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Bobbyk 2023 年 9 月 29 日 下午 11:26
Was the atomic bombing of Japan justified?
Yes it totally ended the WW2, but was it worth it? Yes it cost a lot of lives of innocent people. Japan wouldn't have given up without it. What do you think?
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正在显示第 121 - 133 条,共 133 条留言
Talby 2023 年 9 月 30 日 上午 9:17 
...War crimes should be universally condemned. Whoever ordered the atom bombs to be dropped should have been prosecuted for a massacre of civilians just as anyone who was prosecuted in the Nürnberg processes.
Wait, wasn't the bombing exactly that? Punishment for Pearl Harbor? Or was that "legal" in some way that I am not aware of?
The nameless Gamer 2023 年 9 月 30 日 上午 9:21 
引用自 Talby
...War crimes should be universally condemned. Whoever ordered the atom bombs to be dropped should have been prosecuted for a massacre of civilians just as anyone who was prosecuted in the Nürnberg processes.
Wait, wasn't the bombing exactly that? Punishment for Pearl Harbor? Or was that "legal" in some way that I am not aware of?

Pearl Harbour was a well defended military installation. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were full of civilians. The bomber which delivered the A-bomb was flying way above the maximum reach of Japanese Zeke/Cero fighters. Japanese torpedo planes were attacking battleships which returned fire. The B-29s which dropped the bombs on women and children were unopposed.
Edit: Pearl Harbour was also an attack which Japan was goaded into by an economic embargo imposed by the US, as you may have read in this very thread.
最后由 The nameless Gamer 编辑于; 2023 年 9 月 30 日 上午 9:22
Talby 2023 年 9 月 30 日 上午 9:23 
引用自 Talby
Wait, wasn't the bombing exactly that? Punishment for Pearl Harbor? Or was that "legal" in some way that I am not aware of?

Pearl Harbour was a well defended military installation. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were full of civilians. The bomber which delivered the A-bomb was flying way above the maximum reach of Japanese Zeke/Cero fighters. Japanese torpedo planes were attacking battleships which returned fire. The B-29s which dropped the bombs on women and children were unopposed.
So killing soldiers is "legal" is wartime. Got it.
The nameless Gamer 2023 年 9 月 30 日 上午 9:25 
引用自 Talby

Pearl Harbour was a well defended military installation. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were full of civilians. The bomber which delivered the A-bomb was flying way above the maximum reach of Japanese Zeke/Cero fighters. Japanese torpedo planes were attacking battleships which returned fire. The B-29s which dropped the bombs on women and children were unopposed.
So killing soldiers is "legal" is wartime. Got it.

That's why they are soldiers. They put on their uniforms and took up arms to take lives or lay them down. A perfectly needless profession for a species which has developed a working brain to find ways to solve problems beyond such savagery as is any act of violence. Humans should be ashamed of war.
最后由 The nameless Gamer 编辑于; 2023 年 9 月 30 日 上午 9:26
Chaosolous 2023 年 9 月 30 日 上午 9:36 
War is ugly no matter how it's won.

No media will ever do justice to it's abhorrence.

Humanity at it's cruelest is horror unfathomable.
Under there 2023 年 9 月 30 日 上午 9:53 
the question is was it real?
What history don't tell you is the usa attacked Japan first. That is why they bombed pearl harbor. Japan wouldn't attack a country that didn't attack them first.
最后由 ↑↑↓↓←→←→BASelect 编辑于; 2023 年 9 月 30 日 上午 10:13
skOsH♥ 2023 年 9 月 30 日 上午 10:36 
The war could have ended without a single atomic bomb dropping.

Or, you could nuke the water near Japan, or an island close to it, and say, "if you do not surrender, you will experience the temperature of 1,000 sun's in an instant. Thousands will die instantly"

Walk softly but carry a large stick.

