Should we disband the NATO?

[=(^ ^)=]

Since the war in Palestine and Israel happened, Ukraine, who was supported by the EU and the USA, has lost a lot of weapons that were meant to be sold to them, but are being sold to Israel.

All the NATO did were 2 stupid wars in Iraq and Afghanistan because of that war criminal of bush who invocked the article 11 claiming the 9/11 was an attack against a NATO country.

Then they made a disaster war in the ex-Yugoslavia where for months they did nothing but bombing Bosnia.

For the rest, the NATO is nothing but an huge military expense for every country who is part of it.

We spend money, they do nothing.

If Ukraine doesn't get back its lands, and the NATO does nothing, I think we should disband this failure money waster of an alliance.

[Dom]

Triple G の投稿を引用：

Dom の投稿を引用：

If you plant trees, also meaning increasing the carbon sinks, to an extent that it absorbs as much CO2 from the atmosphere as you emitted into the atmosphere, then you've compensated your emissions fully and your actions are carbon neutral. It doesn't matter if you emit if the same amount gets absorbed and does not remain in the atmosphere.

Yes - that´s how it works in theory. In practice it works that way, that the same piece of land gets sold multiple times, and is in areas, which are protected anyways.

And the meetings are probably more some kind of tax paid vacations. I´m actually unsure if i heard that Germany sends a delegation of like 250 people. Why not 2 people?

And like said - since the beginning of these meetings they say that they want to reduce emissions, but they produce more emissions every single year...

Delegations are often business representatives that the government takes with them because they have something to offer to those discussions. My guess would be that it includes the IT sector and solar and wind companies. Lithium companies, EVs too.

[talemore]

=(^ ^)= の投稿を引用：

Pieshaman の投稿を引用：

I really doubt that so soon, cause test flights are scheduled for 2027
edit: and that only the expectation.

We will see because test flishgt don't last decades. But the fact France has developed a 6th generation fight jet better than the F35 who is 5th generation, means a lot.

Obsolete. Jet planes became obsolete 1962-1964 and the 2 superpowers were the only nations with ICBM

The other countries had jetplanes but USA and Sovjet had ICBM

[Dom]

Blunt Raps の投稿を引用：

Dom の投稿を引用：

Yet the actions that they take compensate the emissions of all those private jets combined.

Such actions are available for "regular folks" as well. You've probably seen some of those flight programs in which you can compensate the emissions of your flight by paying to plant trees. They have been a good success in combating climate change issues in aviation.

It doesnt tho, like at all.. The elite 1% emit 2/3 of pollution.

And we're supposed to pay tax to offset THEIR destructive behaviour?

Im in canada, 2nd largest country by land mass, and its mostly uninhabited. Its just trees as far as the eyes, from an airplane, can see lol.... And we're paying a carbon tax. Makes no sense, we clean the worlds air.

Theres no way we can make a difference if elites and chinese industries put no effort in. Its a fraud.

The "elite" is a very limited amount of people so they cannot emit 2/3 of the pollution.

Besides, most emissions out there are from factories and energy sector. We're talking about 75%. Aviation makes up 2% of the world's emissions. So when we talk about private jets and where the issue actually lies percentage-wise, we should keep the numbers in our minds.

Of course people can "lead by example" or do green posing if that's what the climate denialists want but I don't think that is really the path forward.

[=(^ ^)=]

talemore の投稿を引用：

=(^ ^)= の投稿を引用：

We will see because test flishgt don't last decades. But the fact France has developed a 6th generation fight jet better than the F35 who is 5th generation, means a lot.

Obsolete. Jet planes became obsolete 1962-1964 and the 2 superpowers were the only nations with ICBM

The other countries had jetplanes but USA and Sovjet had ICBM

Well, to stop an ICBM they might have a problem, but jets are used to destroy helicopters, to stop planes carrying paratroopers, to take down bombers, and they are capable to destroy missiles, radars and expecially the navy.

[talemore]

Yes we can put superior weapons on the jet planes but it's just platform for a launcher.

Later on mini versions of ICBM became the new weapon where you could fire the missiles beyond horizon.

Most if not all the rights for the weapons are owned by USA that even if they build the jetplanes they have nothing to shoot with.

It's why Europe afraid to send jetplanes to Ukraine is a Europe security breach rather than a superpower state problem.

[Blunt Raps]

Dom の投稿を引用：

Blunt Raps の投稿を引用：

It doesnt tho, like at all.. The elite 1% emit 2/3 of pollution.

And we're supposed to pay tax to offset THEIR destructive behaviour?

