Why patriots tend to dislike their own country the most?

[Dom]

Something rather interesting I've noticed is that many people who claim to be 'patriots', tend to be the ones that dislike and criticize their own country the most. They criticize all the institutions of their own country, want everything to change, they think that their country's got it all wrong.

Yet, for some odd reason, they say they are patriots and "proud of their country" ?

I wonder why is that..? It doesn't really make sense to me. If a person truly is patriotic, and proud of their own country, it seems illogical that they would only find things to complain about about their country.

Or is it more like "I'm proud of the utopia inside my head as to what the country should be like" ? Because if that is the case, then one could definitely argue they're not really a patriot, or proud of the country in question.

What are your thoughts?

[Crazy Tiger]

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

In my mind, pride and love are separate things. Usually when people are proud of someone or something, there is something that has been done, to be proud of. Whereas love can be unconditional.

Therefore I have a hard time connecting pride to something people constantly criticize and complain about.

Are they really separate, or are they tied to each other? Can you be proud of someone or something that you really dislike or even hate?

[Here is my card]

How much you are putting emphasis or weigh on "pride?"

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

If a person truly is patriotic, and proud of their own country, it seems illogical that they would only find things to complain about about their country.

What sort of a definition you are after?

If one acknowledges that ones country isn't perfect but the one is content and happy living in one, couldn't it be "pride" as a feeling that the one could feel in living there?

Pride is sometimes difficult to define. For me at least. I could say that I am proud of Johnny Depp even when he has the problems we all know.

[Dom]

Crazy Tiger eredeti hozzászólása:

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

In my mind, pride and love are separate things. Usually when people are proud of someone or something, there is something that has been done, to be proud of. Whereas love can be unconditional.

Therefore I have a hard time connecting pride to something people constantly criticize and complain about.

Are they really separate, or are they tied to each other? Can you be proud of someone or something that you really dislike or even hate?

I guess you can love something and be disappointed in that something.
But I don't know if it's possible, in most cases, to be both disappointed and proud, at the same time. Those feelings often tend to contradict each other.

[Crazy Tiger]

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

Crazy Tiger eredeti hozzászólása:

Are they really separate, or are they tied to each other? Can you be proud of someone or something that you really dislike or even hate?

I guess you can love something and be disappointed in that something.
But I don't know if it's possible, in most cases, to be both disappointed and proud, at the same time. Those feelings often tend to contradict each other.

You can be both proud and disappointed in someone/something.Just as a patriot can be proud of their country in general, but still disappointed in certain decisions the government makes.

You're trying to use your labelmaker too strict.

[skOsH♥]

I think they know how they could improve it, but anything short of getting lucky with legislation that helps the people is what most can hope for. Key word, hope, because it never actually benefits the people.

[Dom]

Crazy Tiger eredeti hozzászólása:

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

I guess you can love something and be disappointed in that something.
But I don't know if it's possible, in most cases, to be both disappointed and proud, at the same time. Those feelings often tend to contradict each other.

You can be both proud and disappointed in someone/something.Just as a patriot can be proud of their country in general, but still disappointed in certain decisions the government makes.

You're trying to use your labelmaker too strict.

Maybe if it were just certain matters...
but there are a lot of people who find more to complain than to actually give credit for. In that case many people would question if their pride is actually reasonable, or perhaps it's fake.
Or not necessarily fake but perhaps it stems from some false image that isn't based on reality.

[Pierce Dalton]

Usually, these people are proud of their past, not present.

But it's all bs, countries only exist in the human mind.

[Raoul]

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

Something rather interesting I've noticed is that many people who claim to be 'patriots', tend to be the ones that dislike and criticize their own country the most.

I think you've answered your question right there because most people are patriots at heart anyway and don't need to go around claiming that title..
Also what criticisms did you hear, tell us?

[Dom]

Raoul eredeti hozzászólása:

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

Something rather interesting I've noticed is that many people who claim to be 'patriots', tend to be the ones that dislike and criticize their own country the most.

I think you've answered your question right there because most people are patriots at heart anyway and don't need to go around claiming that title..
Also what criticisms did you hear, tell us?

There are many examples, perhaps the most extreme one being how I hear some people saying that they are patriots yet they 'hate the government'.

My general understanding/view is that government is the country - if there is no government and those structures that come along with the government, then there's no country.
So the idea that people love the country but hate the government is something that doesn't sit well with me.
Nothing would be left of the country without the government that maintains it.

[HypersleepyNaputunia]

you can love california- the beaches, hollywood, yosemite, the car lifestyle but you can also hate the weirdness and perversions it makes like badgers are fish, extreme restrictions on things, and strange idealogies. just like with any country there is good and bad. But you can still have patriotism to it

[Chunk Norris ☯]

Patriot is just a label, what is the definition of patriot. A person who vigoriously loves their country and is willing to defend it against enemies.

Well irregardless of titles I think in America there's multiple kinds of patriots. The Antifa/BLM member might not call themselves Patriots but they are fighting for their own "utopia" version of American, just like people who would call themselves American patriots are likely fighting for their version of utopia. And both sides have drastically different ideas of what utopia is.

And in both cases people are fighting for ideals. BLM/Antifa want a high regimentated marxist society, whereas Patriots typically want a "Live and Let Live" society with high individual freedom.

[76561198356019466]

KyokoKirigiri eredeti hozzászólása:

...yosemite...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tExW_ivF80A

[Raoul]

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

Raoul eredeti hozzászólása:

I think you've answered your question right there because most people are patriots at heart anyway and don't need to go around claiming that title..
Also what criticisms did you hear, tell us?

There are many examples, perhaps the most extreme one being how I hear some people saying that they are patriots yet they 'hate the government'.

My general understanding/view is that government is the country - if there is no government and those structures that come along with the government, then there's no country.
So the idea that people love the country but hate the government is something that doesn't sit well with me. Nothing would be left without the government.

Ohh okay, well I disagree because being a true patriot to me means holding extreme accountability for the lives and quality of life for the people of that country so naturally would have to be very critical about a government who may be beholden to corporations or a ruling class that then affects peoples lives negatively. I'm not talking about anarchy and getting rid of the government completely that's nonsensical and completely different, I think you'd be mixing things if that is what you thought. There may be good and bad criticisms but I doubt anyone with any common sense to want to get rid of the government completely.

[Dom]

Raoul eredeti hozzászólása:

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

There are many examples, perhaps the most extreme one being how I hear some people saying that they are patriots yet they 'hate the government'.

My general understanding/view is that government is the country - if there is no government and those structures that come along with the government, then there's no country.
So the idea that people love the country but hate the government is something that doesn't sit well with me. Nothing would be left without the government.

Ohh okay, well I disagree because being a true patriot to me means holding extreme accountability for the lives and quality of life for the people of that country so naturally would have to be very critical about a government who may be beholden to corporations or a ruling class that then affects peoples lives negatively. I'm not talking about anarchy and getting rid of the government completely that's nonsensical and completely different, I think you'd be mixing things if that is what you thought. There may be good and bad criticisms but I doubt anyone with any common sense to want to get rid of the government completely.

I have a somewhat different view, I think that if someone would like to completely change the direction of their country, then it seems very much contradictory that they would be proud of that country when you consider the current state of it.

And if you have a country that is, say, a heaven for ruling class or corporations, and you find that deeply immoral and something that truly goes against your values, yet the country keeps doing that year after year, I don't see logical conclusions for such person to be proud of their country.

[Rumpelcrutchskin]

There is patriot and then there is ultra-nationalist.