Try to convert me to veganism (change my mind)

[hai, how are you :)]

The way I see it, there are 2 main components to the vegan argument.
1) Environmentalism
2) Moral supremacy ('hurting'/'killing' animals is wrong)

I'll address both of those shortly. But first of all, I will say, yes, I do see vegans as a threat. Why? Because I think a lot of them, maybe even the majority of them (hard to pinpoint), want to illegalize eating animal products. I think that's their end goal even if some of them are not willing to openly admit it. I don't think they want people to have choice, that's why they don't keep veganism to themselves but rather constantly make youtube videos about it to try to convert others to their side and then ultimately achieve their end goal, which is enforcement of diet.

So the first one... environmentalism. Who's to say that the objective cut off point to save our environment in terms of diet is veganism? It's less damaging than other types of diet, so what? Did you know eating beef is worse for our environment than eating chicken?

So if we have two people, one named Bob, the other named Josh, and Bob only eats chicken in terms of animal products and Josh only eats meat as far as animal products are concerned, does that mean Bob is 'vegan' just because his impact on the environment is not as significant?

What about Mary who doesn't eat any animal products but occasionally eats some cheese vs Jane who doesn't eat any animal products but eats a ton of almonds (which, relatively speaking, require a ton more water to be produced than other nuts, i.e almonds exert a relatively large negative impact on the environment)? Who's vegan in that case trying to save the environment? Mary might even have a more environmentally friendly diet even though she consumes a little bit of animal products!

Lastly, all of us leave some sort of environmental impact. Do you drive a car? Take transit? You're ruining the environment. Even if you drive an electric car, dead battery disposal and even battery manufacturing is an environmental issue. Do you have a trashcan in your house? You're ruining the environment.

If you want to save the environment so bad, just become a far-right activist and advocate for closed borders. Or as the simpletons call them, 'fascists'. There's no reason China should have 1 billion people, 100 million people there is enough. No reason Africa should have over a billion, 100 mill is enough there (that way they won't be overpopulated and want to migrate). No reason USA should have 350 or whatever million people, 50 is enough. So on, so forth. If the west closes its borders, we'll eventually plummet to those numbers and guess what, the environment will be better off (and, there'll be less meat eaters!). Just become a fascist and save the environment bro!

___________________

As far as the moral supremacy and 'murdering' animals goes...

That's just how the world works. Cattle are meant to be food for omnivores and carnivores.
Tigers and lions kill and eat zebras/deer all the time, sometimes in excruciating and extremely painful/long ways. I'd rather have the deer be killed in 1 second at a farm in a slaughterhouse or whatever than be eaten alive for 1 hour and be alive for half of that time.

Humans are apex predators, who are these vegan beta cucks to tell me, an apex predator, what to eat? Are you kidding me? Not gonna happen.

But humans don't REQUIRE meat products to survive, lions do!
There's a reason, according to some studies, that most vegans take vitamin/mineral supplementation, because B12, for example, is hard to get from a vegan diet.
What if I don't trust big pharma (say, in 30 years we find out some of the companies had carcinogens or whatever in their b12 supplement) and want to get all my nutrients from actual food?

I could probably get my b12 and all the other things vegans are usually deficient in from a carefully planned diet, and eating certain other plant foods, fine.

But what about the taste? What if I and millions of others hate eating vegan food (especially the ones that provide the extra b12 for example), and it gives me and millions of others a great deal of mental distress/depression? How's that not a valid consideration?

Killing animals? What about killing plants?
Chopping up a spinach plant and eating it kills some part of it, why is that okay and not eating a mouse or something (mice and rats are disgusting! Aren't they?)? Or how about an oyster (which doesn't appear to have a central nervous system)?

I think some sacrifices are ok to make for the well being of humans (i.e doing it for taste).

Finally, how far are you willing to take this moral supremacy thing - i.e you shouldn't eat animals because it harms them since you're just doing it for fun?

Lemme give you an example that would close to eliminate rape, but at the cost of great pleasure and quality of life (feminists are like, wow this guy is onto something, we should totally do this!)

