People are not purchasing EVs at the rate desired by the government.

[Groogo]

Electric cars and trucks are piling up on dealer lots, causing auto companies to reassess their investment plans. General Motors recently had to buy out almost half of the Buick dealerships nationwide as they refused to re-tool their service departments for EVs.

Ford Motor Company faced similar issues as almost half of Ford dealerships said that they do not want to sell electric vehicles. The flagship Ford F-100 Lighting is not selling and the CEO said that trying to drive an F-150 cross-country forced him to experience a reality check as they are just not selling.

Like wind and solar power the advertising (propaganda) has far out stretched the actual capabilities of these so called "Green" products.

[Ulfrinn]

Escrito originalmente por Hobbit XIII:

Escrito originalmente por Xero_Daxter:

I have an idea. Let's put solar panels on top of every EV so they can run forever.... as long as the sun is up, of course.

Your not far off the mark. There was an experiment with a fast vehicle using solar power probably the 90s or early 2000s I watched it on TV.
If only i could remember the speeds it got to. The one they used was out in the desert and low lying. It could hold the driver and that was about it.

Solar panels aren't the only way to turn sunlight into electricity though.

[Hobbit XIII]

Escrito originalmente por Ulfrinn:

Escrito originalmente por Hobbit XIII:

Your not far off the mark. There was an experiment with a fast vehicle using solar power probably the 90s or early 2000s I watched it on TV.
If only i could remember the speeds it got to. The one they used was out in the desert and low lying. It could hold the driver and that was about it.

Solar panels aren't the only way to turn sunlight into electricity though.

I have a theory I have not done any real research on about the solar sails in space for things.
The solar panel car was just an off thought reading Xero's post. To say yes it is possible some time ago thus nowadays it could be more possible .

[Ulfrinn]

Escrito originalmente por Hobbit XIII:

Escrito originalmente por Ulfrinn:

Solar panels aren't the only way to turn sunlight into electricity though.

I have a theory I have not done any real research on about the solar sails in space for things.
The solar panel car was just an off thought reading Xero's post. To say yes it is possible some time ago thus nowadays it could be more possible .

Recently a car set a speed record with solar. It was unable to reach highway speeds, could only sustain max speed for a couple hours, and was built so lightweight it was barely more than an ebike with a roof. You're never going to collect and convert enough energy from the sun to move a car reliably enough for it to be more than just a science project.

Solar sails in space utilize the solar winds, which is the matter being ejected by the sun towards the outer solar system.

[Mr. Tex]

The obesssion over EVs is crazy, making an EV is just as bad if not worse for the environment and people as making regular cars.

It's also impossible for all regular car owners to switch to electric: we do not have enough electricity, infrastrcture, minerals, and metals to even come close to it.It's impossible. A delusion.

EVs are a dead-end and will not solve anything, just shift the pollution around, from one source or place to another. It's not a good alternative at all.

The whole EV push is a marketing scam by car manufacturers and corrupt politicians.

It's far better to invest in alternative fuel research, something that works on regular cars but is better for the environment, or something you can add to a regular car, like a special filter. That is far more realistic.

[HypersleepyNaputunia]

you can only realistically havest maybe 300 to 400 watts per hour on a car roof sorry and thats only 8n full sun

[xDDD]

Escrito originalmente por Mr. Tex:

The obesssion over EVs is crazy, making an EV is just as bad if not worse for the environment and people as making regular cars.

It's also impossible for all regular car owners to switch to electric: we do not have enough electricity, infrastrcture, minerals, and metals to even come close to it.It's impossible. A delusion.

EVs are a dead-end and will not solve anything, just shift the pollution around, from one source or place to another. It's not a good alternative at all.

The whole EV push is a marketing scam by car manufacturers and corrupt politicians.

It's far better to invest in alternative fuel research, something that works on regular cars but is better for the environment, or something you can add to a regular car, like a special filter. That is far more realistic.

As everything both sides are absurdly dogmatic and ridiculous.

We have people who are OBSESSED with EVs and think they should be the be-all end-all solution, think everything should be an EV. They are perfect and so healthy for the environment. These people are ignorant fools.

Then on the other side we have people who HATE EVs and everything about them. They think that EVs are useless for everything and shouldn't be used, often citing some BS about how X is bad or Y is useless. These people are also ignorant fools.


In reality EVs can work fine in certain applications. They will never completely replace gas/diesel of course, but there are places where EVs absolutely can shine as a great option. For example, shorter-range deliveries and taxis/ubers are a great application for EVs. Everyone always trashes that EV semi truck with the whole "hurrdurr muh charging time hurrdurr it cant cross the country" but that isn't the POINT of what it is for and was never advertised as such.