Im in canada, 2nd largest country by land mass, and its mostly uninhabited. Its just trees as far as the eyes, from an airplane, can see lol.... And we're paying a carbon tax. Makes no sense, we clean the worlds air.

Theres no way we can make a difference if elites and chinese industries put no effort in. Its a fraud.

The "elite" is a very limited amount of people so they cannot emit 2/3 of the pollution.

Besides, most emissions out there are from factories and energy sector. We're talking about 75%. Aviation makes up 2% of the world's emissions. So when we talk about private jets and where the issue actually lies percentage-wise, we should keep the numbers in our minds.

Of course people can "lead by example" or do green posing if that's what the climate denialists want but I don't think that is really the path forward.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/20/richest-1-account-for-more-carbon-emissions-than-poorest-66-report-says

Tell it to the guardian

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/07/world/billionaires-greenhouse-gases-climate-intl/index.html

And cnn then

And countless other news outlets.

[Blunt Raps]

Most of our industries have emissions regulated.

We cant make any worthwhile difference at all while other countries, who produce significantly more than the west, have no regulations.

[Dom]

Blunt Raps の投稿を引用：

Dom の投稿を引用：

The "elite" is a very limited amount of people so they cannot emit 2/3 of the pollution.

Besides, most emissions out there are from factories and energy sector. We're talking about 75%. Aviation makes up 2% of the world's emissions. So when we talk about private jets and where the issue actually lies percentage-wise, we should keep the numbers in our minds.

Of course people can "lead by example" or do green posing if that's what the climate denialists want but I don't think that is really the path forward.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/20/richest-1-account-for-more-carbon-emissions-than-poorest-66-report-says

Tell it to the guardian

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/07/world/billionaires-greenhouse-gases-climate-intl/index.html

And cnn then

And countless other news outlets.

I just mentioned this in my earlier comment.
Does the poorest 66% own factories or energy companies? Likely not.

Of course they are owned by the richest so therefore it is possible to say that they are responsible for those emissions.

Would you like to restrict factories and energy sector in a manner that emissions are progressively reduced and later on a complete green transition is done, so that the rich mentioned in the article does not emit? That is certainly good to know. You're welcome to support the climate actions that have been discussed in Canada and elsewhere.

And implementing the carbon taxes on those industries as well.

[Blunt Raps]

Dom の投稿を引用：

Blunt Raps の投稿を引用：

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/20/richest-1-account-for-more-carbon-emissions-than-poorest-66-report-says

Tell it to the guardian

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/07/world/billionaires-greenhouse-gases-climate-intl/index.html

And cnn then

And countless other news outlets.

I just mentioned this in my earlier comment.
Does the poorest 66% own factories or energy companies? Likely not.

Of course they are owned by the richest so therefore it is possible to say that they are responsible for those emissions.

Would you like to restrict factories and energy sector in a manner that emissions are progressively reduced and later on a complete green transition is done, so that the rich mentioned in the article does not emit? That is certainly good to know. You're welcome to support the climate actions that have been discussed in Canada and elsewhere.

And implementing the carbon taxes on those industries as well.

No i dont want to a pay dime on behalf of the unfathomably wealthy, who refuse to regulate themselves or their buddies.

Its a scam. And veteran climatologists say its a scam.

[Dom]

Blunt Raps の投稿を引用：

Dom の投稿を引用：

I just mentioned this in my earlier comment.
Does the poorest 66% own factories or energy companies? Likely not.

Of course they are owned by the richest so therefore it is possible to say that they are responsible for those emissions.

Would you like to restrict factories and energy sector in a manner that emissions are progressively reduced and later on a complete green transition is done, so that the rich mentioned in the article does not emit? That is certainly good to know. You're welcome to support the climate actions that have been discussed in Canada and elsewhere.

And implementing the carbon taxes on those industries as well.

No i dont want to a pay dime on behalf of the unfathomably wealthy, who refuse to regulate themselves or their buddies.

Its a scam. And veteran climatologists say its a scam.

So, uhh, no restrictions on factories owned by the rich. No restrictions on energy sector owned by the rich. No carbon taxes on industries owned by the rich that would incentivize greener solutions. Nothing.

So wait... you're literally complaining about the issue that the rich are responsible for the emissions but you want nothing done that would limit their possibilities to do so. Why do you raise this problem if you support its continuation yourself?

[Blunt Raps]

Dom の投稿を引用：

Blunt Raps の投稿を引用：

No i dont want to a pay dime on behalf of the unfathomably wealthy, who refuse to regulate themselves or their buddies.

Its a scam. And veteran climatologists say its a scam.