We could divide the USA into two sections of land, one for women, one for men, and completely isolate them. This way, it would eliminate any sort of rape from happening. I know what you're thinking, how would we procreate? Well, easy, you could just implement an artificial insemination method which is contactless (physically). The men could ejaculate into a jar, that jar would then be sent over the gender border to some woman, and then her womb could get inseminated. My point is that physical sex and all the pleasures that come with it can be completely taken out of the equation without affecting birth rates. As a side note, imagine all the times humans have sex with a condom, it's useless! That's just for fun and serves no real function, that would be eliminated as well.

Should we make sacrifices and let some rapes happen in the name of much higher quality of life and less loneliness overall, or should we implement the Orwellian nightmare above but with the benefit of eliminating rape?

Similarly, how far are you willing to go with your vegan moral supermacy and 'not hurting' animals? At what cost?

Your headphones probably involved some child abuse (underage kids working overtime for little money in a third world country), that goes for many other products in your house. Some of your medicines you take or have taken probably involved some animal abuse (experimentation on them), so stop trying to take the moral high ground. Your existence is an abomination.

[【ボス B o s s】]

Цитата допису l4d2 toxic? /watch?v=oZEVcygznoY:

The way I see it, there are 2 main components to the vegan argument.
1) Environmentalism
2) Moral supremacy ('hurting'/'killing' animals is wrong)

I'll address both of those shortly. But first of all, I will say, yes, I do see vegans as a threat. Why? Because I think a lot of them, maybe even the majority of them (hard to pinpoint), want to illegalize eating animal products. I think that's their end goal even if some of them are not willing to openly admit it. I don't think they want people to have choice, that's why they don't keep veganism to themselves but rather constantly make youtube videos about it to try to convert others to their side and then ultimately achieve their end goal, which is enforcement of diet.

So the first one... environmentalism. Who's to say that the objective cut off point to save our environment in terms of diet is veganism? It's less damaging than other types of diet, so what? Did you know eating beef is worse for our environment than eating chicken?

So if we have two people, one named Bob, the other named Josh, and Bob only eats chicken in terms of animal products and Josh only eats meat as far as animal products are concerned, does that mean Bob is 'vegan' just because his impact on the environment is not as significant?

What about Mary who doesn't eat any animal products but occasionally eats some cheese vs Jane who doesn't eat any animal products but eats a ton of almonds (which, relatively speaking, require a ton more water to be produced than other nuts, i.e almonds exert a relatively large negative impact on the environment)? Who's vegan in that case trying to save the environment? Mary might even have a more environmentally friendly diet even though she consumes a little bit of animal products!

Lastly, all of us leave some sort of environmental impact. Do you drive a car? Take transit? You're ruining the environment. Even if you drive an electric car, dead battery disposal and even battery manufacturing is an environmental issue. Do you have a trashcan in your house? You're ruining the environment.

If you want to save the environment so bad, just become a far-right activist and advocate for closed borders. Or as the simpletons call them, 'fascists'. There's no reason China should have 1 billion people, 100 million people there is enough. No reason Africa should have over a billion, 100 mill is enough there (that way they won't be overpopulated and want to migrate). No reason USA should have 350 or whatever million people, 50 is enough. So on, so forth. If the west closes its borders, we'll eventually plummet to those numbers and guess what, the environment will be better off (and, there'll be less meat eaters!). Just become a fascist and save the environment bro!

___________________

As far as the moral supremacy and 'murdering' animals goes...

That's just how the world works. Cattle are meant to be food for omnivores and carnivores.
Tigers and lions kill and eat zebras/deer all the time, sometimes in excruciating and extremely painful/long ways. I'd rather have the deer be killed in 1 second at a farm in a slaughterhouse or whatever than be eaten alive for 1 hour and be alive for half of that time.

Humans are apex predators, who are these vegan beta cucks to tell me, an apex predator, what to eat? Are you kidding me? Not gonna happen.