Personally I don't like EVs but I can see the potential for them and don't really hate them either.

[HypersleepyNaputunia]

batteryless semis are totally doable too. all those pwerlines next to highways can get repositioned into a underroad power rail that semis or eve cars could connect to and pay by tbe mile. then disconnect and use a battery when leaving the road

electric motors are extremely efficient, its tthe batteries that are always the problem with weight and efficiency

[Grimsdottir]

Escrito originalmente por Ulfrinn:

Escrito originalmente por Grimsdottir:

The primary issue with people struggling to adopt EVs is I think has to do with our infrastructure only is set to support gas vehicles. Were we to mandate the mass wide adoption of charging stations and electrical grid updates. Then I imagine adopting EVs would be more viable but as it currently stands, we're working backwards in my eyes and putting the cart before the horse. We need to not only be working to make EVs more cost efficient, we need to also be putting in just as much into city support for such a planned 'flip' which I don't hear many people talk about.

Maybe we don't mandate anything. If the technology is unable to grow based on it's own merit, should we use it at all? If it's so good, shouldn't the products make people want them based on their performance? And if they're good enough that people want them, then people would build up the infrastructure to support them. Mandating it is exactly what's causing the problems. It's attempting to force people to use something that isn't the best solution for them because someone in some far away office determined it was for their own good. That's terrible governance.

WE don't need to work to make EVs more cost efficient. The people with a financial interest in selling them to people need to do that. That's their job, not the citizens, not the governments. That's how capitalism works. Mandates and government doing the work for them is an affront to that concept, and where economies go to die.

I think it depends on who is mandating the change.
Lets take chattanooga TN. They have the fastest internet in the country and currently are a turning into a business hub. They fought an uphill battle a few years back.

The city had to fight the three internet companies there and even had to go to court simply over 'upgrading' their ♥♥♥♥. Their own city, and the companies fought them over fixing their own city. Its a wild case that I think, speaks to what could be one facet of the issue.
If the internet companies threw a massive fit over a city wanting to fix itself because they knew it would benefit everyone. Imagine a larger org like like big ... 'Gas?', all it takes is one greedy person to but a ton of red tape infront of a good idea. One company, or several.

So whilst I agree on your point of letting the market decide, which it is, people Are trying to buy EVs. There was a great article I read a year ago about an EV trip to the one of the poles with nothing but EVs and it was a good trip, EVs arn't all crap and we ought not do away entirely with Gas but somehow adopt or encourage hybrids as well as solve the battery issue that many EVs will face.

[Ulfrinn]

Escrito originalmente por Grimsdottir:

Escrito originalmente por Ulfrinn:

Maybe we don't mandate anything. If the technology is unable to grow based on it's own merit, should we use it at all? If it's so good, shouldn't the products make people want them based on their performance? And if they're good enough that people want them, then people would build up the infrastructure to support them. Mandating it is exactly what's causing the problems. It's attempting to force people to use something that isn't the best solution for them because someone in some far away office determined it was for their own good. That's terrible governance.

WE don't need to work to make EVs more cost efficient. The people with a financial interest in selling them to people need to do that. That's their job, not the citizens, not the governments. That's how capitalism works. Mandates and government doing the work for them is an affront to that concept, and where economies go to die.

I think it depends on who is mandating the change.
Lets take chattanooga TN. They have the fastest internet in the country and currently are a turning into a business hub. They fought an uphill battle a few years back.

The city had to fight the three internet companies there and even had to go to court simply over 'upgrading' their ♥♥♥♥. Their own city, and the companies fought them over fixing their own city. Its a wild case that I think, speaks to what could be one facet of the issue.
If the internet companies threw a massive fit over a city wanting to fix itself because they knew it would benefit everyone. Imagine a larger org like like big ... 'Gas?', all it takes is one greedy person to but a ton of red tape infront of a good idea. One company, or several.

So whilst I agree on your point of letting the market decide, which it is, people Are trying to buy EVs. There was a great article I read a year ago about an EV trip to the one of the poles with nothing but EVs and it was a good trip, EVs arn't all crap and we ought not do away entirely with Gas but somehow adopt or encourage hybrids as well as solve the battery issue that many EVs will face.

That's why I've been saying PEVs need to get expanded attention. So cars can remain useful at what they're actually good at, and people just needing something to commute don't have to spend tens of thousands of dollars just to move an individual from their home to work. If the law where I am at passes, then they'll be legal on all roads where cars can go, if they're capable of safely sustaining a high enough speed limit to not choke up the flow of traffic. That's what we need to see more of.

