Vegan diet is ultimately healthier

[Holografix]

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2023/11/twin-diet-vegan-cardiovascular.html

[Morkonan]

Holografix lähetti viestin:

Vegan diet is ultimately healthier

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2023/11/twin-diet-vegan-cardiovascular.html

This has widely been acknowledged as "generally true." But... that "vegan" died thing has a wide variety of commonly accepted definitions.

Something to note that's equally, if not more important:

...Although our findings suggest that vegan diets offer a protective cardiometabolic advantage compared with a healthy, omnivorous diet, excluding all meats and/or dairy products may not be necessary because research22,50 suggests that cardiovascular benefits can be achieved with modest reductions in animal foods and increases in healthy plant-based foods compared with typical diets. We believe lower dietary satisfaction in the vegan group may have been attributable to the strictness of the vegan diet, creating more barriers for people to follow the vegan diet guidelines. Some people may find a less restrictive diet preferable for LDL-C–lowering effects...

What that means is that a full vegan diet may not be necessary to achieve very desirable results - Lowering one's meat consumption can have good benefits, especially over the long-term. That may be more desirable for some and likely would reduce the need for dietary supplements.

"Strict" veganism is not necessary to achieve desirable results.

[Heitor Villa-Lobos]

Enterprofilenamehere lähetti viestin:

Only if you watch what you eat, which is what most vegans have to do. Meat can be part of a healthy diet in moderation, but most people don't eat meat because it's healthy, they eat it because it tastes good and makes them happy, something which cannot be quantified in a study. People aren't robots and deserve the right to choose what they eat without dumb judgement and pointless arguing.

It is a straw man argument: no one is taking away the "right" to eat dead animals, or even discussing it.

But by the same logic, people should be able to choose what enters their bodies, like recreational drugs.

One plant, in particular, is less harmful to oneself, others, and the environment than animal flesh, but it is prohibited in most countries...

[hai, how are you :)]

Heitor Villa-Lobos lähetti viestin:

l4d2 toxic? watch?v=oZEVcygznoY lähetti viestin:

1) It's not murder. Living things eat other living things, it's the cycle of life
2) No, it's not. No matter how I season tofu it still tastes like dogsh*t.

Please don't reply me. You are highly offensive. Please work on your own issues instead of attacking others.

Thanks.

-wasn't attacking, just refuting nonsense.
-if you don't want anyone to reply to you, don't post on a public forum, snowflake.
-try to come up with actual points/arguments instead of ad homs

Thanks.

[Heitor Villa-Lobos]

Morkonan lähetti viestin:

What that means is that a full vegan diet may not be necessary to achieve very desirable results - Lowering one's meat consumption can have good benefits, especially over the long-term. That may be more desirable for some and likely would reduce the need for dietary supplements.

"Strict" veganism is not necessary to achieve desirable results.

This.

It is better for literally *everyone*, specially on the environment, if everyone reduced the intake of animal protein (and fat!!!) than a few thousand more vegans.

[Heitor Villa-Lobos]

l4d2 toxic? watch?v=oZEVcygznoY lähetti viestin:

Heitor Villa-Lobos lähetti viestin:

Please don't reply me. You are highly offensive. Please work on your own issues instead of attacking others.

Thanks.

-wasn't attacking, just refuting nonsense.
-if you don't want anyone to reply to you, don't post on a public forum, snowflake.
-try to come up with actual points/arguments instead of ad homs

Thanks.

You are attacking, saying very bad things about vegetarians and their food. Also, I don't apreciate you calling me "snowflake" and telling me what to do. You don't tell me where I should or shouldn't be.

Also, I asked to not reply me, and you took that as an invitation. You clearly don't understand boundaries or consent.

You call other people "social outcast" for no reason, but you are displaying very antisocial behaviour.

Welcome to my block list.

[tom tomorrow]

There are studies that show a vegan diet is healthier, but there's an equal number of studies that show the opposite.

If you look at meta-analyses of these studies, it quite clearly points to the two main factors being a high intake of fibre and a low intake of saturated fats.

When it comes to general nutritional health, whether or not you consume animal products is more or less irrelevant. Fibre and saturated fats are what matter. You also have to consider that, on average, vegans are much more health conscious. The average omnivore puts little thought into what they're consuming.

Source: I'm a pathologist working in food safety. I study this kind of stuff for a living.

[hai, how are you :)]

Heitor Villa-Lobos lähetti viestin:

l4d2 toxic? watch?v=oZEVcygznoY lähetti viestin:

-wasn't attacking, just refuting nonsense.
-if you don't want anyone to reply to you, don't post on a public forum, snowflake.
-try to come up with actual points/arguments instead of ad homs

Thanks.

You are attacking, saying very bad things about vegetarians and their food. Also, I don't apreciate you calling me "snowflake" and telling me what to do. You don't tell me where I should or shouldn't be.

Also, I asked to not reply me, and you took that as an invitation. You clearly don't understand boundaries or consent.

You call other people "social outcast" for no reason, but you are displaying very antisocial behaviour.

