Is it rude to move to a country and never learn the language?

[MoonC A T]

For example, let's say I moved to Germany or Japan, where the primary language is the respective country name. Is it rude if I never learn to speak German or Japanese? How long is too long to be in a country and not learn the language?

[Kobs]

Is it rude to move to a country and never learn the language?

Very

[Arnie Rimsy BSc.SSc.]

It depends what you are doing. It's obviously beneficial to learn that language, communicate respectfully etc. It's not really rude, though. Everyone has a different perception of what's rude, but realistically, learning languages take depth and time. If you moved there, you'd learn whether you liked it or not. It happens over time. I just realised how pointless this conversation is.

[Tonepoet]

Yeah, it is somewhat rude. You might not even want to communicate with anybody there, but if you are going to be living somewhere, then the surrounding people might have a valid need to communicate with you and you won't know who, why or when until the need actually arises. You can't very well expect everybody living somewhere to take the effort learn the language you know, since a hundred people learning a new language is a hundred times more effort spent than you as an individual taking the time to learn theris, so you should learn the de facto language major of the region. Ideally you would learn at least the fundamental basics of a language before you even relocate if possible.

If you can't even communicate with other people, many of the other social expectations of politeness can not even be met. You are going to be reaching over the table because you can't even ask somebody to pass the salt. If you need to pass by or accidentally bump into somebody by accident, you can not even say excuse me. You can't say thank you in return to a gesture of kindness either. These are also among the least concerning communications a person may have to make, although I exemplify them because they are also among the more common rules of politeness that involve the use of communication. If it is rude not to say please, excuse me or thank you to somebody, then it stands to reason that not even knowing how to say these things in the first place is even ruder, and not at least trying to make the effort to learn how shows a lack of consideration for others.

Now with that having been said, it is the sort of conduct that can be forgiven. Learning even just the basics of a new language is not anywhere near as easy as learning your primary language, and some people move to a new country out of necessity rather than by choice. However, a person should at least make a cursory effort to learn the basics of the local language if they are going to be living there for any prolonged period of time.

You might alternatively be able to get by with a translator, if you have the means, but it is a rather clunky and imperfect solution, especially if your translator can not be by your side at all times.

[EASY PETE]

Everyone in Germany speaks english anyway. Japan not so much

[Birds]

Publicado originalmente por EASY PETE:

Everyone in Germany speaks english anyway. Japan not so much

It's annoying that someone pretending to be Japanese is the one who brought it up (not you,) but Japan's standardized view about language is extremely hostile to foreign influences. And they've been alone in that regard for a very long time, backed up pretty much solely by racist and nationalist elements in other countries.

Maybe it's unfair that foreign countries xenophobia makes Japan look xenophobic for its attitudes on language. Maybe those attitudes were developed specifically to make the country hostile to foreigners, such as Okinawans and Ainu.

Sorry, I mean foreigners like the Han/Jomon and their writing system.

It's just a position that doesn't make much more sense than demanding that someone speak English, a language that barely makes any sense in the first place.

[Mensis]

Publicado originalmente por kingjames488:

I've always been annoyed at people speaking another language in public where that language isn't understood (which is pretty much anything but english here).

I wouldn't expect anyone else to put up with me in their country blabbering on in english...

speak the language if you're in the country.

I see no problem if it's just two or more people talking amongst themselves who all understand the language. It's different when you're approaching a stranger on the street and expecting them to speak your language which is not that of the country you're in, but people who speak that language talking to each other isn't really hurting anything.

It just sounds more like you're annoyed you're excluded from something lol

[Mensis]

Publicado originalmente por kingjames488:

Publicado originalmente por Mensis:

I see no problem if it's just two or more people talking amongst themselves who all understand the language. It's different when you're approaching a stranger on the street and expecting them to speak your language which is not that of the country you're in, but people who speak that language talking to each other isn't really hurting anything.