No one warned Japan. Seemed like overkill revenge for Pearl Harbor.
❤ Sly Succubus ❤ 2023 年 9 月 30 日 上午 10:51 
The invasion of Japan was called off due to the generals of the allied nations deducing the number of soldiers to take just the beaches would of been 10x to 15x the lives lost at Normandie beaches, remember that Normandie was in France, not Germany, this was a direct invasion of another nations capital soil. Along with the Japanese order of No Surrender, Honor in death, the Generals went with the bombing

The thing is that both bombs dropped were different in their uses, little boy and fat man. Little boy was dropped on a parashoot and was so weak its blast radius was only five miles, it was a warning to tell the Japanese "You have 3 days to surrender" which was honored by parking a vast majority of the US naval forces on the coast line just out of artillery reach in plain sight of the Japanese military. After 3 days of no response and continued attempts to shoot the ships, the US dropped the other, far more destructive fatman bomb that wiped out a city.

You see, even WHEN WE USED THE FIRST NUKE, Japan didnt surrender, so the invasion would of been nothing when you take in that they were not scared that a new local 5 mile empty zone was created after a bomb fell, it took the second, much more powerful bomb to finally force some logic into their heads.

The US actually had plans to completely obliterate Japan if they didnt surrender, the fact is they didnt go forward with that plan as they put on display to the Soviets that, while their equally as destructive as them, they can be reasoned with and end a war before more blood is shed.
RRW359 2023 年 9 月 30 日 上午 11:10 
引用自
The war could have ended without a single atomic bomb dropping.

Or, you could nuke the water near Japan, or an island close to it, and say, "if you do not surrender, you will experience the temperature of 1,000 sun's in an instant. Thousands will die instantly"

Walk softly but carry a large stick.

No one warned Japan. Seemed like overkill revenge for Pearl Harbor.
We sent leaflets, had a test just before we dropped it, and they had their own bomb project so knew it was possible. Also they didn't surrender after the first bomb was dropped (IMHO the second bomb was a factor but probably wasn't as much as the successful Soviet invasion of Manchuria), and we destroyed several cities via firebombing.

Also even of no bombs were used in WW2 they would have been used at a later date and probably at a larger yield, and it would have been harder to justify them not becoming a precedent rather then something used to end a war that was worse then anything seen before with an unprecedented amount of international cooperation.
Raoul 2023 年 9 月 30 日 下午 12:04 
引用自 RRW359
引用自 Raoul
Whatever remnants of the Fascist ideology that remained in the Japanese Military could have easily been defeated in many different and efficient ways
Care to enlighten us on a way to defeat them that wouldn't have resulted in more Chinese civilian deaths, a blockade that would have starved Japanese civilians, or the carnage on both sides plus the civilian deaths that would have resulted from Ketsugo?
What are you talking about the Japanese military was already on its last legs and they knew that even considering surrendering at the time even before the atom bombs were dropped, the only thing that kept them going was the BS lies of the military officials and the Soviets that stayed neutral for a very brief time after the German defeat.

"In the summer of 1945, the U.S. Army Air Force carried out one of the most intense campaigns of city destruction in the history of the world. Sixty-eight cities in Japan were attacked and all of them were either partially or completely destroyed. An estimated 1.7 million people were made homeless, 300,000 were killed, and 750,000 were wounded. Sixty-six of these raids were carried out with conventional bombs, two with atomic bombs."

"The first of the conventional raids, a night attack on Tokyo on March 9-10, 1945, remains the single most destructive attack on a city in the history of war. Something like 16 square miles of the city were burned out. An estimated 120,000 Japanese lost their lives—the single highest death toll of any bombing attack on a city."

"We often imagine, because of the way the story is told, that the bombing of Hiroshima was far worse. We imagine that the number of people killed was off the charts. But if you graph the number of people killed in all 68 cities bombed in the summer of 1945, you find that Hiroshima was second in terms of civilian deaths. If you chart the number of square miles destroyed, you find that Hiroshima was fourth. If you chart the percentage of the city destroyed, Hiroshima was 17th. Hiroshima was clearly within the parameters of the conventional attacks carried out that summer."

Here just fkn read it yourself:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/
❤ Sly Succubus ❤ 2023 年 9 月 30 日 下午 12:11 
引用自 Raoul
引用自 RRW359
Care to enlighten us on a way to defeat them that wouldn't have resulted in more Chinese civilian deaths, a blockade that would have starved Japanese civilians, or the carnage on both sides plus the civilian deaths that would have resulted from Ketsugo?
What are you talking about the Japanese military was already on its last legs and they knew that even considering surrendering at the time even before the atom bombs were dropped, the only thing that kept them going was the BS lies of the military officials and the Soviets that stayed neutral for a very brief time after the German defeat.