So, uhh, no restrictions on factories owned by the rich. No restrictions on energy sector owned by the rich. No carbon taxes on industries owned by the rich that would incentivize greener solutions. Nothing.

So wait... you're literally complaining about the issue that the rich are responsible for the emissions but you want nothing done that would limit their possibilities to do so. Why do you raise this problem if you support its continuation yourself?

No

I HAVE TO PAY TAX FOR THEIR POLLUTION..... Me. Not bill gates, not the big polluters in china. Me.

Its not just on industry. Its on people heating their homes and filling their cars. Its ridiculous.... Meanwhile they cant use zoom for international meetings. They'll just put it on our tab, right?

[Dom]

Blunt Raps の投稿を引用：

Dom の投稿を引用：

So, uhh, no restrictions on factories owned by the rich. No restrictions on energy sector owned by the rich. No carbon taxes on industries owned by the rich that would incentivize greener solutions. Nothing.

So wait... you're literally complaining about the issue that the rich are responsible for the emissions but you want nothing done that would limit their possibilities to do so. Why do you raise this problem if you support its continuation yourself?

No

I HAVE TO PAY TAX FOR THEIR POLLUTION..... Me. Not bill gates, not the big polluters in china. Me.

Its not just on industry. Its on people heating their homes and filling their cars. Its ridiculous.... Meanwhile they cant use zoom for international meetings. They'll just put it on our tab, right?

By all logic you would be in favor of reducing the pollution of the industries and companies that they own then. If you argue that you're paying a tax everytime they pollute. So it's very clear what the solution is. Why not support policies which progressively require them to reduce pollution and later on do a complete green transition of those industries?

So you would support policies that require them to stop pollution? It's a simple question.

[Triple G]

Dom の投稿を引用：

Delegations are often business representatives that the government takes with them because they have something to offer to those discussions. My guess would be that it includes the IT sector and solar and wind companies. Lithium companies, EVs too.

Just looked it up. 60 people from the foreign ministry. Ministry for economy and climate 47. And chancellery 40. Which means 147 tax paid people. And the rest might be the mentioned lobbyists, probably also tax paid for that trip...

And delegation here means all the people who officially go there. Like if there´s Olympic games - it´s the sports people, and the staff. The delegation. While i don´t think the send doctors and cooks to Dubai.

And there should be 70k in Dubai in general by all nations. I´m just curious how many selfies they do - or videos of the food and scenery. Like You do it on vacations. While i also imagine that the result is as always: "No real breakthrough - but a good foundation for the future. We´re optimistic." while the press says: "Sobering."

[Dom]

Triple G の投稿を引用：

Dom の投稿を引用：

Delegations are often business representatives that the government takes with them because they have something to offer to those discussions. My guess would be that it includes the IT sector and solar and wind companies. Lithium companies, EVs too.

Just looked it up. 60 people from the foreign ministry. Ministry for economy and climate 47. And chancellery 40. Which means 147 tax paid people. And the rest might be the mentioned lobbyists, probably also tax paid for that trip...

And delegation here means all the people who officially go there. Like if there´s Olympic games - it´s the sports people, and the staff. The delegation. While i don´t think the send doctors and cooks to Dubai.

And there should be 70k in Dubai in general by all nations. I´m just curious how many selfies they do - or videos of the food and scenery. Like You do it on vacations. While i also imagine that the result is as always: "No real breakthrough - but a good foundation for the future. We´re optimistic." while the press says: "Sobering."

The thing is, it is only considered bad because it's climate meeting. There are tons of meetings and conferences around other topics which the governments and delegations participate in on a frequent basis (with tax money) but they don't get that same criticism. The climate meeting is held to a completely different standard. There are only few bigger international climate meetings annually. I would argue that it has its place as much as sports/olympics do or say, NATO meetings for instance.

[Pocahawtness]

Hobbit XIII の投稿を引用：

And the OP is allowed to vote, this is what is wrong with democracy.

This is very true and it's becoming very dangerous.

People are very polarised right now, and "experts", yet half of them are nothing more than armchair politicians with little clue about the real world.

This is what happens when the people stop trusting the politicians. The politicians are to blame for that, but you can bet your life that the ordinary people will pay the price.

NATO is for the smaller countries. It is to ensure that all the countries in the alliance act as one. As Britain has found out with Brexit, most countries are just too small now to have much influence in this modern world. One by one, smaller countries would fall to larger ones. This is the way of the world.

There seems to be a wave of "isolationism" in the USA at the moment. This extremely dangerous. It's based on the misguided belief that if America withdraws from the world then the world will leave America alone. It won't.