It just sounds more like you're annoyed you're excluded from something lol

you don't know if they're talking **** about you...

it's just rude to speak another language where it's not commonly understood IMO.

like hey, we could just speak pig latin... but why do that?

Who cares? People probably talk ♥♥♥♥ about you when they get home, or when they get back in their cars, or wherever else you can't hear them. I see no difference to that.

[Birds]

Publicado originalmente por Mensis:

Publicado originalmente por kingjames488:

you don't know if they're talking **** about you...

it's just rude to speak another language where it's not commonly understood IMO.

like hey, we could just speak pig latin... but why do that?

Who cares? People probably talk ♥♥♥♥ about you when they get home, or when they get back in their cars, or wherever else you can't hear them. I see no difference to that.

It's different when you know that they are, and can understand it.

In that situation it may be cowardly for them to use another language, but it is polite.

[Incarnate]

Yes. It's incredibly rude.

I don't even like tourists who don't speak the language.

[nullpo]

Not rude, but if you're trying to be nomad and live in 3rd world country with first world wage, you'll get exploited if you can't speak native. Like a lot. People will double to triple charge you because you don't know any better.

Oh and you have harder life in general. If you move though took like a year if you socialize a lot to be fluent for day2day.

[Birds]

Publicado originalmente por kingjames488:

Publicado originalmente por Birds:

It's different when you know that they are, and can understand it.

In that situation it may be cowardly for them to use another language, but it is polite.

how it is polite to be rude when no one else can understand you?

it's still rude.

It's the same idea as waiting until someone isn't around to discuss them. Let's face facts: not everything is likeable about a person. This is a given. It's only polite not to remind someone about their intrinsic flaws to their face all the time.

Of course if you're only talking about them behind their back to denigrate them while they can't defend themselves then that is rude.

The first is polite, if a bit cowardly. Especially if you know they don't understand and also don't have an eidetic memory and thus will become capable of understanding later.

The second is simply impolite, and also cowardly.

edit: tho this does back up my point that these people think it's on and totally do talk **** about you in front of you in an language you can't understand...

it's like how people pretend they don't speak english so they don't have to be bothered when they totally do speak english...

Well I don't think it's a good thing to do that.

But sometimes people only talk to you to start a fight, and it's better for everyone involved if that doesn't happen.

For many autists pretending not to understand is the only way out of such situations, as their words are unlikely to be wielded well enough to defuse the situation. And if someone gets physical then that's not exactly a situation the defender's nonverbal behavior could have prevented or encouraged, is it?

[steven1mac]

You should try to learn the language, preferable before you move to that country. Hopefully you'd get basic proficiency with in a year or two. I would not expect a tourist to learn the language, although they should learn a few key words to make their life easier.

[GloriousZote]

Publicado originalmente por MoonC A T:

For example, let's say I moved to Germany or Japan, where the primary language is the respective country name. Is it rude if I never learn to speak German or Japanese? How long is too long to be in a country and not learn the language?

It is very rude, and while I don't know how Germany reacts to it, you'd certainly find yourself rather unwelcome in Japan, the culture there is a lot more shielded from outside influence, you want to live there, you better adapt to their culture, including language.

[Birds]

Publicado originalmente por kingjames488:

don't tell the dutch prime minister...

not everyone agrees with your social ideas, and some don't blame themselves for every conceivable thing unless you point out an issue.

I shouldn't have to police other people's mistreatment of me.

They should simply treat me better, rather than looking for ways to mistreat me that I haven't explicitly forbidden yet.

[Mensis]

Publicado originalmente por GloriousZote:

Publicado originalmente por MoonC A T:

For example, let's say I moved to Germany or Japan, where the primary language is the respective country name. Is it rude if I never learn to speak German or Japanese? How long is too long to be in a country and not learn the language?

It is very rude, and while I don't know how Germany reacts to it, you'd certainly find yourself rather unwelcome in Japan, the culture there is a lot more shielded from outside influence, you want to live there, you better adapt to their culture, including language.

And they will still never consider you Japanese lol