How come everyone is quick to blame the right and ignore their own party that does the same stupid crap worse?

[Heatblizzard]

Then make up all sorts of BS how it's all 'their fault' when in reality both sides play a role in it (though even then one side is still worse) but you have to do some deep homework on the other side to find out who has a fighting chance but often those people get kicked off the ballot box when they actually get somewhere and the bozo is always selected.

[Xero_Daxter]

I can’t blame a party if I am not with a party.

[Titus]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Chunk Norris ☯:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Titus:

And you assume this correlation occurs because you are looking at the issue in a vacuum. There are many reasons why a trans person would be more likely to feel suicidal ideation beyond the fact that they are transgender:
1. Access to gender-affirming care might reduce it
2. Community connectedness might reduce it
Source: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/transpop-suicide-press-release/

The fact that they are transgender, is not the direct cause for their suicidal ideation. And it can be prevented with better care and a welcoming community.

None of that is correct, The easiest ways to see how this is wrong is by looking at similar but different groups. Like the drag-queen or crossdresser segments of society who outwardly have the same appearance of a trans-person but experience none of the high suicide ratings accompanied by that specific identity and ideology or at least not the significantly higher suicide ratings.

I think it's important to note that many European countries who previously encouraged this practice and now switching gears in it. Crunchy likes to talk about the science behind it, but did you know his country of the UK is one of those countries? They recently passed a law banning all puberty blockers for minors and closed down their own child sex change clinic.

We should all strive to treat people nice in society but there are lots of groups which get a ton of harassment and crap and they don't have high sucide numbers...look at Trump Supporters and how they're treated?

You do a lot of "looking" which is subjective. Your comparison of crossdressers and trans people is purely speculative.

The difference between LGBTQ+ harassment and Trump supporter harassment, is that one is targeting a gender identity/sexual orientation, the other is targeting a political ideology. The decision of transitioning is not as simple as the decision of whether or not you support Trump. And people who are gay don't even get to choose whether or not they are gay. It is ridiculous to compare the harassment of these two groups in an attempt to defend Trump supporters.

[Titus]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Chunk Norris ☯:

DeSantis didn't ban those books listed but schools do ban those types of book...schools you know those institutions that are dominated by left-wing/Democrat teachers.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/roughly-300-books-were-removed-from-libraries-in-florida-last-school-year-heres-the-full-list/3113184/

Here's a website that talks about banned books, but in it you can lookup individual books banned and who banned them. For instances.

Flowers for Algernon wasn't banned by DeSantis. But if you look it up on the website a single school district of "Clay Country" banned it.

Clay County is majority Republican. All of these book bannings that you say are from the left, are actually done by Republicans.

[Titus]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Chunk Norris ☯:

For instance Loudon County went almost 70% to Trump in 2020. And yet Loudon county school board still imposed transgender bathroom policies onto their kids, which led up to the rape of one of the students...with Joe Biden's DOJ calling the parents terrorists and the school board having the upset father arrested and protecting the rapist who was a gender-non-binary biological male who wore dresses and would sometimes claim to be trans.

I think you are unintentionally misunderstanding the story. Or grossly misunderstanding the facts. https://apnews.com/article/loudoun-virginia-lawsuit-transgender-bathroom-sexual-assault-a26168568cc20c2aa6cec9bef50e7c3f

Oprindeligt skrevet af AP NEWS:

A law firm’s investigation, requested by the school board, found “no evidence that the perpetrator identified as a female or that he wore a skirt or kilt in an effort to gain access to the girls’ bathrooms.”

A policy that expanded access for transgender students to school facilities was not in place at the time of the assault.

The attacker and his victim had agreed to meet in a Stone Bridge High School bathroom before the May assault occurred, according to an investigation conducted by a Loudoun County grand jury.

The attack on another female student that October occurred in an empty classroom at Broad Run High School, according to the grand jury report.

The reports from the grand jury and the law firm had both criticized the school system’s handling of the assaults.

For example, the law firm’s report from December 2021 noted that the school system did not appear to have made “any outreach to victim 1 or her family to check on her.”

[Titus]

Oprindeligt skrevet af videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Titus:

I found two stories of school districts banning Huck Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird, one was a school district from Accomack County, Virgina, the other was a school district from Biloxi in Harrison County, Mississippi. Both are majority Republican counties.

