全スレッド > Steam 掲示板 > Off Topic > トピックの詳細
Was the atomic bombing of Japan justified?
Yes it totally ended the WW2, but was it worth it? Yes it cost a lot of lives of innocent people. Japan wouldn't have given up without it. What do you think?
< >
61-75 / 133 のコメントを表示
Birds 2023年9月30日 3時37分 
Q-T_3.14.exe の投稿を引用:
Wasn't the nuclear bombing of Japan just the USA showing it's dong to the USSR?
News flash: The Soviets didn't ♥♥♥♥ their pants.
American... They got weird ways to flex.

That was actually the reactivation of the Yakuza, which had the effect of giving power back to the fascists as well as keeping it away from communists. In essence 'we don't care if we make another nazi germany as long as it stops you.' Although the US does claim it didn't know what it was doing when this happened and only wanted to murder communist teachers. Not give nazis guns.


The nuclear bomb being cold war-relevant was an after the fact justification made during the mid to late 70s when it was becoming clear that nukes were a thing of the past and only good for propaganda.
最近の変更はBirdsが行いました; 2023年9月30日 3時38分
Birds 2023年9月30日 3時40分 
Xero_Daxter の投稿を引用:
It was tragic. War is hell. Should it been dropped tho? Me personally I cannot say but if I had to choose I would take the “utilitarianism ethical perspective” and say the moral choice is that which generate the “greatest good for the greatest number”. It is said that more lives would of been lost if they didn’t and was forced to do a land invasion.

Only because American lives would be included in the calculation.

Comes off a little one-sided and selfish from that perspective; Japanese lives are lost either way.
Birds の投稿を引用:
Xero_Daxter の投稿を引用:
It was tragic. War is hell. Should it been dropped tho? Me personally I cannot say but if I had to choose I would take the “utilitarianism ethical perspective” and say the moral choice is that which generate the “greatest good for the greatest number”. It is said that more lives would of been lost if they didn’t and was forced to do a land invasion.

Only because American lives would be included in the calculation.

Comes off a little one-sided and selfish from that perspective; Japanese lives are lost either way.
They would of fought until the end and more lives for both sides would be lost.

I’m gonna take the “ethical perspective of double effect”. According to the principle of double effect, sometimes it is permissible to cause a harm bringing about a good result even though it would not be permissible to cause such a harm as a means to bringing about the same good end..
Birds 2023年9月30日 3時52分 
Xero_Daxter の投稿を引用:
Birds の投稿を引用:

Only because American lives would be included in the calculation.

Comes off a little one-sided and selfish from that perspective; Japanese lives are lost either way.
They would of fought until the end and more lives for both sides would be lost.

I’m gonna take the “ethical perspective of double effect”. According to the principle of double effect, sometimes it is permissible to cause a harm bringing about a good result even though it would not be permissible to cause such a harm as a means to bringing about the same good end..

Really? Japan was already considering surrendering, specifically because of territorial losses to Russia. All the US really had to do was sit tight; they didn't even need to run bombing campaigns really. Which, as discussed, only served to encourage resistance.

One of the failings of double effect is that it's almost always used to justify heinous actions nobody wanted, under the guise of a good end that never came.
Birds の投稿を引用:
Xero_Daxter の投稿を引用:
They would of fought until the end and more lives for both sides would be lost.

I’m gonna take the “ethical perspective of double effect”. According to the principle of double effect, sometimes it is permissible to cause a harm bringing about a good result even though it would not be permissible to cause such a harm as a means to bringing about the same good end..

Really? Japan was already considering surrendering, specifically because of territorial losses to Russia. All the US really had to do was sit tight; they didn't even need to run bombing campaigns really. Which, as discussed, only served to encourage resistance.

One of the failings of double effect is that it's almost always used to justify heinous actions nobody wanted, under the guise of a good end that never came.
I’m not a historian so I had no idea they were gonna surrender. All I am saying is if they were still gonna fight if the bomb wasn’t dropped then it would of been the better choice to do so. 5 lives is greater than 1.