But humans don't REQUIRE meat products to survive, lions do!
There's a reason, according to some studies, that most vegans take vitamin/mineral supplementation, because B12, for example, is hard to get from a vegan diet.
What if I don't trust big pharma (say, in 30 years we find out some of the companies had carcinogens or whatever in their b12 supplement) and want to get all my nutrients from actual food?

I could probably get my b12 and all the other things vegans are usually deficient in from a carefully planned diet, and eating certain other plant foods, fine.

But what about the taste? What if I and millions of others hate eating vegan food (especially the ones that provide the extra b12 for example), and it gives me and millions of others a great deal of mental distress/depression? How's that not a valid consideration?

Killing animals? What about killing plants?
Chopping up a spinach plant and eating it kills some part of it, why is that okay and not eating a mouse or something (mice and rats are disgusting! Aren't they?)? Or how about an oyster (which doesn't appear to have a central nervous system)?

I think some sacrifices are ok to make for the well being of humans (i.e doing it for taste).

Finally, how far are you willing to take this moral supremacy thing - i.e you shouldn't eat animals because it harms them since you're just doing it for fun?

Lemme give you an example that would close to eliminate rape, but at the cost of great pleasure and quality of life (feminists are like, wow this guy is onto something, we should totally do this!)

We could divide the USA into two sections of land, one for women, one for men, and completely isolate them. This way, it would eliminate any sort of rape from happening. I know what you're thinking, how would we procreate? Well, easy, you could just implement an artificial insemination method which is contactless (physically). The men could ejaculate into a jar, that jar would then be sent over the gender border to some woman, and then her womb could get inseminated. My point is that physical sex and all the pleasures that come with it can be completely taken out of the equation without affecting birth rates. As a side note, imagine all the times humans have sex with a condom, it's useless! That's just for fun and serves no real function, that would be eliminated as well.

Should we make sacrifices and let some rapes happen in the name of much higher quality of life and less loneliness overall, or should we implement the Orwellian nightmare above but with the benefit of eliminating rape?

Similarly, how far are you willing to go with your vegan moral supermacy and 'not hurting' animals? At what cost?

Your headphones probably involved some child abuse (underage kids working overtime for little money in a third world country), that goes for many other products in your house. Some of your medicines you take or have taken probably involved some animal abuse (experimentation on them), so stop trying to take the moral high ground. Your existence is an abomination.

https://youtu.be/XWxKBjaq638

[ImSoCool599]

I aint reading allat, stay safe tho

[Slim]

Your willy will taste better to women.

[Schindler's Lifts]

Honestly, I want to like the vegan movement. I've seen the deplorable conditions of factory farms that are honestly unethical, and it needs to change.

But something about the language that they use doesn't sit right with me. There's a lot of "meat is bad", or "meat is gross and icky and nobody should eat it", or "killing animals bad". It's straying away from "we need to make changes to animal farming and save the environment" and it's approaching dangerously close to "vegan good, non vegan bad".

[St✩rlight]

Цитата допису Schindler's Lifts:

Honestly, I want to like the vegan movement. I've seen the deplorable conditions of factory farms that are honestly unethical, and it needs to change.

But something about the language that they use doesn't sit right with me. There's a lot of "meat is bad", or "meat is gross and icky and nobody should eat it", or "killing animals bad". It's straying away from "we need to make changes to animal farming and save the environment" and it's approaching dangerously close to "vegan good, non vegan bad".

There's literally only one person on this board who does that, and they are a joke account who pretends to be a japanese lesbian with 165 IQ.

[Ice Robertson]

Try to convert me to veganism (change my mind)

I would try but the pork and fennel sausages i had this week were gorgeous.

[Rebecca]

Vegans and vegetarians are idiots. Just leave them to their stupidity and moral superiority. We're supposed to eat meat and dairy. The only thing I'd say is that eating too much red meat is bad for you. A massive amount of dairy also isn't good either, will give you stomach trouble. Also eating extra vegetables is good rather than always eating lots meat all the time. Balance is better.

The environment is screwed anyway. May as well stop buying anything that has plastic packaging too. You could go on forever with that crap. Just don't be careless and do stupid things like littering or pouring hazardous substances down the drain. Its ridiculous to be vegan/vegetarian and sacrifice your health just for crap like that.