Several states have it banned across multiple school distracts, large amounts of them left. I KNOW it's banned quite often in California for example. Hm, weird, maybe something changed. Also keep in mind officially banned and blacklisted are(sadly) two different things

This was from the first search: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/09/25/california-bans-book-bans-and-textbook-censorship-in-schools/

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Titus:

Oprindeligt skrevet af videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:

By the by, "affirming care" is not a treatment to any form fo dysphoria and should be kept limited to those who are suicidal form clinic or otherwise non-communicative for a short time. The leading cause for suicide is the ongoing panic attacks and depression from extreme dysphoria episodes. Better care means providing long-term therapy to handle those episodes and eventually overcome them in the case of traumatic instances. Clinic you have to just live with it but those are so rare it's stupid and usually either from brain damage or end of life.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9553112/#APP0004title
This is a good starting point for whether an individual should receive gender affirming care based on criteria guidance. Do you agree with the criteria guidance?

Thanks for the link, and thank you for the location stamp because this is an extremely long document. Let's go top to bottom. LEt's also keep in mind were refering to long-term medical treatment which require ongoing and lifelong medical intervention upon application of these treatments. This should only be used as a last ditch resort to clinical issues just on that alone.

The document define transexual as follows:
------
"trans are umbrella terms used to describe people whose gender identities and/or gender
expressions are not what is typically expected for the sex to which they were assigned at
birth."

They also define the words used thereof "gender expression," and "Gender Identity," as follows and this I do have severe issues in.

"... refers to how a person enacts or expresses their gender in everyday life and within the
context of their culture and society. Expression of gender through physical appearance may
include dress, hairstyle, accessories, cosmetics..."

"refers to a person’s deeply felt, internal, intrinsic sense of their own gender."
---------
I do think that's nonsense. By the logic presented here someone who is a tomboy or effemininte has "Gender incongruence that is marked and sustained;" for simply having different interest group or dressing a bit androgynous. I mean ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ this is 1 to 1 "tomyboys are trans" without exception so hell now I'm not going to agree to it. If a man wants to wear frilly clothes because he likes the oranementation, uncommon among boys and men, then that isn't a basis he has a mental illness. Hell let's take it further an examine that The requirements to surgery don't even check if the hormone replacement therapy is even working nor requires an initial consult from several months of therapy. Hell it doesn't even ask to arrest the risk the person is currently in, they just say if the person has "Gender incongruence," that alone is basis for these lifelong treatments on the spot. Like hell I agree with that, I hope to god you don't either!

And that's the adult one. This one goes into applying it to children, because these expression are even in place. you have to go through puberty for the mental image to even have a dymorphic consideration, meaning being able to tell male from female at an emotional level, let alone sufficiently to receive life-long hormone and surgical treatments! And many of these surgeries include outright plastic surgery which is not separated for children who are still developing these details!

No, absolutely not. A person who is suffering through the condition in which the brain, either by trauamatic block or by clinical(meaning chemical) failure from damage/development, is not able to recognize their own bodies as their own should receive long-term therapy to manage the condition and being treatment for the traumatic trigger as it is applicable. If the situation is so severe the patient is already receiving constant medical care to prevent self-harm than maybe you discuss Hormone Replacement therapy, but thats well after therapy has proven refractory, and only in sure-fire clinic cases. You don't solve a temporary trauma problem by permanent body alteration and you don't solve mental health issues that dont require medical intervention to prevent self-harm by applying a treatment which adds in lifelong medical intervention. That be a breach of the basic Hippocratic oath as you're causing harm that wasn't there before!

So yeah, I think we can cement this is wrong. I've met people with severely poor self image, who tell themselves their androgynous body isnt what a man should look like and hate themselves for it, for someone who hated that he didn't have the general attitude of most men. These issues of low self confidence are not a mental illness and should not be the basis for major medical treatment, let alone life-altering surgery. And that's not even getting into perfectly healthy tomyboys or the effeminate.

[Titus]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Chunk Norris ☯:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Titus:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9553112/#APP0004title
This is a good starting point for whether an individual should receive gender affirming care based on criteria guidance. Do you agree with the criteria guidance?

Why do it at all? The newest gender ideology teaches us that one simply has to identify as a woman or a man to become said thing...seems more then a bit trans-phobic to push the idea that to be truly a man or a woman these trans-folk have to have the outward appearance of traditional male/female.

Joe Rogan might of said it better.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Tdtqs5OTncY

Seems like according to gender ideology instead of transitioning what should happens is these folks should sit down and have a conversation about internalized trans-phobia.

