Win2000Fan 2023 年 5 月 17 日 上午 11:15
Get a VPN, yes or no?
What are your thoughts on VPN's? I have been thinking of getting one for my family. However, I am not completely convinced getting one is a good idea. I have read here lately some have been raided by the police and some people are still being discovered even though they are using a VPN. I do not torrent download but it's more of a security thing for me as I do not want someone spying on me. Another issue I have is the bombardment of VPN ads and reviewers being bought out for said VPN company making their recommendations useless. What are your thoughts, broth pro and con? Thanks
引用自 10Transistor
Sooooo, its starting to look like getting a VPN is a bad idea unless someone comes along and proves VPN's usefulness better than what has been said so far.

Unless people are overly paranoid... and lots are ( and probably for a good reason because they're doing something they shouldn't )... the only thing a VPN is good for is bypassing things websites have put on them ~for a good reason~ and are trying to do something they shouldn't.

Don't do something one shouldn't... and there's no real need for a VPN for general day to day web use.
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nohuman 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 5:53 
引用自 Nekoborg
引用自 BlackBloodRum
Except for one thing: VPN's do not give you access to the "dark web". Real child predators do not use VPN's for this purpose.

What you're thinking of is TOR and I2P. These create an alternative network which cannot be accessed by regular connections or even by VPN's. These are the "dark web".

It looks like you've been taking everything the government is telling you and believing it all.

Why would someone not want to believe everything the government is telling them?

Are you a systems critic or dissident who believes in conspiracy theory?
Transitions effortlessly from strawman fallacy to character defamation.

smh.
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:01 
引用自 Nekoborg
引用自

There is something called parenting.

If a child is accessing the dark web and doing weird stuff, that's the fault of the parent, not the internet.

There's weird stuff outside the internet...actually outside...and it's more dangerous.

The parent is supposed to protect the child first, not the state.

No one calls the police and says "Hey, I'm busy. Watch my child."

If VPN providers did not exist, were against the law or were required to have ALL their internet traffic unencrypted and routed through law enforcement agencies then it would aid to stop criminals from clandestine internet activity. This ranges from buying and selling all from drugs to weapons, criminal communication, planning terror. Child predators would get exposed if they view or download child porn from servers located in corrupt countries.

We need to give up some rights and freedoms to be safe. There is nothing authoritarian nor totalitarian about submitting and conforming to the wishes of the NSA, CIA, FBI or special units of police.


You are within your right to give up those rights if you want to.

I think everyone else would rather not trust government agencies that have been caught experimenting on their own civilians.
Irene ❤ 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:02 
Don't have to. VPN is slow.
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:05 
引用自 Nekoborg
引用自 BlackBloodRum
Except for one thing: VPN's do not give you access to the "dark web". Real child predators do not use VPN's for this purpose.

What you're thinking of is TOR and I2P. These create an alternative network which cannot be accessed by regular connections or even by VPN's. These are the "dark web".

It looks like you've been taking everything the government is telling you and believing it all.

Why would someone not want to believe everything the government is telling them?

Are you a systems critic or dissident who believes in conspiracy theory?

Because this[allthatsinteresting.com] is the government you're trusting.
最後修改者:Boblin the Goblin; 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:07
ʙᴜɴ.ᴇ 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:09 
VPNs are real nice, I use mine a lot for viewing videos not available in my country for some reason and the US version of Disney+

Also use it to connect to game servers outside of my country when I can't region select otherwise.

Just a few things to note, you need to look for a VPN that does not log, some VPNs log your data, websites you visit, etc and not only is that a breach of your privacy but if you happen to stumble onto a dodgy site or two you get records of visiting that site that law enforcement can easily obtain to prosecute you.

VPNs without logs don't save anything you do, so theres no way to know what sites you visit or what sort of activity you get up to with your VPN legal or otherwise.
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:09 
引用自 Nekoborg
引用自 BlackBloodRum
No, I'm someone who knows how technology works. I understand the underlying technology. Politicians are often misinformed and working for their own agenda.

And the acts you speak of, selling drugs, child abuse, various other criminal activity do not take place on the public web, at least. Not the serious cases. They take place on TOR and I2P, on "websites" which can only be accessed by using an onion URL for example. It doesn't have a ".com" or ".net".

That means that it is not VPN's that are being used for those purposes, it is TOR and I2P. You even said it yourself it's on the "dark web". But VPN's are not the dark web.

All I'm saying is that if you're going to target something with laws like that, then you need to target the correct thing. Public web monitoring and VPN bans won't do diddly to protect children nor prevent crime.