As for animals; the reality is that we need to eat meat so animals have to die for that. Animals will suffer too because of dairy products, but that's just how things are as there's so many of us. Its naive and ridiculous to get caught up in the morals of it. You'll get ill if you don't eat properly and you'll be hungry all the time too as vegan and vegetarian food isn't enough nutritionally and just won't fill you up.

I think vegans and vegetarians just want attention and to pretend like they're better than other people. Just makes me want to eat a huge cheeseburger in front of them. Morons...

[Grimmz]

i'm no biologist or historian but i'm pretty sure we didn't survive the stone age by eating grass.

anyway only plant that grows up here in north is reindeer.

[Ulfrinn]

Why do you assume vegan is more environmentally friendly? Most of what farm animals eat are byproducts that aren't going to the grocery store for human consumption. What would happen to those byproducts if they weren't fed to animals and converted into food that way? It'd be waste. And the plants that animals can eat and process tend to require less resources to grow than the ones for human consumption because if you hadn't noticed, herbivores as very well evolved at processing more types of vegetation than non herbivores. It's kind of their niche. They can eat straw, you can't.

Lastly, the "murder" aspect. How many field mice, squirrels, birds, etc not to mention insects do you think are killed to preserve a crop suitable for human consumption? And since herbivore consumption are able to use parts of the crops not specifically targeted by pests, or don't care if a grasshopper has been nibbling on it for a bit, it's less of an issue in vegetation grown for meat consumption. 1 cow is hundreds of pounds of meat that could supply a family of four with their red meat intake for 8 months to a year. How many "pests" die to provide the same?

So there is no environmental argument, there is no logistics argument, there is no moral argument. There's just a confirmation bias designed to prop up a misguided sense of moral superiority.

[Xero_Daxter]

Цитата допису Watermelon {JESUS IS LORD}:

veganism is bad you miss out on protein from meats

you need a balanced diet of meat poultry fruits and veggies otherwise you hurt your body

B-But I can take supplements.

[Rebecca]

Цитата допису Ulfrinn:

Why do you assume vegan is more environmentally friendly? Most of what farm animals eat are byproducts that aren't going to the grocery store for human consumption. What would happen to those byproducts if they weren't fed to animals and converted into food that way? It'd be waste. And the plants that animals can eat and process tend to require less resources to grow than the ones for human consumption because if you hadn't noticed, herbivores as very well evolved at processing more types of vegetation than non herbivores. It's kind of their niche. They can eat straw, you can't.

Lastly, the "murder" aspect. How many field mice, squirrels, birds, etc not to mention insects do you think are killed to preserve a crop suitable for human consumption? And since herbivore consumption are able to use parts of the crops not specifically targeted by pests, or don't care if a grasshopper has been nibbling on it for a bit, it's less of an issue in vegetation grown for meat consumption. 1 cow is hundreds of pounds of meat that could supply a family of four with their red meat intake for 8 months to a year. How many "pests" die to provide the same?

So there is no environmental argument, there is no logistics argument, there is no moral argument. There's just a confirmation bias designed to prop up a misguided sense of moral superiority.

Brilliantly said.

[Funky Monk]

Dont, vegan is boring

[Grindhouse]

It's enough for me if the animals I eat eat a vegan diet.

[Hobbit XIII]

A most selfish reason is you will learn to get more flavour into food and try out different types of food more often.
your taste buds will improve.

[Xautos]

Цитата допису l4d2 toxic? /watch?v=oZEVcygznoY:

Try to convert me to veganism (change my mind)

No, and it's your mind to change, change it yourself.

Some vitamins can't be gotten through any other means than by animals, even vegans need to source the same vitamins from somewhere or face a deficiency in their diets, for example Vitamin B12. it's needed to regulate the central nervous system and production of red blood cells.

if you don't get that B12 there is a whole range of serious medical complications can result from severe deficiency. it's not so much the need to eat the meat itself but rather what contains within the meat to keep human bodies in a good shape.