All you do is say things without sitting down and actually talk about what policies you want. So let's sit down, and actually talk about what you want for transgender people. Do you agree with these criteria?

Oprindeligt skrevet af Standards of Care Volume 8:

SUMMARY CRITERIA FOR ADOLESCENTS
Related to the assessment process
1. A comprehensive biopsychosocial assessment including relevant mental health and medical professionals;
2. Involvement of parent(s)/guardian(s) in the assessment process, unless their involvement is determined to be harmful to the adolescent or not feasible;
3. If written documentation or a letter is required to recommend gender-affirming medical and surgical treatment (GAMST), only one letter of assessment from a member of the multidisciplinary team is needed. This letter needs to reflect the assessment and opinion from the team that involves both medical and mental health professionals (MHPs).

Puberty blocking agents
a. Gender diversity/incongruence is marked and sustained over time;
b. Meets the diagnostic criteria of gender incongruence in situations where a diagnosis is necessary to access health care;
c. Demonstrates the emotional and cognitive maturity required to provide informed consent/assent for the treatment;
d. Mental health concerns (if any) that may interfere with diagnostic clarity, capacity to consent, and gender-affirming medical treatments have been addressed; sufficiently so that gender-affirming medical treatment can be provided optimally.
e. Informed of the reproductive effects, including the potential loss of fertility and the available options to preserve fertility;
f. Reached Tanner stage 2.

Hormonal treatments
a. Gender diversity/incongruence is marked and sustained over time;
b. Meets the diagnostic criteria of gender incongruence in situations where a diagnosis is necessary to access health care;
c. Demonstrates the emotional and cognitive maturity required to provide informed consent/assent for the treatment;
d. Mental health concerns (if any) that may interfere with diagnostic clarity, capacity to consent, and gender-affirming medical treatments have been addressed; sufficiently so that gender-affirming medical treatment can be provided optimally.
e. Informed of the reproductive effects, including the potential loss of fertility and the available options to preserve fertility;
f. Reached Tanner stage 2.

Surgery
a. Gender diversity/incongruence is marked and ­sustained over time;
b. Meets the diagnostic criteria of gender incongruence in situations where a diagnosis is necessary to access health care;
c. Demonstrates the emotional and cognitive maturity required to provide informed consent/assent for the treatment;
d. Mental health concerns (if any) that may interfere with diagnostic clarity, capacity to consent, and gender-affirming medical treatments have been addressed; sufficiently so that gender-affirming medical treatment can be provided optimally.
e. Informed of the reproductive effects, including the potential loss of fertility and the available options to preserve fertility;
f. At least 12 months of gender-affirming hormone therapy or longer, if required, to achieve the desired surgical result for gender-affirming procedures, including breast augmentation, orchiectomy, vaginoplasty, hysterectomy, phalloplasty, metoidioplasty, and facial surgery as part of gender-affirming treatment unless hormone therapy is either not desired or is medically contraindicated.

Which parts of the criteria for gender affirming care do you agree and/or disagree with?

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Titus:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Chunk Norris ☯:

DeSantis didn't ban those books listed but schools do ban those types of book...schools you know those institutions that are dominated by left-wing/Democrat teachers.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/roughly-300-books-were-removed-from-libraries-in-florida-last-school-year-heres-the-full-list/3113184/

Here's a website that talks about banned books, but in it you can lookup individual books banned and who banned them. For instances.

Flowers for Algernon wasn't banned by DeSantis. But if you look it up on the website a single school district of "Clay Country" banned it.

Clay County is majority Republican. All of these book bannings that you say are from the left, are actually done by Republicans.

To be fair the examples he brought up was from Dom, not himself. He only said the porn books talking about gay sex and "alternate romances," which were present in elementary schools at the time by the way, were barred from those libraries. Dom was the one who expanded it and brought up Desantis.

[Chunk Norris ☯]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Titus:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Chunk Norris ☯:

None of that is correct, The easiest ways to see how this is wrong is by looking at similar but different groups. Like the drag-queen or crossdresser segments of society who outwardly have the same appearance of a trans-person but experience none of the high suicide ratings accompanied by that specific identity and ideology or at least not the significantly higher suicide ratings.

I think it's important to note that many European countries who previously encouraged this practice and now switching gears in it. Crunchy likes to talk about the science behind it, but did you know his country of the UK is one of those countries? They recently passed a law banning all puberty blockers for minors and closed down their own child sex change clinic.