The worst crimes that typically takes place over a VPN are:
[li]
  • Torrents
  • Journalists / Activists
  • Whisteblowers[/li]

    Beyond that, more serious crime goes far deeper than a simple VPN.

Then OR and I2P, on "websites" which can only be accessed by using an onion URL also need to be against the law or disabled.

Maybe computers which has safeguards in place that can't be removed or bypassed, ROM that is embedded or encoded in every kind of hardware and software. Systems that prevent homemade computers to be able to access the internet or dark web. In fact the dark web needs to be disabled.

Make it next to impossible for criminals and terrorists to continue their clandestine activity using computers.


What you are describing is parallel to what North Korea currently does with its citizens.
BlackBloodGhost 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:17 
引用自 Nekoborg
引用自 BlackBloodRum
No, I'm someone who knows how technology works. I understand the underlying technology. Politicians are often misinformed and working for their own agenda.

And the acts you speak of, selling drugs, child abuse, various other criminal activity do not take place on the public web, at least. Not the serious cases. They take place on TOR and I2P, on "websites" which can only be accessed by using an onion URL for example. It doesn't have a ".com" or ".net".

That means that it is not VPN's that are being used for those purposes, it is TOR and I2P. You even said it yourself it's on the "dark web". But VPN's are not the dark web.

All I'm saying is that if you're going to target something with laws like that, then you need to target the correct thing. Public web monitoring and VPN bans won't do diddly to protect children nor prevent crime.

The worst crimes that typically takes place over a VPN are:
[li]
  • Torrents
  • Journalists / Activists
  • Whisteblowers[/li]

    Beyond that, more serious crime goes far deeper than a simple VPN.

Then OR and I2P, on "websites" which can only be accessed by using an onion URL also need to be against the law or disabled.

Maybe computers which has safeguards in place that can't be removed or bypassed, ROM that is embedded or encoded in every kind of hardware and software. Systems that prevent homemade computers to be able to access the internet or dark web. In fact the dark web needs to be disabled.

Make it next to impossible for criminals and terrorists to continue their clandestine activity using computers.
So let me get this straight, you believe you can stop criminals who are currently breaking the law, by implementing a new law?

That's what you're saying? That suddenly, a new law will stop them doing their bad activities?

They would simply continue to use old technology or technology from other countries which do not implement those protections you speak of, thus by-passing any law that is put in place.

On the topic of child abuse, this is one that's often dragged out most often "The free internet enables child abuse". But let me ask you a simple question, who is it that is actually abusing those children and taking those pictures? Who is really harming those children?

In the majority of cases it's the parents, either one of, or both. In many cases it may also be a very close relative. In almost every case it is somebody who has physical access to the child.

Now, if you cut off all means of private communication where that child may try to reach out for help (say encrypted chat) then they no longer have a way to get help. After all, if the traffic cannot be encrypted then the abusers could also intercept the messages and prevent the child from seeking the help they need.

Banning things will often do more harm than good, and very rarely achieves the claimed goal. If you want to help children, then you need to stop the people who are close to them who are causing the abuse in the first place.

Even if there was no internet access, without stopping the abuser then child would still be abused.
最後修改者:BlackBloodGhost; 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:18
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:17 
引用自 Nekoborg
引用自 SlowMango

Because this[allthatsinteresting.com] is the government you're trusting.

I am unable to read that, it is too small.

Please use normal sized text if you want me to read what you write.


If you're on a computer, hold down Cntrl and scroll with your mouse wheel. If on mobile, pinch your fingers in your screen and spread them outward.

That's how you zoom.
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:20 
引用自 Nekoborg
引用自 SlowMango


What you are describing is parallel to what North Korea currently does with its citizens.

Trying to combat crime has nothing to do with N.Korea nor is it in anyway comparable.


You aren't trying to combat crime. What you describe is removing the rights of citizens and allows a government(who has used its people as rest subjects and covered it up) complete control over what is supposed to be a free exchange of information.
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:20 
引用自 Eld3r
引用自 SlowMango


If you're on a computer, hold down Cntrl and scroll with your mouse wheel. If on mobile, pinch your fingers in your screen and spread them outward.

That's how you zoom.
if on desktop using steam that does not work


The link should open in his default browser on either device.
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:21 
引用自 Plaid
VPN's are a crime. Anyone who uses a VPN should go to prison for 20 years.


So journalists who are exposing government corruption should be jailed for doing so?
tyl0413 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:37 
If you think using a VPN alone will help your online privacy without changing any of your habits you're very wrong. There are many far more beneficial things you can do first like running adblock, switching off Chrome, getting off social media, not giving out your personal information and so on which also cost no money and just a little effort. Just using a VPN will not prevent any hackers or data harvesting corporations from getting your info and abusing it just like they already do.
Infact using a bad VPN like Nord or any of the ones that constantly buy propaganda advertising is detrimental to your privacy, they have been caught selling and abusing the data multiple times, so you might as well burn your money instead of giving it to scammers.