[Dom]

Escrito originalmente por :D:

In reality EVs can work fine in certain applications. They will never completely replace gas/diesel of course, but there are places where EVs absolutely can shine as a great option. For example, shorter-range deliveries and taxis/ubers are a great application for EVs. Everyone always trashes that EV semi truck with the whole "hurrdurr muh charging time hurrdurr it cant cross the country" but that isn't the POINT of what it is for and was never advertised as such.


Personally I don't like EVs but I can see the potential for them and don't really hate them either.

I don't know where the notion comes from that EVs are only good for shorter-range travel. This was certainly the case some years ago but currently the best-case capacity is at 500 miles and it's growing. There is variance between car models but we're still talking about hundreds of miles in one session. I dare to say that most people are not really willing to drive more than 500 miles a day, or don't have to.

And for people who (for whatever reason) travel 1000 miles without taking a pause, I'd likely recommend perhaps boarding a plane instead. It's not fun sitting in a car and driving 10+ hours without a break (break which would allow EV to charge).

[Shadow]

Biggest issue with Ev is that they are overpriced and also replacing the battery costs thousands of dollars.

Nah I'll stick to gas.

[Dom]

Escrito originalmente por Shadow:

Biggest issue with Ev is that they are overpriced and also replacing the battery costs thousands of dollars.

Nah I'll stick to gas.

The lifespan of EV battery is between 15-20 years if the conditions are optimal.

I wonder who shares the misinformation that they need to be constantly changed..

[Grimsdottir]

Escrito originalmente por Dom:

Escrito originalmente por Shadow:

Biggest issue with Ev is that they are overpriced and also replacing the battery costs thousands of dollars.

Nah I'll stick to gas.

The lifespan of EV battery is between 15-20 years if the conditions are optimal.

I wonder who shares the misinformation that they need to be constantly changed..

This is likely due to the notion of cheap car batteries often dying. People think 'what is the closest thing I use that is to that' to determine the viability without taking into account that not all companies follow 'planned obsolescence'. Which funnily enough was born out of the car industry between Ford and Buick or Crystler I think. Ford refused to change the design of the model T for decades, thus leading to plummeting profits, His sons begged him to do something but Ford was like 'it works. why change it' and they created the used car market over night. The other companies saw their sales and took note to slowly change the look of the cars over time to keep people buying.

So you can thank the car market for what it is today in a funny manner.

[Dom]

Escrito originalmente por Grimsdottir:

Escrito originalmente por Dom:

The lifespan of EV battery is between 15-20 years if the conditions are optimal.

I wonder who shares the misinformation that they need to be constantly changed..

This is likely due to the notion of cheap car batteries often dying. People think 'what is the closest thing I use that is to that' to determine the viability without taking into account that not all companies follow 'planned obsolescence'. Which funnily enough was born out of the car industry between Ford and Buick or Crystler I think. Ford refused to change the design of the model T for decades, thus leading to plummeting profits, His sons begged him to do something but Ford was like 'it works. why change it' and they created the used car market over night. The other companies saw their sales and took note to slowly change the look of the cars over time to keep people buying.

So you can thank the car market for what it is today in a funny manner.

Yeah. And it's certainly true that cheaper EV battery may not reach that 15 year lifespan but the bottom line in any case is, we're talking about a very long lifespan before the change becomes relevant. Car parts of all types break and become old overtime, that's just the reality and maintenace is necessary. If you put just little bit of money into some battery fund every month, you can easily afford to change the battery over time.

People also need to remember that the cheaper the EV is (and thus the battery), the less expensive it is to change it. People take the most expensive EV, & how much its car battery change costs, and apply it to every single EV to say that they are not affordable. This is a misleading take.

A lot of people just want to hate and diss EVs and I dare to say many who do have never had any true experience with them. Which I don't say they need to have even - all they should do is little bit of research on the basic facts.

[Devsman]

Escrito originalmente por Grimsdottir:

Escrito originalmente por Dom:

The lifespan of EV battery is between 15-20 years if the conditions are optimal.

I wonder who shares the misinformation that they need to be constantly changed..

This is likely due to the notion of cheap car batteries often dying. People think 'what is the closest thing I use that is to that' to determine the viability without taking into account that not all companies follow 'planned obsolescence'. Which funnily enough was born out of the car industry between Ford and Buick or Crystler I think. Ford refused to change the design of the model T for decades, thus leading to plummeting profits, His sons begged him to do something but Ford was like 'it works. why change it' and they created the used car market over night. The other companies saw their sales and took note to slowly change the look of the cars over time to keep people buying.

So you can thank the car market for what it is today in a funny manner.

It's not like there's no precedent for this.

Gas cars and printers are two great examples of things that used to work and have gotten crappier and crappier over time.

They promise you an EV battery lasts 20 years.

In 2030 it'll be 20 months.