We should all strive to treat people nice in society but there are lots of groups which get a ton of harassment and crap and they don't have high sucide numbers...look at Trump Supporters and how they're treated?

You do a lot of "looking" which is subjective. Your comparison of crossdressers and trans people is purely speculative.

The difference between LGBTQ+ harassment and Trump supporter harassment, is that one is targeting a gender identity/sexual orientation, the other is targeting a political ideology. The decision of transitioning is not as simple as the decision of whether or not you support Trump. And people who are gay don't even get to choose whether or not they are gay. It is ridiculous to compare the harassment of these two groups in an attempt to defend Trump supporters.

No they've done studies on it. And it's pretty clear to see without needing some scientists doing an overly complicated study.

There's groups in America which receive more harassment then the trans-community and we don't see the massive 45% attempted suicide rating.

But that's the thing...the folks would rather have an ideology that is inconsistent and those inconsistencies are likely what's causing the suicide rating and then get to blame it all on people who dont believe in your ideology.

And as for harassment and online bullying...the vast majority of it with the trans-community seems like it's simply people disagreeing with their beliefs. There's a trans-person who visits the forums here that claims disagreeing with them is genocide. As someone whose frequently been bullied at times in my life, I can assure you disagreeing with someone isn't bullying them.

[Chunk Norris ☯]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Titus:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Chunk Norris ☯:

DeSantis didn't ban those books listed but schools do ban those types of book...schools you know those institutions that are dominated by left-wing/Democrat teachers.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/roughly-300-books-were-removed-from-libraries-in-florida-last-school-year-heres-the-full-list/3113184/

Here's a website that talks about banned books, but in it you can lookup individual books banned and who banned them. For instances.

Flowers for Algernon wasn't banned by DeSantis. But if you look it up on the website a single school district of "Clay Country" banned it.

Clay County is majority Republican. All of these book bannings that you say are from the left, are actually done by Republicans.

The area I grew up was majority Republican but teachers/the education institute and school boards tend to be dominated by left-wingers. Loudon County the famous county that had the DOJ wanting to arrested concerned parents is mostly Republican with a left-wing school board.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Just an addition, teaching staff from every grade level, including university, is hard left-wing as a super-majority. That's been recorded and studies now it's not up for debate it's provable fact by party allignment(which is public record) and public statement.

[Titus]

Oprindeligt skrevet af videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:

I do think that's nonsense. By the logic presented here someone who is a tomboy or effemininte has "Gender incongruence that is marked and sustained;" for simply having different interest group or dressing a bit androgynous. I mean ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ this is 1 to 1 "tomyboys are trans" without exception so hell now I'm not going to agree to it. If a man wants to wear frilly clothes because he likes the oranementation, uncommon among boys and men, then that isn't a basis he has a mental illness. Hell let's take it further an examine that The requirements to surgery don't even check if the hormone replacement therapy is even working nor requires an initial consult from several months of therapy. Hell it doesn't even ask to arrest the risk the person is currently in, they just say if the person has "Gender incongruence," that alone is basis for these lifelong treatments on the spot. Like hell I agree with that, I hope to god you don't either!

And that's the adult one. This one goes into applying it to children, because these expression are even in place. you have to go through puberty for the mental image to even have a dymorphic consideration, meaning being able to tell male from female at an emotional level, let alone sufficiently to receive life-long hormone and surgical treatments! And many of these surgeries include outright plastic surgery which is not separated for children who are still developing these details!

They also defined gender incongruence:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Standards of Care Volume 8:

GENDER INCONGRUENCE is a diagnostic term used in the ICD-11 that describes a person’s marked and persistent experience of an incompatibility between that person’s gender identity and the gender expected of them based on their birth-assigned sex.

This is the diagnostic requirement, the first bullet point (or I guess letter "a") required for all treatments options for all age groups.

Oprindeligt skrevet af videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:

No, absolutely not. A person who is suffering through the condition in which the brain, either by trauamatic block or by clinical(meaning chemical) failure from damage/development, is not able to recognize their own bodies as their own should receive long-term therapy to manage the condition and being treatment for the traumatic trigger as it is applicable. If the situation is so severe the patient is already receiving constant medical care to prevent self-harm than maybe you discuss Hormone Replacement therapy, but thats well after therapy has proven refractory, and only in sure-fire clinic cases. You don't solve a temporary trauma problem by permanent body alteration and you don't solve mental health issues that dont require medical intervention to prevent self-harm by applying a treatment which adds in lifelong medical intervention. That be a breach of the basic Hippocratic oath as you're causing harm that wasn't there before!