Basically if you need to ask if you need a VPN you do not, please don't buy a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ one that is completely useless. That being said if you do practice good online privacy a VPN can be a useful tool when a trustworthy one is used right, I have Proton on my PC always on for everything except online gaming, don't like the latency impact + some ♥♥♥♥♥♥ games like COD may detect and punish you for it, otherwise I don't notice a speed impact and I trust them more than my ISP. Also nice side effect having all sites default to english or being able to bypass geo-blocks on YT and stuff. That's the only use really for most people.

If you still wanna check some out Mullvad, Proton and IVPN are some providers with the cleanest track record.
skOsH♥ 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 6:50 
引用自 Nekoborg
引用自

There is something called parenting.

If a child is accessing the dark web and doing weird stuff, that's the fault of the parent, not the internet.

There's weird stuff outside the internet...actually outside...and it's more dangerous.

The parent is supposed to protect the child first, not the state.

No one calls the police and says "Hey, I'm busy. Watch my child."

If VPN providers did not exist, were against the law or were required to have ALL their internet traffic unencrypted and routed through law enforcement agencies then it would aid to stop criminals from clandestine internet activity. This ranges from buying and selling all from drugs to weapons, criminal communication, planning terror. Child predators would get exposed if they view or download child porn from servers located in corrupt countries.

We need to give up some rights and freedoms to be safe. There is nothing authoritarian nor totalitarian about submitting and conforming to the wishes of the NSA, CIA, FBI or special units of police.

I honestly cannot tell if you're trolling or not. The amount of crime that is committed on the dark web is minimal at best. The amount of actual crime that affects people is a million-fold comparatively, outside the internet.

How do you not feel safe on the internet? Do the actions of a small minority of people who decide to buy drugs affect you? They're getting high, they're not trying to get other people on drugs. Your typical drug dealer is likely buying from a source that's not on the internet. We're not talking about people moving large quantities of drugs online. This doesn't happen. If you don't already know that the dark net is 99.999% honeytraps set by these agencies in the first place, then now you do, and now you don't need to wish for authoritarian rules on the internet. Seriously...if you think it's so easy to do, go order a kilogram of cocaine on the dark web, and enjoy getting busted, lmao.

Try to hire an assassin on the dark web? Congratulations, you just contacted someone who is undercover.

Literally none of what you have proposed, makes sense. Making tor browser illegal, is something either you, or someone else, also suggested.

That browser is literally used by those three letter agencies, to do their jobs, like send email, and encrypt their traffic.
nohuman 2023 年 5 月 17 日 下午 7:22 
引用自 Nekoborg
引用自

I honestly cannot tell if you're trolling or not. The amount of crime that is committed on the dark web is minimal at best. The amount of actual crime that affects people is a million-fold comparatively, outside the internet.

How do you not feel safe on the internet? Do the actions of a small minority of people who decide to buy drugs affect you? They're getting high, they're not trying to get other people on drugs. Your typical drug dealer is likely buying from a source that's not on the internet. We're not talking about people moving large quantities of drugs online. This doesn't happen. If you don't already know that the dark net is 99.999% honeytraps set by these agencies in the first place, then now you do, and now you don't need to wish for authoritarian rules on the internet. Seriously...if you think it's so easy to do, go order a kilogram of cocaine on the dark web, and enjoy getting busted, lmao.

Try to hire an assassin on the dark web? Congratulations, you just contacted someone who is undercover.

Literally none of what you have proposed, makes sense. Making tor browser illegal, is something either you, or someone else, also suggested.

That browser is literally used by those three letter agencies, to do their jobs, like send email, and encrypt their traffic.

I still remember all the news about sites that are found on the dark web whom sell almost anything that is against the law. Journalists would test if it was legit and were able to not only document this criminal activity but were able to get these things shipped or delivered using crypto currency. They were even able to contact criminals who provided services. Then they contacted police and handed over the things and informed on the service providers. This helped get some criminals arrested and a few sites infiltrated and shut down. Silk Road was one such site.

I am not naive and know crime will always exist because criminals often find new ways to continue. What matters is not making it easy for criminals and stopping some of them.

Some of the folk who posted counter arguments to some of the things I posted brought up some valid points.
Sort of like having guns for everyone? Right argument, wrong subject. lol. ;)
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張貼日期: 2023 年 5 月 17 日 上午 11:15
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