Welcome to my block list.

You're literally out here calling meat eaters murderers, lol, as well as spreading nonsense about taste, obviously I'm going to respond.

I don't care if some random snowflake blocks me, your choice, I suppose. Enjoy your circle-jerking echo chamber.

Can't come up with a counter-argument so you block, weak coward. LOL!

[Enterprofilenamehere]

Heitor Villa-Lobos lähetti viestin:

Enterprofilenamehere lähetti viestin:

Only if you watch what you eat, which is what most vegans have to do. Meat can be part of a healthy diet in moderation, but most people don't eat meat because it's healthy, they eat it because it tastes good and makes them happy, something which cannot be quantified in a study. People aren't robots and deserve the right to choose what they eat without dumb judgement and pointless arguing.

It is a straw man argument: no one is taking away the "right" to eat dead animals, or even discussing it.

But by the same logic, people should be able to choose what enters their bodies, like recreational drugs.

One plant, in particular, is less harmful to oneself, others, and the environment than animal flesh, but it is prohibited in most countries...

I didn't intend to make a straw man argument. I was just anticipating how I know this thread is going to play out. There are many vegans that would like to see meat consumption banned, but I recognize they are quite small in number compared to those who just want to eat healthier.

[Morkonan]

Heitor Villa-Lobos lähetti viestin:

..specially on the environment, if everyone reduced the intake of animal protein (and fat!!!) than a few thousand more vegans.

Just as an aside - That's a definite "maybe." It's very difficult to quantify in terms of practicality, despite reports and studies about methane and yield/area of protein/food. It would need to be part of a much larger effort that... kinda might not be "doable" right now. Should it be shifted towards? Yes. But, planting, fertilizing, harvesting, and transporting the crops needed to replace those calories would have an impact as well. Replacing animals where they are with suitable crops might not be possible, so then you have to transport crops or genetically engineer suitable crops to grow there in enough abundance to fill the need. (eg: That is being done in some places. IIRC, India is doing that with some GMO'd corn.)

ie: Yes, but then there's the really difficult bits to consider. :)

[Shiro♌]

Hmm.. Maybe so, but isn't it like.. Two times or three times as expensive in the end?
Meaning, only the rich people can truly afford such a diet..

[steven1mac]

One of the problem with most of the studies is the small sample sized involved.

[TwisterCat]

It was never about health. It's always been a statement.

I'm quite sure those packaged noodles you buy are infinitely worse for you than meat. Still buy 'em.

I'll eat what tastes good. How it goes.

[hai, how are you :)]

Shiro♌ lähetti viestin:

Hmm.. Maybe so, but isn't it like.. Two times or three times as expensive in the end?
Meaning, only the rich people can truly afford such a diet..

I see this confusion about price all the time... not sure where it comes from... but, 2 pounds of beans is like what, a few dollars (same goes for rice/pasta)? Whereas a couple of pounds of beef is what, 20?

[Shiro♌]

l4d2 toxic? watch?v=oZEVcygznoY lähetti viestin:

Shiro♌ lähetti viestin:

Hmm.. Maybe so, but isn't it like.. Two times or three times as expensive in the end?
Meaning, only the rich people can truly afford such a diet..

I see this confusion about price all the time... not sure where it comes from... but, 2 pounds of beans is like what, a few dollars (same goes for rice/pasta)? Whereas a couple of pounds of beef is what, 20?

That's just one thing, but the variety is what's supposed to be and shall be considered.. Not just a few things that are way too easy to nitpick, because that's not how people do eat.
They don't eat the same meat every single day, but different kinds of meats, sometimes even pass on the meat from time to time and go for something different.

[Morkonan]

mf tom lähetti viestin:

There are studies that show a vegan diet is healthier, but there's an equal number of studies that show the opposite.

If you look at meta-analyses of these studies, it quite clearly points to the two main factors being a high intake of fibre and a low intake of saturated fats.

When it comes to general nutritional health, whether or not you consume animal products is more or less irrelevant. Fibre and saturated fats are what matter. You also have to consider that, on average, vegans are much more health conscious. The average omnivore puts little thought into what they're consuming.

Source: I'm a pathologist working in food safety. I study this kind of stuff for a living.

Great! Then, could you provide citations for the "equal number of studies that show the opposite?"

I'm not a vegan and won't ever be and I don't have a dog in this fight... I stay out of such arguments of "absolutes."

For "pure" veganism, I might agree with you just as a matter of practical sense - Most people couldn't find the few rare foods needed to provide all of the nutritional requirements of a pure vegan diet. Not everyone has a "Vegan Whole Foods" next door. My grocery store sucks, so I'd quickly be B12 deficient without supplements if I was a vegan. Which I never plan on being. I also only eat a limited amount of certain meats just by preference. /shrug

But, that they're actually "the opposite" in some other way isn't something I've read about. So... "citation please?" :)

PS: Pardon, but couldn't resist - "Dietary Pathologist"... read a certain way sounds like you study "poop." :)