If it were as easy as fixing the chemicals in the brain, we would have no mental issues. But medicine has not advanced that far. Also, trans is not a temporary trauma problem, at least that is not the diagnostic required for the treatments (as I mentioned above).

It is not only about preventing self harm, it is improving quality of life. Also, I am unsure what you mean by lifelong medical intervention, I need you to explain that more.

Oprindeligt skrevet af videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:

So yeah, I think we can cement this is wrong. I've met people with severely poor self image, who tell themselves their androgynous body isnt what a man should look like and hate themselves for it, for someone who hated that he didn't have the general attitude of most men. These issues of low self confidence are not a mental illness and should not be the basis for major medical treatment, let alone life-altering surgery. And that's not even getting into perfectly healthy tomyboys or the effeminate.

Your subjective experiences doesn't necessarily define the norm or range of experiences.

[Chunk Norris ☯]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Titus:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Chunk Norris ☯:

For instance Loudon County went almost 70% to Trump in 2020. And yet Loudon county school board still imposed transgender bathroom policies onto their kids, which led up to the rape of one of the students...with Joe Biden's DOJ calling the parents terrorists and the school board having the upset father arrested and protecting the rapist who was a gender-non-binary biological male who wore dresses and would sometimes claim to be trans.

I think you are unintentionally misunderstanding the story. Or grossly misunderstanding the facts. https://apnews.com/article/loudoun-virginia-lawsuit-transgender-bathroom-sexual-assault-a26168568cc20c2aa6cec9bef50e7c3f

Oprindeligt skrevet af AP NEWS:

A law firm’s investigation, requested by the school board, found “no evidence that the perpetrator identified as a female or that he wore a skirt or kilt in an effort to gain access to the girls’ bathrooms.”

A policy that expanded access for transgender students to school facilities was not in place at the time of the assault.

The attacker and his victim had agreed to meet in a Stone Bridge High School bathroom before the May assault occurred, according to an investigation conducted by a Loudoun County grand jury.

The attack on another female student that October occurred in an empty classroom at Broad Run High School, according to the grand jury report.

The reports from the grand jury and the law firm had both criticized the school system’s handling of the assaults.

For example, the law firm’s report from December 2021 noted that the school system did not appear to have made “any outreach to victim 1 or her family to check on her.”

Sorry AP news thinks that plagiarizing is a good thing and that those mean right-wingers should be ashamed of themselves for calling people out on it.

I don't accept them as a news source anymore for fact checking.

Besides it said some random firm investigated and can't even name the firm? And it was hired by the school board who protected the rapist and tried to have the father arrested?

Look the evidence says the Loudon county had a trans-woman or a gender non-binary person who wore a skirt but even if that's not the case, all we're seeing here is how the left can't actually follow their own belief system.

IF someone says they're trans, who are you to be the gate keeper for their identity? Isn't that how this works? Lia Thomas wanted to compete in a female sport, wasn't the left-wing stance that it's nobodies place to question her beliefs? Isn't that how this works?

So what we're seeing is a person who identities as non-binary or trans and some thing non-binary are trans, but either way it amounts to a person have an identity that is being denied to them simply because they did something bad.

And even if you didn't buy that argument...the law the non-binary/trans person used to get into the female bathroom doesn't see the distinction. To the law one just has to identify as trans.

[Not Big Surprise]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Chunk Norris ☯:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Not Big Surprise:

again
was the book usually in the kids' sections of libraries?
was the book made for young children?

Well that's the whole problem isn't it? The left reading inappropriate age books to small children in schools, and then claiming that the right is banning books when we call people out on it.

Should just have arrested these people for child endangerment, distributing porn to a minor is a felony.

even the literal author says the book is not meant for young children

...and you still haven't shown me that the book is actually in kids' sections on libraries
nor have i seen that that's the case despite trying to see for myself
why is that, i wonder?

Oprindeligt skrevet af Chunk Norris ☯:

Something that is kind of fun.

https://babylonbee.com/news/california-bill-prohibits-stores-from-selling-toys-that-dont-actively-confuse-childrens-sexuality

The first link is a satire publication from 2020.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-fine-stores-dont-have-gender-neutral-kids-toy-section-2024

The second link is a real story about California doing what was satire to Babylon Bee a few years ago.

ok and

[Groogo]

Have you noticed how the Left is more upset that Trump was not on Epstein's Pedo island then they are at those who were on the island harming children.