But if they knew they were gonna surrender anyways then it was unnecessary.

In the end… I never really liked war. The United States helped Japan and Japan is now a thriving country. Lives were lost and it was tragic. I’m try to be as moral as I can be.
Zeno 2023年9月30日 4時00分 
Ronny の投稿を引用:
Yes it totally ended the WW2, but was it worth it? Yes it cost a lot of lives of innocent people. Japan wouldn't have given up without it. What do you think?

No it was not, only patriotic uneducated Americans will claim it was.
Zeno 2023年9月30日 4時01分 
Xero_Daxter の投稿を引用:
Birds の投稿を引用:

Only because American lives would be included in the calculation.

Comes off a little one-sided and selfish from that perspective; Japanese lives are lost either way.
They would of fought until the end and more lives for both sides would be lost.

I’m gonna take the “ethical perspective of double effect”. According to the principle of double effect, sometimes it is permissible to cause a harm bringing about a good result even though it would not be permissible to cause such a harm as a means to bringing about the same good end..

According to this logic, you can literally justify every massacre and mass destruction in entire human history.

Sentences starting with " They would have ... " and ending with " cost more lives.. "

Is the sentence that makes people hit the red button, wipe out entire cities and so on.

Sorry, but this is just stupid American ideology at its finest.
TillEulenspiegel の投稿を引用:
Xero_Daxter の投稿を引用:
They would of fought until the end and more lives for both sides would be lost.

I’m gonna take the “ethical perspective of double effect”. According to the principle of double effect, sometimes it is permissible to cause a harm bringing about a good result even though it would not be permissible to cause such a harm as a means to bringing about the same good end..

According to this logic, you can literally justify every massacre and mass destruction in entire human history.

Sentences starting with " They would have ... " and ending with " cost more lives.. "

Is the sentence that makes people hit the red button, wipe out entire cities and so on.

Sorry, but this is just stupid American ideology at its finest.
What would have you done if you’re “morally superior” to me? That comment sounded like a jab directed towards me.
Birds 2023年9月30日 4時05分 
Xero_Daxter の投稿を引用:
I’m not a historian so I had no idea they were gonna surrender. All I am saying is if they were still gonna fight if the bomb wasn’t dropped then it would of been the better choice to do so. 5 lives is greater than 1.

But if they knew they were gonna surrender anyways then it was unnecessary.

In the end… I never really liked war. The United States helped Japan and Japan is now a thriving country. Lives were lost and it was tragic. I’m try to be as moral as I can be.


They already surrendered before the Nagasaki bomb dropped. 3 whole days before an 18 hour bombing mission.

The US didn't care if they surrendered anyway and assumed it was a lie, dropping the bomb because they read once in Japan's private communique (via british intelligence) that they didn't believe they had two bombs and had doubts that they were real at all. Something the US barely even considered when it dropped the second, so eager was it to prove how great its factories were. The only reason they were even in the war, realistically.

There's no version of their reasoning where moral calculus entered the equation except after the fact.

Japan's concessions to the US have made it a dependent nation, who is allied to an empire halfway across the planet who couldn't stop China from conquering them if they wanted to.
Nope, it was a war crime.

Japan were on the brink of defeat before the bombs.

US just wanted an excuse to test their new weapon.
Anywho… my views are always changing. I’m actually doing my fact check right now if Japan was gonna surrender before the bombings.
Pretty sure Japan was gonna surrender and they dropped bombs anyways.
最近の変更はDracoco OwOが行いました; 2023年9月30日 4時10分
Birds 2023年9月30日 4時11分 
𝓒𝓪𝓻𝓻𝓸𝓽 🥕 の投稿を引用:
Nope, it was a war crime.

Japan were on the brink of defeat before the bombs.

US just wanted an excuse to test their new weapon.

Nuh-uh the US had all these reasons, such as

1. If they simply vaporized the captured Imperial Navy Japan could say it was a trick.
2. If they blew up the moon Japan could say it was a trick.

Xero_Daxter の投稿を引用:
Anywho… my views are always changing. I’m actually doing my fact check right now if Japan was gonna surrender before the bombings.