"In the summer of 1945, the U.S. Army Air Force carried out one of the most intense campaigns of city destruction in the history of the world. Sixty-eight cities in Japan were attacked and all of them were either partially or completely destroyed. An estimated 1.7 million people were made homeless, 300,000 were killed, and 750,000 were wounded. Sixty-six of these raids were carried out with conventional bombs, two with atomic bombs."

"The first of the conventional raids, a night attack on Tokyo on March 9-10, 1945, remains the single most destructive attack on a city in the history of war. Something like 16 square miles of the city were burned out. An estimated 120,000 Japanese lost their lives—the single highest death toll of any bombing attack on a city."

"We often imagine, because of the way the story is told, that the bombing of Hiroshima was far worse. We imagine that the number of people killed was off the charts. But if you graph the number of people killed in all 68 cities bombed in the summer of 1945, you find that Hiroshima was second in terms of civilian deaths. If you chart the number of square miles destroyed, you find that Hiroshima was fourth. If you chart the percentage of the city destroyed, Hiroshima was 17th. Hiroshima was clearly within the parameters of the conventional attacks carried out that summer."

Here just fkn read it yourself:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/
Dude I read the link and laughed rather hard. Stalin who was never involved with the Pacific theater beat Japan? Ya by that logic Hitler killed himself because Finland told him his art was ugly.

We already went over the fire bombing and how the first bomb was indeed a warning to surrender, its called Force-A-Surrender and has been used throughout history long before the nuclear weapons were even invented.
RRW359 2023 年 9 月 30 日 下午 12:30 
引用自 Raoul
引用自 RRW359
Care to enlighten us on a way to defeat them that wouldn't have resulted in more Chinese civilian deaths, a blockade that would have starved Japanese civilians, or the carnage on both sides plus the civilian deaths that would have resulted from Ketsugo?
What are you talking about the Japanese military was already on its last legs and they knew that even considering surrendering at the time even before the atom bombs were dropped, the only thing that kept them going was the BS lies of the military officials and the Soviets that stayed neutral for a very brief time after the German defeat.

"In the summer of 1945, the U.S. Army Air Force carried out one of the most intense campaigns of city destruction in the history of the world. Sixty-eight cities in Japan were attacked and all of them were either partially or completely destroyed. An estimated 1.7 million people were made homeless, 300,000 were killed, and 750,000 were wounded. Sixty-six of these raids were carried out with conventional bombs, two with atomic bombs."

"The first of the conventional raids, a night attack on Tokyo on March 9-10, 1945, remains the single most destructive attack on a city in the history of war. Something like 16 square miles of the city were burned out. An estimated 120,000 Japanese lost their lives—the single highest death toll of any bombing attack on a city."

"We often imagine, because of the way the story is told, that the bombing of Hiroshima was far worse. We imagine that the number of people killed was off the charts. But if you graph the number of people killed in all 68 cities bombed in the summer of 1945, you find that Hiroshima was second in terms of civilian deaths. If you chart the number of square miles destroyed, you find that Hiroshima was fourth. If you chart the percentage of the city destroyed, Hiroshima was 17th. Hiroshima was clearly within the parameters of the conventional attacks carried out that summer."

Here just fkn read it yourself:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/
They weren't going to unconditionally surrender if it meant the emperor was likely to be killed and the Soviets didn't invade until after the second bomb was dropped, considering how many people died in Okanawa we had no idea how successful the Soviets would be until after they were successful. The bombs played a part as I doubt the Japanese people would see what the problem is with the Soviets joining the war, since multiple different branches of the Japanese government had to surrender in order for them to stop fighting and everyone thought they would have to be in it until the end.
最后由 RRW359 编辑于; 2023 年 9 月 30 日 下午 12:31
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所有讨论 > Steam 论坛 > Off Topic > 主题详情
发帖日期: 2023 年 9 月 29 日 下午 11:26
回复数: 133