the firearm, and necessitates maintenance to fix, regardless of which issue happens. and the only real root cause appears to be the use of 5.56 ammunition.

at least most of that pressure is vented right down the magwell and the ejection port
number 1 reason I stay away from bullpups even ignoring ergonomics

[Stranger]

Escrito originalmente por Crasus:

The AK-47 and it's variants have kill more people than any other weapon in history, women,children and all the like. Let the Russians take the reconigiton for this one, they certainly earned it.

well it's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Pangean weapon. it predates history.

I think Nigers invented it? Nick's sub-country he made as a manufacturing tax haven? idk.

[Pierce Dalton]

Escrito originalmente por Stranger:

Escrito originalmente por Pierce Dalton:

Given its durability and reliability, I'm pretty sure it's a German invention, indeed.

Trying to figure out how to tap this Porsche joke into place without breaking something.

It's almost exactly like trying to load an STG mag without permanently stamping it into the gun. Hmm, how odd. I wonder why that is.

It wasn't a Porsche joke, more like a Volkswagen joke.

[Stranger]

Escrito originalmente por Pierce Dalton:

Escrito originalmente por Stranger:

Trying to figure out how to tap this Porsche joke into place without breaking something.

It's almost exactly like trying to load an STG mag without permanently stamping it into the gun. Hmm, how odd. I wonder why that is.

It wasn't a Porsche joke, more like a Volkswagen joke.

They merged during the war, then filed for it officially afterwards, then got broken up in a overly-sensationalized way which raised a lot of eyebrows about the government.

[Incarnate]

Escrito originalmente por Stranger:

Escrito originalmente por Ulfrinn:

There's nothing similar about either of them besides the cartridge they fire. AK has more in common with the US M1 family of rifles.

IIRC someone literally saw a BAR a German was using and said "build that!" and SOMEBODY did. Lots of someones.

We had a big argument about whether we should hide that it was a bar or not, to discourage the US from following the rather problematic design decisions they made with the bar (and which we fixed.) But facts are facts, I think.

Wtf are you talking about?

[Stranger]

Escrito originalmente por Incarnate:

Escrito originalmente por Stranger:

IIRC someone literally saw a BAR a German was using and said "build that!" and SOMEBODY did. Lots of someones.

We had a big argument about whether we should hide that it was a bar or not, to discourage the US from following the rather problematic design decisions they made with the bar (and which we fixed.) But facts are facts, I think.

Wtf are you talking about?

Japan and Russia were clandestine allies until late into WW2.

I was old enough to be an attache, work on the team of Japanese engineers helping to design the AK, and eventually got involved in field command planning. As I could actually understand and explain field of fire and defensive planning. I became a "general" in about two or three years. Which later came with real authhority, such that while working for the CIA I was also heading up Russian activity on the west coast, and that both sides knew this. They had to have a uniform custom-made with extra-large lapels and reinforcement to hold all of my legitimately-acquired medals, and this later became the fashion everyone emulated in the combloc.

So if you want to ignore the Pangaen timeline, it's a Japanese gun.

[Incarnate]

Escrito originalmente por Stranger:

Escrito originalmente por Incarnate:

Wtf are you talking about?

Japan and Russia were clandestine allies until late into WW2.

I was old enough to be an attache, work on the team of Japanese engineers helping to design the AK, and eventually got involved in field command planning. As I could actually understand and explain field of fire and defensive planning. I became a "general" in about two or three years. Which later came with real authhority, such that while working for the CIA I was also heading up Russian activity on the west coast, and that both sides knew this. They had to have a uniform custom-made with extra-large lapels and reinforcement to hold all of my legitimately-acquired medals, and this later became the fashion everyone emulated in the combloc.

So if you want to ignore the Pangaen timeline, it's a Japanese gun.

Lol. Okay. I wondered if time-travel factored into this anecdote.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Fumo Bnnuy n Frends]

Aks are trash overrated basically muskets by how reliable they are in comparison to the more advanced sleek grey / metallic ARs

[cassette]

Escrito originalmente por Fumo Christmas Bnnuy n Frends:

Aks are trash overrated basically muskets by how reliable they are in comparison to the more advanced sleek grey / metallic ARs

AKs arent unreliable under most environmental conditions
they're just hideously incapable of modernization and require a lot of tooling to assemble and maintenance

[Tiberius]

Escrito originalmente por Fumo Christmas Bnnuy n Frends:

Aks are trash overrated basically muskets by how reliable they are in comparison to the more advanced sleek grey / metallic ARs

I have shot the AKM numerous times and my father has served with the Ak-47 numerous years.
It was accurate, reliable and effective and absolutely nothing like a " trash overrated musket ".

I as a civilian also prefer the AR-15 because it feels lighter, has less of a recoil and is therefore more fun to shoot and carry, but if one would throw me into a war for 5 years and ask me what gun I would take, I would choose the AKM and nothing else.

[WarHeRo]

Escrito originalmente por Stranger:

I was old enough to be an attache, work on the team of Japanese engineers helping to design the AK

proof?

[vkobe]

Escrito originalmente por WarHeRo:

Here's a quick breakdown: Mikhail Kalashnikov, the so-called 'father' of the AK-47, wasn't the sole brain behind this firearm. Enter Hugo Schmeisser, the German legend behind the world's first assault rifle. There's a twisty tale of Kalashnikov and Schmeisser working together, with Schmeisser's contribution being suspiciously hush-hush (all thanks to classified Soviet documents 🤫).

Adding to the mystery, Kalashnikov's stories about the AK-47's design origins have flip-flopped over the years. From outright denial of any similarities with Schmeisser's designs to later admitting "a little bit of inspiration" and even collaboration!

And here's the kicker - while Kalashnikov was developing the AK-47 in one place, Schmeisser was in another, yet still under Soviet direction. Coincidence? I think not! :winter2019coolyul:

The early AK designs even had issues similar to Schmeisser's designs, further fueling the speculation. Plus, the USSR 'borrowed' a lot of Schmeisser's technical designs after WWII. 🕵️‍♂️

So, what's your take? Is the AK-47 a product of German engineering prowess, cleverly repackaged as a Soviet masterpiece? Or is it purely Russian innovation? Let's hear your thoughts on this intriguing piece of history! :cozycsgoctwhite:

sauce: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/03/14/designed-ak-47/

depend does spacex is american pride or german/chinese masterpiece ?

[Scorpion]

And? Post war, a great number of german scientists flew to the usa, where they shared tech with americans and developed projects on their behalf for years to come, especially on rockets.

If russians "borrowed" one thing, others grabbed the entire arsenal.

Besides, the modern German junk, is utterly destroyed or properly captured, in ukraine. Leopard 2? Iris T? You name it, they got it!