The PM wanted to and there was broad support from all of the minor factions. Hirohito had been trying to surrender for the better part of 6 months by then as well.

Warhakws with nothing left to lose were literally the only people who wanted to keep fighting.
最近の変更はBirdsが行いました; 2023年9月30日 4時13分
Zeno 2023年9月30日 4時12分 
Xero_Daxter の投稿を引用:
Birds の投稿を引用:

Really? Japan was already considering surrendering, specifically because of territorial losses to Russia. All the US really had to do was sit tight; they didn't even need to run bombing campaigns really. Which, as discussed, only served to encourage resistance.

One of the failings of double effect is that it's almost always used to justify heinous actions nobody wanted, under the guise of a good end that never came.
I’m not a historian so I had no idea they were gonna surrender. All I am saying is if they were still gonna fight if the bomb wasn’t dropped then it would of been the better choice to do so. 5 lives is greater than 1.

But if they knew they were gonna surrender anyways then it was unnecessary.

In the end… I never really liked war. The United States helped Japan and Japan is now a thriving country. Lives were lost and it was tragic. I’m try to be as moral as I can be.

Dumbest logic ever.

So even if they would not have surrendered or been close to the verge of defeat, bombing and polluting entire cities with weapons of mass destruction, wiping out all the civilians in there as well, is absolutely nothing that even affects the effectivity of the Japanese army. Zero. This is a war crime since such a deadly strike against innocent lives is not strategically relevant for the victory of the war.

Unless they would have bombed every inch of Japan, nukes were just not the way to win the war in the first place.

Them being defeated anyway and surrendering anyway, makes this clearly a war crime anyway, there is no option or discussion about this.

The US is a war crime country that killed more innocent lives that the nazis and communists did together, a nation causing proxy wars, blackmail and domination in all possible ways and in fact the only country on the planet with such huge and various military campaigns running all at the same time.

Its a war mongering country, thats all it is and US citizens like you are raised and indoctrinated to defend their disgusting politics and cover up the blood on their hands. Obviously the US has to indoctrinate its citizens otherwise everyone there would live with permanent guilt and get depressed due to their tax money being used for mass murder.

Period.
Birds 2023年9月30日 4時14分 
TillEulenspiegel の投稿を引用:
Xero_Daxter の投稿を引用:
I’m not a historian so I had no idea they were gonna surrender. All I am saying is if they were still gonna fight if the bomb wasn’t dropped then it would of been the better choice to do so. 5 lives is greater than 1.

But if they knew they were gonna surrender anyways then it was unnecessary.

In the end… I never really liked war. The United States helped Japan and Japan is now a thriving country. Lives were lost and it was tragic. I’m try to be as moral as I can be.

Dumbest logic ever.

So even if they would not have surrendered or been close to the verge of defeat, bombing and polluting entire cities with weapons of mass destruction, wiping out all the civilians in there as well, is absolutely nothing that even affects the effectivity of the Japanese army. Zero. This is a war crime since such a deadly strike against innocent lives is not strategically relevant for the victory of the war.

Unless they would have bombed every inch of Japan, nukes were just not the way to win the war in the first place.

Them being defeated anyway and surrendering anyway, makes this clearly a war crime anyway, there is no option or discussion about this.

The US is a war crime country that killed more innocent lives that the nazis and communists did together, a nation causing proxy wars, blackmail and domination in all possible ways and in fact the only country on the planet with such huge and various military campaigns running all at the same time.

Its a war mongering country, thats all it is and US citizens like you are raised and indoctrinated to defend their disgusting politics and cover up the blood on their hands. Obviously the US has to indoctrinate its citizens otherwise everyone there would live with permanent guilt and get depressed due to their tax money being used for mass murder.

Period.

What about Russia's warcrimes?
< >
61-75 / 133 のコメントを表示
ページ毎: 1530 50

全スレッド > Steam 掲示板 > Off Topic > トピックの詳細
投稿日: 2023年9月29日 23時26分
投稿数: 133